Could a felon legally possess a circa 1898 Mauser?

[steadyrock]

Hypothetical question: could a California resident convicted of a felony in California or any other state legally possess a ca. 1898 vintage Mauser? I could probably find this info in the PC as I'm sure the crux of the question revolves around whether that rifle would be considered a "firearm" or an "antique". I know there is a special designation for firearms older than about 100 years. I thought it would be more interesting to get expert opinions here, however. Thoughts?

No, I am not a felon. This is strictly hypothetical.

[paul0660]

I think so, because as you noted they are not firearms.

However, most "98" Mausers were built after 1898. The date of manufacture, not the model number, is what counts.............you probably were aware of that.

[EMT John]

That's something I would call BATFE about.

[edwardm]

On way out the door, but see PC 12020(b)(7).

I think so, because as you noted they are not firearms.

However, most "98" Mausers were built after 1898. The date of manufacture, not the model number, is what counts.............you probably were aware of that.

[Oceanbob]

wow..good points..but a convicted FELON cannot possess Ammunition.

So what will you shoot out of your NON-GUN?

Bob

[paul0660]

On way out the door, but see PC 12020(b)(7).

Looks like that refers to curio and relics, not things no longer considered firearms, but I know what you mean.

Oceanbob, as usual, you are right on point.

[Mssr. Eleganté]

There are no Federal restrictions on felons possessing Mauser rifles made before January 1, 1899 because rifles that old are not considered "firearms" under Federal law. As was mentioned above, there are Federal restrictions on felons possessing ammo that will fire out of an 1898 Mauser. If a felon actually wants to shoot an "antique" firearm without violating Federal law he would have to shoot a muzzle loader.

"Antique" firearms are considered firearms under most sections of California law. So a felon would be prohibited from possessing an 1898 built Mauser or a muzzle loader within California.

[zhyla]

wow..good points..but a convicted FELON cannot possess Ammunition.

So what will you shoot out of your NON-GUN?

1898 non-ammunition of course! (j/k)

[jamesob]

^ correct. Look up the definition of a firearm under California law and you will see it's a nogo here.

[gun toting monkeyboy]

^ correct. Look up the definition of a firearm under California law and you will see it's a nogo here.

^This^

If antiques were kosher as non-firearms here in CA, we would be able to concealed carry with pre-1898 firearms without any license. But they fall into the same trap as black powder firearms. They are not weapons as far as the Feds are concerned, but the State has other ideas.

-Mb

(edit) removed question that was answered in another post.

[steadyrock]

^ correct. Look up the definition of a firearm under California law and you will see it's a nogo here.

I knew that the definition of "firearm" versus "antique" (as it could apply in this context) would be the answer to this riddle, I just didn't know what that was and didn't know if there were any additional special "gotcha"s such as that "antique" being considered a "firearm" under certain circumstances - sounds like it's not anything other than a "firearm" in CA, so you are right that nullifies the whole issue. Thanks for answering the question I was really asking.

[luckystrike]

California has its own definitoin of what is a firearm if I recall correctly. I forget exactly what it said but it was something that (by my understanding) uses any propellant such as a c02 cartridge. I think even the kimber pepper blaster is considered a firearm.

[Mssr. Eleganté]

California has its own definitoin of what is a firearm if I recall correctly. I forget exactly what it said but it was something that (by my understanding) uses any propellant such as a c02 cartridge. I think even the kimber pepper blaster is considered a firearm.

There are some cities that classify spring and CO2 powered devices as "firearms", but California law requires an "explosion or other form of combustion"

12001. (b) As used in this title, "firearm" means any device, designed to be used as a weapon, from which is expelled through a barrel a projectile by the force of any explosion or other form of combustion.

I believe the Kimber Pepper Blaster is problematic because of a separate law banning "tear gas" weapons that use anything other than an aerosol spray. It also uses an explosion, and some people fear that the pepper medium could be considered a "projectile".

[edwardm]

Like I said, I was running out the door. (b)(5) was the relevant chunk I wanted to point people to:

(5) Any antique firearm. For purposes of this section, "antique
firearm" means any firearm not designed or redesigned for using
rimfire or conventional center fire ignition with fixed ammunition
and manufactured in or before 1898 (including any matchlock,
flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system or
replica thereof, whether actually manufactured before or after the
year 1898) and also any firearm using fixed ammunition manufactured
in or before 1898, for which ammunition is no longer manufactured in
the United States and is not readily available in the ordinary
channels of commercial trade.

The 98's were designed to use conventional center fire ignition ammunition.

And the hits go on, since that chunk is limited to 'section', not 'part' or 'title'.

California Penal Code:


12001. As used in this title, "firearm" has the meaning provided in
subdivision (a) of Section 16520.

(Note that PC 12000 and following is also known as Title 2 of Part 4 of the Penal Code)

16520. (a) As used in this part, "firearm" means any device,
designed to be used as a weapon, from which is expelled through a
barrel, a projectile by the force of any explosion or other form of
combustion.

(Note that there are other definitions further on in this section, calling out frames/receivers and particular areas of applicability as well as other devices considered 'firearms'.)

I'm going back to bed.

[EMT John]

If it's that importaint to own and shoot the firearm just petition the DOJ and BATFE to allow you to own long guns for hunting purposes or something.