Carry Handguns And Ammunition In Same Locked Case?

[Librarian]

From this layperson's vantage point, there seems to be some missing information here.

Note that 12026.1 includes the following:

(b) The provisions of this section do not prohibit or limit the otherwise lawful carrying or transportation of any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person in accordance with this chapter.

(emphasis added).

12025 does not stand alone. 12026 does not stand alone. 12026.1 does not stand alone. 12026.2 does not stand alone. The "chapter" appears to begin with 12020, and a new "chapter" at 12050. Certainly it appears that all the sections which refer explicitly to 12025 should be read as a package - including the destinations as well as the method of transport, and the loophole in 12026.2

(c) This section does not prohibit or limit the otherwise lawful carrying or transportation of any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person in accordance with this chapter.

-- what's "otherwise lawful carrying"? We're back to the '58 jurisdictions problem'.

[eje]

Here's my take on the "otherwise lawful carrying" language: PC 12026.1 contains exemptions to the concealed weapon law, i.e., transporting a pistol in a locked container in the car. If the pistol's in a locked container you're cool. But this exemption should not be interpreted as requiring you to transport the pistol in a locked container in a vehicle all the time if there is some other provision in the same chapter of the Penal Code that allows you to carry or transport the pistol some other way while you are in your vehicle. You could be one of the persons listed in PC 12027 for example, or you could be doing one of the activities specified in PC 12027, and you would not be required to transport the pistol in a locked container in your vehicle.

[krby]

From this layperson's vantage point, there seems to be some missing information here.

Note that 12026.1 includes the followingemphasis added).

12025 does not stand alone. 12026 does not stand alone. 12026.1 does not stand alone. 12026.2 does not stand alone. The "chapter" appears to begin with 12020, and a new "chapter" at 12050. Certainly it appears that all the sections which refer explicitly to 12025 should be read as a package - including the destinations as well as the method of transport, and the loophole in 12026.2 -- what's "otherwise lawful carrying"? We're back to the '58 jurisdictions problem'.

I don't follow. Did you mean my question was missing info becasue I selectively quoted the statute?
In any case, my questions can be simply restated like this:
- Assuming I'm transporting my handgun in my car. It's unloaded and it's in it's own locked container. May I also transport ammunition in the same locked container? If a trunk is a locked container, can I set the handgun and the ammuntion loose in the trunk?
(This may simply boil down to "what is unloaded"? Is my handgun unloaded if the ammunition is not attached to the handgun, but is in a not-locked box next to the firearm and both are in a locked container?)

- Assuming I am complying with "locked container and unloaded", is there a destination requirement?

[Anonymous Coward]

Pursuant to law, all firearms, whether transported in the vehicle or on your person, must be unloaded (Penal Code 12030 with exception, i.e., peace officers, security guards with exposed firearm permits, etc., persons with CCW permits). For further interpretation of the law, you need to consult with your local law enforcement agency and/or local city or district attorney's office for advice on transporting ammunition along with your firearm. As you state, it is either not addressed or not addressed clearly enough in the law for you to interpret. Your local jurisdictional entities are charged with the enforcement of state law so it is most advisable to receive legal advice from them

The Department of Justice Firearms Division cannot dispense personal legal advice.

I'm wondering if that's already the fallout of the cali legal lower effort. Maybe the people at the DOJ got pressure from DAs, LEOs and politicians in the state to be more careful with their legal advice.

The response is total BS. It's a state law and it should be interpreted the same in the whole state, otherwise there's no equal protection.

[Librarian]

- Assuming I am complying with "locked container and unloaded", is there a destination requirement?

The way I read the law, yes.

At a guess, actually going from home to a sensible place where one can use a pistol, or returning from such a place, would ordinarily be fine. It's carrying a concealable handgun around all the time - say, home to work and back, where you cannot carry or shoot at work - that seems like it would be a problem.

But what do I know? I'm not a lawyer, and I haven't seen a case about this cited which might clarify.

[krby]

The way I read the law, yes.

At a guess, actually going from home to a sensible place where one can use a pistol, or returning from such a place, would ordinarily be fine. It's carrying a concealable handgun around all the time - say, home to work and back, where you cannot carry or shoot at work - that seems like it would be a problem.

