What's Going On?

[drdarrin@sbcglobal.net]

I never said you had to agree with me, I wasn't looking for support, I was merely stating that the practice of modifying dies is a waste of time and effort, the proper tools for the job can be had from the onset. And yes Stilly we have met before, it was at the monthly shoot at Insight.

Well good, because I don't agree.

If someone wants to modify his/her tools to meet their specific needs, what business is it of yours to take exception? Innovation and new things are made in such ways. Fortunes are made in such ways. Feeling a little controlling or something?

When someone is trying to develop a wildcat cartridge, and there are hundreds in common use today, where did they get the reamers to cut the chambers and the dies to reload the ammo before the major manufactures got on board? Well sunshine, their either altered existing tools or made new ones.

So, if someone wants to polish a seating stem or grind away on it to create a new profile they need or just to alter it so it exactly matches their favorite bullet, I say more power to them. It's called innovation and without it, you'd still be killing animals with sticks, stones and pitfalls.

[Wrangler John]

Poor old me, I've either been modifying seating stems or sending them back to the manufacturer with a couple sample bullets for modification, for over a half-century.

Back when I was doing competitive shooting I learned a few tricks. One was to place a coat of stockmaker's black inside the seating chamber then insert a bullet and twist it to see where it was hitting. Next step was to use a tapered felt bob (http://www.amazon.com/TEMO-POLISHING...N%3DB00C050SK0) with buffing compound (http://www.amazon.com/Enkay-150-Poli...N%3DB0009SPY04) and polish out the offending area. These bobs can be shaped by running them against a file. Hold the seating stem in a lathe or even an electric drill and spin it for most consistent results. One of those Dremel tapered stones can work if a lot of material has to be removed ( http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/d...dcylinder.aspx ), followed by the felt bob and buffing compound. If you don't have stockmaker's black, use a Sharpie marker, or a shot of sight black. Go slow, check often, cut once. The Black Emery compound cuts the quickest.

One old trick is to place a dab of sealing wax in the stem cavity and press a bullet in quickly and hold it until the wax sets. Now you have a temporary custom fitted seating stem.

A little more permanent fix, but one that can cause trouble if not done correctly, is to use J.B. Weld instead of sealing wax. Cut a little clearance inside the seating recess, then degrease it completely. Next use a little car wax on the bullet, case neck, inside the die and on the OUTSIDE of the seating stem. Then place a small amount of J.B. Weld inside the seating recess of the stem, reassemble the die and seat the bullet. Leave the press handle down until the epoxy cures. Remove the stem and trim or file off any excess. Now you have a custom fitted seating stem for that particular bullet, providing you didn't glue everything together with an excess of epoxy. Buy more seating stems and you can have one fitted for every bullet style you use.

There's always more than one way to skin a cat, make up your own.

[Grunt81]

Stilly, RR.44 definitely isn't a white boy. Try again.

[Grunt81]

Darrin, you make a good argument. But you need to ease off. Your average Joe Schmuckatellie reloader probably only owns a drill, a reciprocating saw, and maybe a dremel. A grinder or worm-drive sawcutter with diamond blade is generally beyond the scope of what a guy has in his garage, if he doesn't make a living in a specific trade which requires that tool, much less, a lathe.

Innovation is usually achieved by someone who is a professional in the respective field. Wildcat cartridges are usually first created by gunsmiths who own the necessary tools to modify dies and cut custom chambers with a rifling twist rate designed for a specific range of bullet weights.

RR.44 is referring to pistol cartridges. That's what he competes with. If someone is annoyed by a ring around an ogive, then sure, do what makes you feel good. A lathe isn't necessary, nor does this approach anything near actually wildcatting a new cartridge. Personally, I've loaded a vast array of different pistol and rifle bullets. I've never needed to do anything to my dies out of the box. No bullet seating dies have ever left a mark on my bullets during seating. Granted, I've never bought VLDs. But I will develop a specific hunting load with an all-copper bullet this summer, after I cast a few thousand pistol bullets.

[Twystd1]

After all safety should be our first concern, modifying a die IMHO is not safe.

I apologize if this sounds like a rant, I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels this way.

I'm with Wrangler John.

To the OP.
So are you saying I should NEVER use my Milling machine or my Lathe or my files or my buffing lathes or my thousands of dollars worth of natz azz measuring tools to modify my dies because it is not safe?

Just so I am clear. Why is this a bad idea?
What is going to happen that is going to put me and others into a unsafe position?

For the life of me. I can't understand what you are trying to teach me with your post. I absolutely don't get it. Maybe I'm just dense.
But if I am doing something wrong. Please elucidate me further.

-T

[stilly]

Stilly, RR.44 definitely isn't a white boy. Try again.

Well damn. Who am I thinking of? Yeah if they aint Italian then they all look alike to me...


I get Bumslie, Bronco, and FP mixed up all the time.

[drdarrin@sbcglobal.net]

Darrin, you make a good argument. But you need to ease off. Your average Joe Schmuckatellie reloader probably only owns a drill, a reciprocating saw, and maybe a dremel. A grinder or worm-drive sawcutter with diamond blade is generally beyond the scope of what a guy has in his garage, if he doesn't make a living in a specific trade which requires that tool, much less, a lathe.

