Is the 9 REALLY still fine 🤔

[Jimi Jah]

50 years ago the average man was 5'9" at 160 lbs.

A 9mm was plenty or the Germans wouldn't have used it.

Today the average man is 5'11" and over 200 lbs. You now have more ballistic gel to pass through.

The 9mm may not be as effective as it once was. Modern expansion also limits bullet penetration.

To be sure with a fat @ss use 357 mag. It also makes a great lever rifle round.

[TrappedinCalifornia]

Any time you're thinking about personal defense, you have to think holistically. Don't think about things in isolation. Yes a .45 has more ft/lbs energy (and therefore theoretical stopping power) compared to 9mm. But in a self-defense situation are you going to fire one shot and call it a day?

I once had a student with a .45. I measured how long it took him to put 3 rounds of .45 into a 5" circle at 5 yards. I then gave him my 9mm--which he had never shot before--and in the time it took him to put 3 rounds of .45 on target he was able to put 5 rounds of 9mm on target. So then the question is do you consider 5 rounds of 9mm better, equal or worse than 3 rounds of .45. Well by the numbers 5 rounds of 9mm have 50% more ft/lbs of energy and are 67% more chances to hit.

I was taught, long ago, that it was a 'waste of time' to put more than two rounds in the body. If two won't slow an aggressor down or stop them, then the third goes to the lighthouse. It's what the triple tap is all about. The idea always was that if two aren't sufficient, regardless of the reason (e.g., someone high on meth, bad bullet placement, whatever), the third needs to be more definitive. Remember, this goes back to a time when not 'everyone' was carrying a 'high capacity' firearm which shot like a Hollywood gun, where it never needed to be reloaded.

Now, for those who might argue that such control is unlikely in a real life scenario, three things are usually cited and need to be borne in mind. First, it's something which has been standard fodder in self-defense training for decades. Second, emptying a magazine (spray and pray) into someone is liable to create legal problems, even if the aggressor is on meth. Third, is it really a good idea having someone without a certain amount of control in stressful situations running around armed? The first and third items typically come down to training. The second item has become a never ending discord in relation to DA's and their willingness to prosecute.

Holistic/Wholistic thinking involves far more than how much lead is put on target. It also involves where on the target the lead is placed. Again, it's the fodder of many who train and there's no, single answer. Just like the one gal I saw on YouTube pointed out, if five rounds of 22 LR to the groin doesn't do the job, the sixth round goes... What about those trainers who insist that a shot to the hip bone will likely shatter it, slowing down the confrontation at the least? Center mass vs. more 'accurate' targeting vs. accommodation for stress? If five rounds is better than three, wouldn't fifteen rounds be better than five? Ultimately, wouldn't exploring every available option in actually avoiding having to draw/fire be a better alternative altogether? Isn't that the essence of debate in relation to those who resist the Castle Doctrine? What was that again about DA's and their willingness to prosecute? What was that regarding trainers each having their own, individual ideas as to what is likely with regard to individuals and stressful situations?

The double/triple tap concepts have been around for quite some time, in part, due to the fact that surviving the initial fight is only one aspect in surviving. Next comes the legal end and that too plays into holistic/wholistic thinking. The legal end involves more than just the DA in their decision to prosecute or not. It also involves survivors and survivors' families. At what point might a jury decide that "X" number of rounds were sufficient and anything more than that indicated... something else in play? Remember, the idea is to 'neutralize the threat,' not necessarily 'kill the bad guy.'

[AirCav]

Aim small miss small, ... Forget the torso.... Go for the nose LOL

[Garbcollector]

357 sig for the win

[acaligunner]

357 sig for the win

357 magnum in a pistol 🙂 , maybe go 10mm with a 155gr hp ?

[Sacperformance]

I’m no ballistics expert….. I have mostly 9mm pistols, but you guys convinced me to get a Python 357 in 4.25 inch/blued finish….. it should be here Saturday. 😎

[AirCav]

I’m no ballistics expert….. I have mostly 9mm pistols, but you guys convinced me to get a Python 357 in 4.25 inch/blued finish….. it should be here Saturday. 😎

Wood or rubber grip ? ....... I bought a new 6" python and a 6" Anaconda the rubber Anaconda grip forced me to get one for the Python, ...... The Python wood grip trigger housing comes back and hits my middle finger on recoil, .... Different placement with the rubber

[Sacperformance]

Wood or rubber grip ? ....... I bought a new 6" python and a 6" Anaconda the rubber Anaconda grip forced me to get one for the Python, ...... The Python wood grip trigger housing comes back and hits my middle finger on recoil, .... Different placement with the rubber

wood for now, once I get it I’ll have to adjust. I lost the first joint of my trigger finger 35 years ago. I have pretty large hands, but all my guns take some fitting to get a comfortable grip. Large frame double stacks are pretty much impossible for me to get a clean trigger press with.

[acaligunner]

wood for now, once I get it I’ll have to adjust. I lost the first joint of my trigger finger 35 years ago. I have pretty large hands, but all my guns take some fitting to get a comfortable grip. Large frame double stacks are pretty much impossible for me to get a clean trigger press with.

Enjoy the 357 magnum I hope it brings you years of good service 🙂

[CALI-gula]

9X19mm is over 125 years old and will likely be around and the most popular choice for as long as until ray guns are a thing.

.

[Duck Killer]

9mm is a generic term. The round varies significantly from weak loads to +p+ and hotter. Bullets weights vary from 90 grains to over 147.

9mm by far has the most range loads available of any semi auto pistol caliber. It also offers the most capacity. Its recoil is one of the least.

As for is it enough for today verse a 45. Yes it is by far if you are including magazine capacity. It rate of fire is also higher and easier to control. Most people have more difficulty hitting there target then anything else. It doesn’t matter how big your bullet is if you miss.

[Duck Killer]

9X19mm is over 125 years old and will likely be around and the most popular choice for as long as until ray guns are a thing.

.

It will still be used after ray guns.

[AirCav]

We owe a lot to the 9mm after all it gave birth to the phrase, ... Double Tap ... When 1 bullet just wont due, 🤩

[acaligunner]

9mm is a generic term. The round varies significantly from weak loads to +p+ and hotter. Bullets weights vary from 90 grains to over 147.

9mm by far has the most range loads available of any semi auto pistol caliber. It also offers the most capacity. Its recoil is one of the least.

As for is it enough for today verse a 45. Yes it is by far if you are including magazine capacity. It rate of fire is also higher and easier to control. Most people have more difficulty hitting there target then anything else. It doesn’t matter how big your bullet is if you miss.

I often wonder about “ capacity “ didn’t SGT York kill 5 enemy combat soldiers with 1 shot each of 230gr hardball ( fmj ) ammo 🤔.

Also, if we are speaking of “ it matters where you hit “ wouldn’t a 230gr Hollowpoint round that can expand to 3/4” to almost 1” be gtg ?

The 45acp is more of a push than a 9mm +p or +P+ to me in recoil, the polymer frame pistols do a nice job in taking out some of the flex but still 45acp can he had in 230 ( non + velocity) and still penetrate and expand reliably.

So these are the issues that I have with 45 / 9mm ~ The 9mm / pistols have come a long way with lightweight reliable high capacity offerings - very good job rounds available, but tit for tat that 45 round 😃.

Thanks you and appreciate the post 🙂

[Sandspider500]

T



Those that have traded their 45 for 9 will say that there's no difference between the two due to "new bullet technology".

Same bullet design, don't trust your eyes, there's no difference.