Right, I don't want to just carry around. But I don't want to feel like I've got to go "right to the range and then right home". It would be nice to incorporate a trip to the range as part of a day where other destinations are involved without worrying.

[krby]

Holy thread ressurection, Batman!

Ok, so this thread isn't that old. But rather than start a new thread, I'll post a related question here.

Let's say I have my bedside gun with it's magazine charged ready to go. Of course I practice with this gun at the range. So, it seems annoying to have to uncharge the magazine just to travel to the range. Obviously, the gun can't be transported with the magazine in the well, but is do people see any way that it's ok, to keep the magazine charged by separate from the gun? As I read things, the charged magazine (even locked away from the unloaded gun) is still considered a loaded gun.

[tygerpaw]

[QUOTE=m1371]Jesus freaking Christ..... READ THE ORIGINAL POST BY [QUOTE]JYL.

Buddah Damnit! Allah Damnit! Mohamed damnit! - Let's see, is everyone equally offended now?

[Librarian]

As I read things, the charged magazine (even locked away from the unloaded gun) is still considered a loaded gun.

I go with Artherd's post #3 in this thread; I can't understand how anyone who reads English can come to the conclusion that a loaded magazine can be construed as a loaded gun. (Yes, there are places in the law where possession of a gun and the ammunition for it - wherever you are carrying the ammo - are defined as 'loaded gun'; not talking about that one.)(I don't think People v Hale means what M1371 reported he learned, but not being a lawyer, my analysis could easily be wrong.)

However, my opinion on this is worth exactly what you have paid me for it. If you want something you can rely on, there are professionals with licenses who will try to answer the question definitively, for an appropriate fee.

Consider 2 things:

(1) How likely are you to do something or to have the bad luck to drive into a situation where you will be stopped and searched?
and
(2) considering the hassle of arrest, and trying to get your gun back - cost, annoyance, possible loss of right to possess firearms - just how much of an annoyance is it to unload that magazine and carry it to the range empty and reload it at the line?

Me? I unload mine. I'm very risk-averse.

[krby]

Consider 2 things:

(1) How likely are you to do something or to have the bad luck to drive into a situation where you will be stopped and searched?
and
(2) considering the hassle of arrest, and trying to get your gun back - cost, annoyance, possible loss of right to possess firearms - just how much of an annoyance is it to unload that magazine and carry it to the range empty and reload it at the line?

Me? I unload mine. I'm very risk-averse.

You nailed it. I tend to be as well. It's just that I get worked up feeling like if I don't do exactly everything "right" (for some definition of "right" that I'm not allowed to know until I'm involved in a trial) I'll be put in jail and have my gun rights. taken away.

It's easy to get worked up thinking about it and talking about it on the 'net, but I easily see myself taking the extra few seconds to discharge (hmm, that sounds worse than what I meant) the magazine before walking out the door

It's funny. My friend even drives slower when transporting to the range. How did we get so conditioned that we're doing something wrong?

[taloft]

It's funny. My friend even drives slower when transporting to the range. How did we get so conditioned that we're doing something wrong?

Because you forgot your Aluminum Foil Deflector Beanie!
The evil ones influence you even now! Quick, get to this site and protect yourself! http://zapatopi.net/afdb/

Sorry, it's late and I'm getting a little flaky. Anyone else notice that the Time listed in the forum appears to be off?

[WhiteSands]

[metalhead357]

6 Pages of posts by pro gun folks and no one agrees on how we can transport to and from a range.

Christ I hate what California has become!

Yea...But C'mon... Do you have permission to use that picture before they get you for copyright infringement? LOL! I hear ya' man- this place is friggin nutts with even bigger nuts running it.

Use the militart Keep it simple stupid (KISS) Principle.... lock up the gun, lock up the mags, and seperate the ammo..... 3X the coverage and I REALLLLLY dont think you're ever gonna have a problem....unless you're in San Francisco, La, Bakersfield, ORange Country, Contra Costa, Oakland, Hayward, San MAteo..............

Yea, you gotta love this place

Metalhead