Did Anyone Shoot at Lytle Creek on 8/4/2010?

[saber]

I went to shoot my OLL and a couple of 22's at Lytle Creek on Saturday. It was a good shooting except that I got a visit from the Park Ranger (think it was a Park Ranger).

He was apparently checking all of the AR and AK rifles to make sure that they were legally configured. He was going down the shooting line, checking everyone's rifles out.

My OLL has a BB so he went up to my rifle, pressed on the BB, noted it was fixed into the rifle like it should be, and then went on to the next guy.

I asked him why he was doing that and he said that they had a problem with some illegal rifles a couple of weeks ago and they were checking.

Just curious if anyone else had a similar experience.

[Mac Attack]

Interesting. Did he run into anyone who had a RAW, if so did he ask for proof?

[jermedic]

I have been going to Lytle Creek for years and never seen a Ranger up there.

[TomHynes]

What happens if you say no?

What happens if you tell the Ranger "No, you cannot inspect my gun".

I suspect he is going to inspect it anyway, but you may have a credible 4th Amendment defense if it turns out the bullet button was installed incorrectly or the barrel was .1" short.

[J-cat]

Then he has to move on.

[Nodda Duma]

Title should be "9/4/2010"

[Scratch705]

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=339429

looks like they are making their checks now instead of just driving on through.

if you refuse, all he has to do is just stand by you and watch you until he is satisfied. cause all he has to do is wait for you to start shooting and have to reload to find out if you have a BB or not.

[J-cat]

And what happens when he realizes you don't have a BB?

[SickofSoCal]

And what happens when he realizes you don't have a BB?

Yeah, how the devil is he supposed to know if it's a RAW or not? Do we now live in Nazi Germany?

Guilty until proven innocent.

[J-cat]

He would have to detain you and run the serial number. The problem is that possessing a RAW is not a crime. The courts require a reasonable suspicion of criminal activity in order to justify a detention. The question is whether someone shooting an assault weapon at the range rises to that level. While unregistered AW's are illegal, RAW's are legal. Unregistered vehicles are illegal too, but you don't see cops pulling people over for no reason. The penal code does not specifically allow cops to detain anyone with an AW to check the serial number like the vehicle code does for cars. And even there, the courts require a law violation before cops are allowed to stop you and check the VIN.

I will sue the first a-hole that harasses me at the range.

[omgwtfbbq]

It was my understanding that it is state law that an LEO can request to inspect any firearm in your possession to ensure in complies with the state's laws. As for legal reasoning for detention, the fact that your rifle was (speaking hypothetically) inspected and was found not to comply with state laws would probably be reasoning enough to detain a suspect until either verification that the rifle is an RAW or not.

I have to take a centrist view of this situation. I have no problem proving my rifle's legality to any courteous LEO who wishes to know. My reason is based on where I live and the element that sometimes populates the local ranges. We have a lot of gangbanging types who bring their illegally purchased or built AKs and ARs etc. to the ranges and do very unsafe things with them. However like I said, it's a regional thing, LEOs in other areas maybe aren't as trustworthy.

[paul0660]

It was my understanding that it is state law that an LEO can request to inspect any firearm in your possession to ensure in complies with the state's laws.

Nope. Perhaps you are thinking of the 12031(e) check when an officer determines if a gun is loaded in an area where LOC is illegal.

I too would roll over in this situation for a friendly LEO, but he does not have the authority to handle someone's gun or ask them to display its features.

[Mr Wizard]

I was up there yesterday 9/6. I asked Jeff the manager and the RO about this inspection on 9/4. Yes, the LEO have been checking a lot more recently and yes they are authorized to do so, since the range is on fed land.
I didn't see any LEO myself, but the USFS ranger drove through in his puke green truck as usual.

All my firearms are compliant, so I didn't worry about that, but I was surprised to find that my brand new (purchased 9/5) 10/30 mag would hold 11 rounds. It was too tight to even feed properly, but I'm sure I could have been nailed for it.

[paul0660]

but I'm sure I could have been nailed for it.

But how? I guess these LEOs have the authority to be there, but they sure as heck can't pick up your mag and load it, or ask you to force an eleventh round into it. If you talk about the eleventh round and he hears you, or he sees you load it (and counts 11) or hears 11 shots, only then do you have a problem.

[Bill Carson]

It was my understanding that it is state law that an LEO can request to inspect any firearm in your possession to ensure in complies with the state's laws. As for legal reasoning for detention, the fact that your rifle was (speaking hypothetically) inspected and was found not to comply with state laws would probably be reasoning enough to detain a suspect until either verification that the rifle is an RAW or not.

I have to take a centrist view of this situation. I have no problem proving my rifle's legality to any courteous LEO who wishes to know. My reason is based on where I live and the element that sometimes populates the local ranges. We have a lot of gangbanging types who bring their illegally purchased or built AKs and ARs etc. to the ranges and do very unsafe things with them. However like I said, it's a regional thing, LEOs in other areas maybe aren't as trustworthy.

FUD