Another Wi-Fi question...for a dummy

[3d42]

I started a new thread as I didn't want to hijack LoneShooter's thread.

I am planning on installing a security camera system, and figured as long as I'm crawling around the attic, I should fix the internet irritations I've had since moving in. I should preface all that follows by saying that I am technologically illiterate; I dont know how stuff works or what it's called...

We have Comcast internet. The installer wired the modem(?) to an existing cable outlet in the wall. I hooked up the router(?) to the modem, and both pieces have lived on a foot stool in the dining room ever since. I got a range extender(?) that plugs into a wall socket and have it in another part of the house (about half way between the router and the back of the house).

I want to move the set up to a closet that has an unused shelf. The closet is in the front third of the house, but probably as close to the center as I could get it. I figure I could pull the coax from the current location, up through the wall from the attic, then run it to the new location.

My questions for the experts are: What type of router should I get, or what spec's should I look for; how do range extenders work and what should I get; and what other things should I think about or be aware of?

I greatly appreciate any assistance or links to helpful articles

[67Cuda]

If I were you, I'd get a mesh network set-up. Mesh is basically a modem system, you have multiple nodes you place throughout the house.
There are a number of mesh systems available. Read about them and the reviews, then pick one.
I use the Google mesh network and it works. I have full bars throughout a 2700ft single story house using 4 nodes. Bought it at Costco.

[3d42]

Thanks 67cuda, I've heard of mesh, but dont know anything about it. I will certainly read up on it. Forgive my laziness, as I am more inclined to follow the lead of those who know better: is the Google system from Costco a "plug and play" kit? It sounds like our homes are very similar, I too have a single story 2700 sf place with high ceilings.

[Master_Prestige]

Your download and upload speed is going to be 75% of your issues.

What internet package do you have from Comcast ?

[SkyHawk]

Mesh just means you have dedicated radios for backhauls/uplinks back to the access point that has the wired connection into your network.

The best way to spread wireless access points around of course, is hardwire each of them. But if you can’t do that, then using access points that have multiple radios, with a radio dedicated for a link back to the one WAP that is hardwired in, is the next best thing.

If you can pull wires to all your access points, then mesh is not needed. That doesn’t mean that you should exclude access points that can mesh, because most good access points can do it now, it just means you wont have to take the extra steps to mesh them. And it means the extra radios on board can be used by wireless clients/devices for better coverage, instead of being dedicated to uplinks.

[ibanezfoo]

If I were you, I'd get a mesh network set-up. Mesh is basically a modem system, you have multiple nodes you place throughout the house.
There are a number of mesh systems available. Read about them and the reviews, then pick one.
I use the Google mesh network and it works. I have full bars throughout a 2700ft single story house using 4 nodes. Bought it at Costco.

+1 to mesh though I wouldn't recommend Google. Its pretty slow compared to everything else out there these days. But, it is cheap and reliable from what I read.

[3d42]

Thanks for the replies. I have now watched hours of youtube videos about home networks. Based on the replies here, I agree that the mesh setups are the best way to go for me. I think I will be able to hardwire each port(?), but im still not sure how these devices work best. I'm leaning toward the samsung smartthings system and Id like to mount them to the ceiling. Would that have a negative effect on the signal/range? Can those devices be powered by the ethernet cable, or do they still need to be plugged in?

[hermosabeach]

Equipment likes to breath.... wifi is also great when line of sight

Placing equipment in a closet will dramatically limit range and speed.


The mesh networks allow the multiple antennas to decide where and how to route the signal.

Say you have a Wi-Fi router and an extender.

The extender always reaches back to the router. Two extenders - the signal is relayed in line

With a mesh, you might have 3-4 extenders and the system decides how to best get your device’s to the web.

As doors open and close in the home, signal changes. Mesh gives you a smart network that is also fast.


Costco has good prices
Use the Costco visa and they really extend the factory warranty.
They have a few mesh systems.

[the86d]

If you have already cut the cable, and you are not currently using pre-wired COAX, you CAN use MoCA/DOCSIS adapters, and I understand they go to 1Gb/sec... but it appears MoCA 1GB adapter sets might run you close to $200.
Powerline is another option, my son used to use it to go about 20', and now in his room, he jumps only 10' with virtually zero lag.

I just texted him to tell me his Internet speedtest speeds when he gets home, as now we have 500/500Mbps, and I haven't tested his throughput yet. I hear you can easily get 250/250 on what SAYS it is a 1GB link via the model we have. We shall see.