Innovation is usually achieved by someone who is a professional in the respective field. Wildcat cartridges are usually first created by gunsmiths who own the necessary tools to modify dies and cut custom chambers with a rifling twist rate designed for a specific range of bullet weights.

RR.44 is referring to pistol cartridges. That's what he competes with. If someone is annoyed by a ring around an ogive, then sure, do what makes you feel good. A lathe isn't necessary, nor does this approach anything near actually wildcatting a new cartridge. Personally, I've loaded a vast array of different pistol and rifle bullets. I've never needed to do anything to my dies out of the box. No bullet seating dies have ever left a mark on my bullets during seating. Granted, I've never bought VLDs. But I will develop a specific hunting load with an all-copper bullet this summer, after I cast a few thousand pistol bullets.

Ease off? I don't think so. Not when the OP states "I don't get this practice, reloaders should know what they are buying, dies were not meant to be "reworked" and or "modified" some mfgrs have what is necessary to reload different types of bullets whether it be a RN or FP , inquire what is available from the various mfgrs before purchasing any die set, this will keep you from having to modify anything.

After all safety should be our first concern, modifying a die IMHO is not safe."

Safety is my primary concern and I for one, fail to see how polishing, or even in the extreme, filing flat, the bullet seating stem is a safety issue. OP has been asked several times to give his reasons and he hasn't responded. Perhaps, since you apparently know him, you can get him to share his reasoning.

Granted, wildcatting and custom die making are extreme examples of people modifying existing tools to create new cartridges, chambers and the dies needed to reload for them. My point was, people modify tools they have all the time for a variety of reasons. Whether it's polishing the inside of a die or the cup of the seating stem, they do it if they feel the need and are willing to do the work. It harms no one and is not a safety issue to anyone. To say otherwise, without providing any reason, is BS and only creates FUD.

[Grunt81]

Perhaps, since you apparently know him, you can get him to share his reasoning.

Sure, I'll send him a text.

And this is for you, older brother:
USMC Life Member
2002-2006
0341, INFANTRY

[pacrat]

Nobody ever told me it was unsafe. You mean I,ve been risking life and limb for over 40 yrs and didn't even realize it?

All of the various depriming punches, bullet seaters, top punches for LubriSizer, and even trimming pilots that I've made with drill motors clamped in a soft jaw vise. And later my handy dandy Mini Lathe.

It's downright amazing I haven't done gone and blowed myself up yet.

Back in the pre interweb credit card days when dinos roamed the earth and your top punch or seater was smashing the hole shut on your new hollowpoints. [Remember this was also pre phone order credit card days.]

You either went to LGS and special ordered, then waited a week or more for the right one. Or you went to the garage, dug out your tools, and spent 15 or 20 enjoyable minutes creating what you needed.

Grade 8 bolts make absofreak'nlutely wonderfull reloading tools.

Thanks for the warning, I will immediately curtail my dangerous activities.

[drdarrin@sbcglobal.net]

And let that be a lesson to ya, by gum!

[drdarrin@sbcglobal.net]

Sure, I'll send him a text.



And this is for you, older brother:

USMC Life Member

2002-2006

0341, INFANTRY

You can always tell a Marine... You just can't tell 'em much! Semper Fi Jar Head!

[stilly]

I think OP just wanted to be social but was not sure how to start a new thread and be social and informative about it based on the awkwardness of the accusatory post which might be stemming from a childhood incident or possibly a series of incidents that led to them becoming an introvert and later not getting the proper finishing in social ettiquette and forced into the public education system.

I get where OP is coming from. They just want to know what is going on but it came out awkward a bit. No big deal. It did sound a bit controlling but some people come on a little too strong sometimes. It is all good. This is the reloading forum, not one of those SPECIALTY forums. We do not get butt hurt, we take our reloads and fire back

Whas UP G. How you DO?

You making it to the Riverside Shoot today? Prove that you are not a 6' white guy with a gun... I did not see you at the insight shoot

[Fordtrucks]

Wow.....👙👙👙

Maybe that will lighten things up a bit . Lol

[CGT80]

The RCBS seating stem for 30-30 was not the right shape for my Saeco #315 (NOE 5 cavity plain base) boolits. A 1/4" x 28 bolt was the start of the stem and I think I made the head a bit thicker by tig welding some filler on it, and then I turned it on the lathe. The other end was made with a hack saw, although I probably could have used my die grinder and a cut off wheel. I used a threading die to clean up the threads after working on the ends. Now it seats nicely and doesn't leave ugly imprints on the tops of my flat point rifle boolits.

[CGT80]

This part will really scare the OP. I decided to switch to separate seat and crimp dies for the 30-30. I had made two of these stems for flat nose as I use the same boolit in the 30-06 as well. I had two original stems in my reloading drawer so I took one and tig welded the end so it was solid and then turned it down. I was out of fine thread bolts and it was faster than going to the hardware store.