Ideas about enlisting other states to put pressure on CA

[NorCalAthlete]

First of all, I'm extremely thankful we have people IN and OUT of this state fighting for our rights here. I don't want to be too long-winded here since this was just a random thought I had, but....

I see a lot of "write your Senator for this" "Sign this petition for that" etc. Would it be feasible or helpful in any way to start a campaign to OTHER states' leadership and ask them to put some pressure on CA's leadership? Maybe something relatively simple and put in layman's terms, not necessarily a massive manifesto or anything, but just pointing out some of the idiocy and illogic of our firearm laws here. For example, "featureless" builds vs a pistol grip. A pistol grip doesn't really do anything to change the functionality of a rifle...it's like saying cars with certain steering wheels are limited to 100 hp, but if you get THIS steering wheel you can go ahead and drop a 500 hp engine in it.

I think a KISS short and sweet letter (to be followed by more in depth campaigns) to other states to put pressure on CA to fall in line with the rest of the country in regards to gun laws has the potential to be beneficial. What say you guys and gals?

[meaty-btz]

The simple, california disarms its population and prevents it from exercising its right to self-defense. As such California Legislature is legislating Rape, Robbery, Assault, Battery, Burglary against it's own citizens.

So, take a gun friendly state like Arizona. Have their health and public safety department issue warnings to all residents of Arizona stating that travel to California is risky, dangerous, and might result in them being jailed for actions of self defense that would be legal in their home state. Also, as students cannot own guns in their dorms nor carry on campus all High School Seniors are warned against going to a California University due to risk of being made into a victim or being jailed for exercising their right to self-defense.
Make the publications major and state wide and from a collation of gun friendly states.

Aka marginalize california as a crime ridden (it is) victim making, criminal making state that should be avoided if at all possible. Money makes the world go round, this hits in the tourist pocketbooks. It is also public mud in the face of california politicians.

Add to the publications and media campaign showing them releasing prisoners early back into the public environment. Show the lack of tracking and monitoring ability.
The idea is to make absolute public national fools of the california government, make them into Governmental Pariahs on the national scene. Remove tax dollars from tourism. Drain the brain by warning away university students. Give extra discounts to Residents of Gun Friendly States who chose to go to a local university instead of a California one. All kinds of tactics. However no political body, even in the so called Free states has the cahones to be that open and that direct even though it would work wonders.

Oh yes, also need to play the Race Card. "Californians once were able to carry like we do today in Arizona. However, many years ago their Racist Legislature caved to Police Pressure to ban the open carrying of loaded firearms in public. They did this specifically in response to Blacks, who at the time had armed themselves in defense against Civil Rights Violations by Police . California's gun laws have continued ever since in the same vein, designed to ensure the poor lack any means of self defense while cutting critical police patrols in poorer neighborhoods leaving the poor and unarmed defenseless against a relentless tide of gang crime and violence. Stand with us against California and its Open Racism. All men are given certain inalienable rights, one being the right to self-defense."

[dustoff31]

If your politicians won't listen to you, their own constituient, why on earth would they possibly care what people from other states, who can't vote for or against them thinks?

Barring drastic changes in voting habits and/or the types of politicians in CA, your only hope in gun law changes is through the federal courts. Period.

[NorCalAthlete]

The simple, california disarms its population and prevents it from exercising its right to self-defense. As such California Legislature is legislating Rape, Robbery, Assault, Battery, Burglary against it's own citizens.

So, take a gun friendly state like Arizona. Have their health and public safety department issue warnings to all residents of Arizona stating that travel to California is risky, dangerous, and might result in them being jailed for actions of self defense that would be legal in their home state. Also, as students cannot own guns in their dorms nor carry on campus all High School Seniors are warned against going to a California University due to risk of being made into a victim or being jailed for exercising their right to self-defense.
Make the publications major and state wide and from a collation of gun friendly states.

Aka marginalize california as a crime ridden (it is) victim making, criminal making state that should be avoided if at all possible. Money makes the world go round, this hits in the tourist pocketbooks. It is also public mud in the face of california politicians.

Add to the publications and media campaign showing them releasing prisoners early back into the public environment. Show the lack of tracking and monitoring ability.
The idea is to make absolute public national fools of the california government, make them into Governmental Pariahs on the national scene. Remove tax dollars from tourism. Drain the brain by warning away university students. Give extra discounts to Residents of Gun Friendly States who chose to go to a local university instead of a California one. All kinds of tactics. However no political body, even in the so called Free states has the cahones to be that open and that direct even though it would work wonders.

Good ideas, but as you said there's a relatively low likelihood of a massive, coordinated campaign like that happening anytime soon. I like the ideas though, makes sense.

If your politicians won't listen to you, their own constituient, why on earth would they possibly care what people from other states, who can't vote for or against them thinks?

Think of it like a corporation. The CEO may not listen to the janitor or security guard or other low level worker bees telling him to make changes, but if the CEOs of several other companies pull him/her aside and go "look, you should really make this and this change, we've had no problems doing the same in our companies" I think the first CEO is more likely to listen to people he/she views as being more "on their level".

[meaty-btz]

If your politicians won't listen to you, their own constituient, why on earth would they possibly care what people from other states, who can't vote for or against them thinks?