[Rivers]

When I installed a security camera system for a client, he had already just purchased an Orbi modem with a couple satellites. I was skeptical but it turned out that when we needed to plug in the NVR of the camera system to an ethernet network, the only prayer we had was an Orbi satellite that had an ethernet port. And it worked! I've been pleasantly surprised.

Regarding your security camera setup, when possible, ALWAYS go with wired. Wireless is too easy to jam and defeat. I don't know how they do on longevity but this client had also purchased a Lorex 4K system, all PoE (power over ethernet). That system has also worked very well. He bought it all at his Costco, just down the street from where he lives. I believe FLIR, the infrared camera people, own Lorex, or vice-versa.

Learn how to make your own CAT 6 wires, putting the CAT 6 plastic ends on bulk CAT 6 wire. Don't go with CAT 5E. Places like we-supply.com (Willy's Electronics) are good sources so find a similar type of business near your home. While 4K will work with that, the cost difference isn't that large and what happens when the next generation video comes out? It would suck to have to upgrade all the wires. Also, when you have ethernet and electrical (Romex, etc), you want to separate them with some distance or barrier. If they must cross over, cross them as close to 90˚ as possible. If the electrical is in metal conduit, you should be fine as the metal will shield from interference.

[3d42]

Re: cutting the cable... I did that last year. I fabricated a digital antenna mount using the dish mount, then used the existing coax cables to get the tv's hooked up. It worked well, but now the coax outlets are being used. The86d, the rest of your post flew right over my head! I am vaguely familiar with the concept of speeds, but I have no idea what I have or what I may need.

As for the cameras, Im definitely going with a hard wired system. Im also leaning toward the Lorex systems, mostly because of the price point and the features. I was initially unsure about the difference between DVR and NVR, but now Im leaning toward an NVR system. If I understand it correctly (and I may be way off), the DVR systems use two cables (coax? and power) and the NVR systems use one ethernet cable for each camera.

My goal for this project is to only have to go in the attic once! Thanks again for all the assistance!

[3d42]

One more thing: I saw videos that mention Cat5 and Cat6 ethernet cables. I assumed that the Cat6 is the latest generation and likely better, but still an ethernet cable with the same connections. I see 4K listed on some of the camera systems; I assumed that is a resolution. Is 4K a cable? Or does it require a different cable?

[Fizz]

When I installed a security camera system for a client, he had already just purchased an Orbi modem with a couple satellites. I was skeptical but it turned out that when we needed to plug in the NVR of the camera system to an ethernet network, the only prayer we had was an Orbi satellite that had an ethernet port. And it worked! I've been pleasantly surprised.

Regarding your security camera setup, when possible, ALWAYS go with wired. Wireless is too easy to jam and defeat. I don't know how they do on longevity but this client had also purchased a Lorex 4K system, all PoE (power over ethernet). That system has also worked very well. He bought it all at his Costco, just down the street from where he lives. I believe FLIR, the infrared camera people, own Lorex, or vice-versa.

Learn how to make your own CAT 6 wires, putting the CAT 6 plastic ends on bulk CAT 6 wire. Don't go with CAT 5E. Places like we-supply.com (Willy's Electronics) are good sources so find a similar type of business near your home. While 4K will work with that, the cost difference isn't that large and what happens when the next generation video comes out? It would suck to have to upgrade all the wires. Also, when you have ethernet and electrical (Romex, etc), you want to separate them with some distance or barrier. If they must cross over, cross them as close to 90˚ as possible. If the electrical is in metal conduit, you should be fine as the metal will shield from interference.

No no no regarding the cabling.

CAT5/6 that comes on spool is generally solid copper. The ends that you crimp on have teeth that can sever the solid copper strand or otherwise fail over time due to oxidation or movement.

Always terminate your solid copper inside wiring to jacks or patch panel, and use a patch cable to connect to the device. This makes it so the IW isn't stressed/flexed/fatigued over time. Even if this concern is nowhere on your radar, crimping ends on cable is a waste of time. Jacks terminate quickly and allows you to buy off the shelf, high quality, premade patch cables probably for less than you can make them yourself.

[Rivers]

No no no regarding the cabling.

CAT5/6 that comes on spool is generally solid copper. The ends that you crimp on have teeth that can sever the solid copper strand or otherwise fail over time due to oxidation or movement.

