Stop and identify?

[Doggboy]

After reading the thread on the Redlands PD interaction, and then the OCSD/LASD OC memos I have a question. While I know CA does not have a stop and identify clause, the OC memos clearly state (several times) that the temporary detainment for 12031 (e) gives the officer the right to DEMAND ID.

Does anyone have the PC for this? The Redlands PD seemed to agree that no ID was required to be shown, but the memos tell a very different story. I did a search, but I didn't find an answer, and I'm not providing ID i I don't have to. Thanks

[Liberty1]

No stop and ID statute in the PC. The CVC has 40302a however.

40302. Whenever any person is arrested for any violation of this
code, not declared to be a felony, the arrested person shall be taken
without unnecessary delay before a magistrate within the county in
which the offense charged is alleged to have been committed and who
has jurisdiction of the offense and is nearest or most accessible
with reference to the place where the arrest is made in any of the
following cases:
(a) When the person arrested fails to present his driver's license
or other satisfactory evidence of his identity for examination.
(b) When the person arrested refuses to give his written promise
to appear in court.
(c) When the person arrested demands an immediate appearance
before a magistrate.
(d) When the person arrested is charged with violating Section
23152.

[pullnshoot25]

After reading the thread on the Redlands PD interaction, and then the OCSD/LASD OC memos I have a question. While I know CA does not have a stop and identify clause, the OC memos clearly state (several times) that the temporary detainment for 12031 (e) gives the officer the right to DEMAND ID.

Does anyone have the PC for this? The Redlands PD seemed to agree that no ID was required to be shown, but the memos tell a very different story. I did a search, but I didn't find an answer, and I'm not providing ID i I don't have to. Thanks

Those memos are wrong, as the 12031 check is not a Terry stop.

He can ask, beg, request, demand to see ID all day long and you still don't have to show him or tell him anything.

[natedogg1777]

Interesting. I was wondering this same thing after reading the Redlands PD story...somebody beat me to it!

[pullnshoot25]

Elsensei and I are going to be making OC training videos for the blog and it will address all of these issues. I wish that Legend_AB were down here, I would freaking love to have him appear in it because of his freaking stellar performance.

[hoffmang]

He can ask, beg, request, demand to see ID all day long and you still don't have to show him or tell him anything.

Case law is pretty clear that you have to at least give him oral identification (name, home address.) However, in CA there is no "must show ID" law as the one on the books was struck by SCOTUS.

-Gene

[Liberty1]

Case law is pretty clear that you have to at least give him oral identification (name, home address.) However, in CA there is no "must show ID" law as the one on the books was struck by SCOTUS.

-Gene

Just to clarify that the demand can be made during a lawful detention or after arrest (and not a mere "e" check)? And what is the penalty for non compliance, 148 PC - obstructing?

[hoffmang]

Just to clarify that the demand can be made during a lawful detention or after arrest (and not a mere "e" check)? And what is the penalty for non compliance, 148 PC - obstructing?

It has been a while since I looked, but you'll be hard pressed to avoid identifying yourself in a detention.

As you might imagine, I'm a bit tired. I'll try to look at this when I have some time later this week.

-Gene

[bohoki]

i find it is hard to believe that you are required to had over an id card if carrying id is not required by law

somehow that just seems dare i say it

unfair?

ive had a cop say "lets see some id" and like a conditioned sheep i handed over my dl

what if i didn't have it (this is impossible if you are driving) but walking down the street there is no requirement to carry id

seems to me that if they can run you in for not handing them a id card then they could run in everybody not carrying one

they never say identify yourself they always say "let me see some id"

i'd like to show them my underwear with my name on it but i don't know where that nightstick has been

[Liberty1]

As you might imagine, I'm a bit tired.
-Gene

You really need to stop all that boozing it up and partying all night long in those SF clubs and do some work for a change

[Liberty1]

i find it is hard to believe that you are required to had over an id card if carrying id is not required by law

Maybe not a physical ID card unless there is a state "stop and ID" statute which complies with Hiibel, but as Gene indicated there may be some times one is compelled to state name and address. What cops really want however is name and DOB since with that I can find out a lot about anyone.

[hoffmang]

You really need to stop all that boozing it up and partying all night long in those SF clubs and do some work for a change

Is it ok if I do both as long as I get my work done?

-Gene

[twinfin]

[1859sharps]

honest question...

why are people so resistent to identifing them self to LEOs. Whats the thought/concern behind this?

[Liberty1]

Is it ok if I do both as long as I get my work done?

-Gene

With what you and the CGF band of merry men accomplish, I hope you all are sloshed all the time.


time all the time!