Barring drastic changes in voting habits and/or the types of politicians in CA, your only hope in gun law changes is through the federal courts. Period.

You don't understand we can harness the national stage to crush and marginalize californian politics. Politicians share quite a few universal traits, one of those is A Massive Ego. Punch them in the Ego and make fools of them and they will change not because they believe but to avoid loss of face. A ton of Californian Politicians go on to the National Level, this kind of campaign would cripple them.

When the "Minority Groups" come out against them they will lose ground. When the Tourists stay away and keep their money from the businesses, big ones like Hollywood and Disney! There will be hell to pay.

We need to be as intense, consistent, numerous, and loud as they were during the heyday of Progressive Gun Laws and Disinformation Campaigns. This will impact the publics thinking and eventually result in voting changes.

[bwiese]

No.

CA legislators worry about their districts (and perhaps environs surrounding) plus the state of the state party.

Given the CA Republican incompetence in winning elections in CA due to stupid stances, CA has pretty much turned into a guaranteed-minority-Republican configuration [and a bunch of Reeps are weak on guns anyway because they're scared of their own shadows].

Furthermore, other ("red") states' legislators won't get much respect because we Californians are paying for many of the 'red states". As screwed up as we are, we in CA produce goods & services far in excess of money kicked back by the Feds - which is the opposite of the red states, which live on Fed subsidies, Fed employment, Fed retirements etc. and don't produce much.

[dustoff31]

So you guys believe that the majority of voters and politicians in CA will change their stripes if people in other states make fun of them?

That has been going on for some time. Things have only gotten worse from what I see.

[meaty-btz]

We are NOT paying for the other states. God man. I have seen you repeat that lie over and over again. Frustrates the HELL OUTA ME. It is arrogant and myopic view of industries and such in the various other states, like somehow the era of Third Largest World Economy still exists. At one point we were, not any more.

The rest of this nation could get along just fine without California. Already other States are like sharks circling the bleed corpse of this state ripping off every chunk of Business they can. It is working. Look at the revenue reports to see the proof in the pudding as it were. Couple that with slaughtering California on the National Politics Scene and it will just hit even harder. I am looking at work of fear of Trigger Event budget cuts mid year. I am nearly certain we will get them because Revenue will most certainly continue to decline. Never forget that a ton of tech that made up the 3rd Largest Economy left ages ago for Tempe, AZ and took their Revenue with them.
*****
You mistake the difference between Joe OtherState making fun and Targeted Political Smear Campaign that pulls specific groups of people away from California: Tourism, University Students. You thereby rob California of Revenue and Brain Power. They never care what you or I think, never did and never will. They care about one day going into the big game at the Fed, they won't fare too well if they are considered buffoons by their Peers. This campaign would be massive public and backed by State Governments. The goal is to isolate California and rob it of money and smart people. Remember Joe OtherState consumes TV and gets his beliefs from TV and Propaganda. We just need to use the same system the other side uses. Also said Propaganda will be targeted into the State itself, a huge influx of the campaign designed to start to sway Joe Californian threatening the voting bases of the local Politicians.

This isn't cracking jokes, this would be a WAR. Every move would be scripted and controlled. This has never been done by our side before. It was done by the other side. We just don't have backers like they did, and we would need it. It WORKS, period. We have just never been able to do it like they did. We need to use the State Governments because all of our side has been Marginalized already. That means we cannot be the base, the other sides Campaign has already ruined that for us. Once things start going our way we can then use our more conventional groups to expand the Campaign. Right now we need to marginalize THEM, the same way the did us. Take off the kid gloves and fight hard and dirty. There is no prize for second place in this fight.

[hoffmang]

We are NOT paying for the other states.

For every dollar CA pays in in Federal Taxes, CA gets back $0.79. You'll note that the states that get back more than $1.00 per $1.00 are mostly Red. Source.

-Gene

[meaty-btz]

Your figures are for '04 Gene. You are THE MAN when it comes to this stuff but got any relevant data? Things were not just peachy keen then, they were great. Where things are today would make more sense since there has been a great change in the economic climate since then. Anything Post '08 would work. We have moved a ton of people between states since then.

I don't think I can argue against the large body of VERY WEALTHY people who live in California.

[monk]

http://www.taxfoundation.org/research/show/266.html

Seems the latest these guys have is from 2005. CA didn't change much, Nevada received even less.

[meaty-btz]

Anything post crash? That would be good info, prior data is based on what amounts to another economy. I did some digging but my google-fu is weak so I couldn't get any recent data.

[hoffmang]

Your figures are for '04 Gene. You are THE MAN when it comes to this stuff but got any relevant data?

The trend is toward CA getting less and less Federal dollars back. http://www.taxfoundation.org/research/show/22685.html

On these sorts of macro calculations, the data isn't going to change quickly. I'd say that the onus to disagree with Bill's statement and my evidence is on you and simply saying that it's not 2010 data isn't evidence.

-Gene

[wash]

ABC

That's where the Feds spend the money, Anywhere But California.

The only California politicians susceptible to out of state pressure are our U.S. Congressmen and they are mostly a bunch of idiots.

[hoffmang]

Here is an update through 2009 via the Economist: http://www.economist.com/blogs/daily...s-fiscal-union



-Gene