Basic reloading question- how full is full

[stilly]

Hmmm. I wonder if Firefly had it backwards then? In one episode They had Jane sitting with his beloved Vera and he said that he could get off maybe at least one shot, but that was contingent on how much air they had I think. I THOUGHT it had to be fired from within a space suit and after it punctured the suit and compromised the outside, it was no good anymore.

Hmmm. so the moral of the story is if you get to go to mars, take your AK with you.

As far as ignition is concerned, what if I was to RELOAD in a vaccuum then? Maybe flush my garage with nitrogen and wear my 16CF pony and regulator across my shoulder while making a few rounds. I wonder if they would ignite better based on how I flushed my garage. I can try with Argon, Oxygen, Nitrogen, Helium and whatever else I can get at a welding/diving shop...

Hmmm, I can see a new line of Dippin Dots rounds being made...

[rsrocket1]

Black powder, Pyrodex, etc.
Same thing. The powder has its own oxidizer. Black powder is simply charcoal, sulfur and potassium nitrate (KNO3). The 3 oxygen atoms provide the oxygen for combustion.

10KNO3 (s) + 3S (s) + 8C (s) → 2KCO3 (s) + 3K2SO4 (s) + 6CO2 (g) + 5N2 (g) where (s) is solid and (g) is gaseous

Notice that there is no O2 (g) on the left side of the equation. No need for free oxygen molecules.

Pyrodex adds graphite and potassium perchlorate which makes it more energetic per weigh (and more corrosive) but it still does not need free oxygen to burn.

To the OP,
If you are compressing the powder more than a hundredth of an inch or so, make sure you plunk test your rounds because the volume of 9mm cases vary quite a bit and you can possibly bulge the body of the case if you compress the powder down too much. Ask how I know. Plus the pressures climb very rapidly as you compress the powder.

I've found the ideal 9mm load for Unique was a very light compression. I get good clean burn, a good muzzle velocity and clean brass showing good sealing of the chamber (not sooty).

[BeFrank]

Hmmm. So then I wonder what the ignition properties would be if the firearm were to be fired in a vaccuum.

I suspect ignition would be more reliable. Oxygen and nitrogen tend to be "quench" gasses that limit spark propagation, at least in G-M tubes.
I'm sure common firearms were tested in vacuum extensively in the sixties.

[Eljay]

You should definitely not vacuum up your black powder. ;-)

[stilly]

But what about OTHER powders? Black? Pyrodex? Things like that... :\

Firing under water demonstrates the same principle a lot safer than shooting a vacuum chamber

I took a Taurus PT-99 under water and shot it once. It was very loud. It was also with factory ammo...

[Fjold]

Hmmm. So then I wonder what the ignition properties would be if the firearm were to be fired in a vaccuum.

Like it was said above:

Smokeless powder has it's own oxidizer, it doesn't need air for chemical conversion.

Mythbusters put a revolver in a vacuum chamber and it fired just fine, They just re-ran the episode about an hour ago.

[AreWeFree]

Firing under water demonstrates the same principle a lot safer than shooting a vacuum chamber

[CSACANNONEER]

Hmmm. So then I wonder what the ignition properties would be if the firearm were to be fired in a vaccuum.

I've heard of primers go off in a vacuum before but, I've never heard of anyone vacuuming an entire firearm and it going off. Is that some kind of new CA safety test?

[TKM]

From the Berry's folks. Something to think about while you are looking for loads.

FAQ: Load Data for Berry's Preferred Plated Bullets:

http://www.berrysmfg.com/faq-q21-c1-Load_Data_for_Berrys_Preferred_Plated_Bullets.aspx

Currently published load data is limited to some calibers by Accurate, Western Powders and Hodgdon. We are working with these companies to get data published for all of our bullets.
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We recommend using hard cast load data or start with mid-range jacketed data. Make sure data is below 1250fps unless you are using a Thick-Plated bullet that we list a higher max velocity for like the 9mm 124gr HBRN-TP that can be shot to 1500fps in open class guns like a .38 Super. Keep in mind that since our plated bullet has the same pressure curve as a hard cast bullet, the published cast data will be very close to what you will get with our plated bullets. If you use Jacketed data with our plated bullets you can get from 5% - 8% increase in velocity using that data.
Other than the data from Western and Accurate for the 9mm, .40S&W and Hodgdon .40S&W there is no printed data available.
For further questions you can email sales@berrysmfg.com
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http://www.berrysmfg.com/faq-q9-c1-How_do_I_load_Berrys_Preferred_Plated_Bullets.aspx

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Plated bullets occupy a position between cast bullets and jacketed bullets. They are soft lead, but have a hard outer shell on them. When loading plated bullets we have found best results using low- to mid-range jacketed data in the load manual. You must use data for a bullet that has the same weight and profile as the one you are loading. Do not exceed mid-range loads. Do not use magnum loads.

[stilly]

Hmmm. So then I wonder what the ignition properties would be if the firearm were to be fired in a vaccuum.

[AreWeFree]

This sounds like a good topic. Thank you for starting it up, OP.




I have a question regarding this. You'll have to excuse me, as I'm new to reloading so I may be confusing with my terminology, etc.

My understanding on fill volume has a lot to do with the powder burn rate. Some will be filled more, some less; based on their rate. The amount of air volume -- I'm thinking it's matched to the powder charge. It's like making Kool-Aid. 1 part KA to 2 parts water (for example). If you use less or more water, your Kool-Aid tastes different. For us, the water would represent the air space. All powder charges are matched with a certain amount of air, and these two variables create the peak pressure at firing.

If I'm wrong, please let me know. But that said, I don't see how the placement of the powder could change pressure to a great extent. If I point and shoot at a snake on the ground, the powder would be at the furthest from the primer. Would that really change pressures considering the total volume in the case is unchanged?

Smokeless powder has it's own oxidizer, it doesn't need air for chemical conversion. The peak pressure during firing has many variables, my post above is crudely(poorly) discussing surface area, and this relates to the amount of powder being ignited in the case.

[stilly]

hehehe. Also, don't mix up the floating butter fingers for lube in your resizers either...

[CSACANNONEER]

SO, moral of this story, don't fart in a bubble bath and reload your shells with it unless you want to be glorious and possibly go to valhalla...

What? Now you tell me. Crap, I'm going to have to change my ways.

[Daniel_Carlsbad]

All great info. Thanks again everyone. I'm going to reach out to alliant and get their point of view as well. I'll followup on Monday if I hear back from them by then. Being the newbie I always want to be extra cautious and better to ask more questions then make some stupid mistakes. Thanks

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

[J-cat]

Yes.

I have seen 200 FPS difference in the 38 Special.

But this thread is about the 9mm and there isn't enough room in the case to cause a powder positioning problem.

Regarding case fill, powder varies from lot to lot. The burn rate varies as does bulk density. So if you take two different powder lots and weigh out 6grs, one may fill the case more than the other.

Case fill also depends on how the powder settles in the case. If you slowly trickle it in using a long drop tube the powder column will be shorter. If you dump it in fast through a short funnel the powder column will be longer and take up more room in the case.

Last, it's ok to compress 99% of powders. The only powder I'm aware of that you should not compress is Trail Boss. Use published data. Don't be scared of the powder.