Always terminate your solid copper inside wiring to jacks or patch panel, and use a patch cable to connect to the device. This makes it so the IW isn't stressed/flexed/fatigued over time. Even if this concern is nowhere on your radar, crimping ends on cable is a waste of time. Jacks terminate quickly and allows you to buy off the shelf, high quality, premade patch cables probably for less than you can make them yourself.

You do realize that you can buy pretty much any type of CAT 6 wire, right? I've never had a wire fail from oxidation or movement in over two decades of doing this. This might be because I don't leave the wiring exposed to any elements, including moisture. And MOVEMENT? on a wire to a security camera? I suggest you pay more attention to how you route your cabling so movement isn't a factor.

When you're doing a home run from a patch panel to the camera, you must put one end on the cable. No other option. The wire housing is exposed to the elements so you want to cleanly connect and protect the camera connection. Putting the bare end of the wire into the patch panel is the simple part. When you're doing a run of over 100', those pre-made cables aren't always an option. And pulling 3 or more pre-made wires through conduit can be pretty impossible whereas unfinished bulk cable is very workable.

On a side note, you can also use CAT 6 for long HDMI runs. HDMI maxes out around 65' but using balams, CAT 6 can carry the HDMI signal for 300' or more. And pulling CAT 6 through conduit is way easier than a fat HDMI cable.

[Fizz]

You do realize that you can buy pretty much any type of CAT 6 wire, right? I've never had a wire fail from oxidation or movement in over two decades of doing this. This might be because I don't leave the wiring exposed to any elements, including moisture. And MOVEMENT? on a wire to a security camera? I suggest you pay more attention to how you route your cabling so movement isn't a factor.

When you're doing a home run from a patch panel to the camera, you must put one end on the cable. No other option. The wire housing is exposed to the elements so you want to cleanly connect and protect the camera connection. Putting the bare end of the wire into the patch panel is the simple part. When you're doing a run of over 100', those pre-made cables aren't always an option. And pulling 3 or more pre-made wires through conduit can be pretty impossible whereas unfinished bulk cable is very workable.

On a side note, you can also use CAT 6 for long HDMI runs. HDMI maxes out around 65' but using balams, CAT 6 can carry the HDMI signal for 300' or more. And pulling CAT 6 through conduit is way easier than a fat HDMI cable.

I'm not talking about oxidation along the bulk length of the cable. Yes, there is direct burial and suspension cable. Direct burial/exposed cable is usually black only (UV resistant pigmentation), and has dielectric grease between the outer sheath and the insulation for the individual conductors.

I'm talking about the terminations. There are different styles of ends, the ones you're 'supposed' to use for solid copper cable have teeth that are supposed to shear the strand insulation,and straddle the conductor. This is rarely a good gas seal and the teeth frequently don't straddle the conductor and instead cleave (and there's little way to inspect individual conductor to find out what it did post crimp). This is electrically a mechanical junction (the teeth conducting the wire conductor), the junction can weaken chemically over time due oxidation of the conductors at the junction, and physically by movement of the cable (simple flexing the cable, or reconnecting the device, accidents that tug, etc.).

Yes, plenty of people have done direct crimp ends and they may be serviceable for any effective service life. However, it's something that's completely unacceptable in any professional/commercial installation.

Crimping ends directly on the cable is NOT the only option, not only that, it is not the best option. It's also unnecessarily tedius separating the pairs, ordering them, inserting them into the end crimping. A jack a MUCH faster way to terminate a solid copper, is infinitely more serviceable, adaptable to future changes.


You would never use a PATCH cable for an entire inside run. That's not what a patch cable is. A patch cable connects your terminated IW/solid copper wire to the device (or device-device). Cable for IW is SOLID copper, if you flex it back and forth, or bend it too sharply, you can break the conductors. Take a patch cable and length of solid copper bulk cable and flex it, you can IMMEDIATELY tell the difference.

PATCH cables are stranded cable, which makes them more expensive, but are meant to flex and be service, it also allows you to adjust the length by simply replacing the section to the IW termination. The IW should never move once installed, yes you should route in a way that guarantees this. You cannot guarantee this if IW is connected directly to a device. Even the mass of the cable itself can be enough to pull a direct terminated connection over time.

You would use a premade patch cable for the length between the jack and the device, because it's cheaper, easier, faster, and better quality than what you can make.



There are surface mount boxes that the jacks can go inside, if it wont' be a wall plate or keystone patch panel.