A hypothetical question, now that we're halfway across the Rubicon

[as_rocketman]

This is related to politics, and as such may not be welcome here. Not trying to cause problems. If this spirals out of control, please nuke the thread, kthx.

--

This is not the point of the thread, but let me make my biases clear up front: I personally, strongly recommend COVID-19 vaccination for almost all adults. I do so solely on the basis of proven science. I do not, however, at all support Biden's attempt at a national mandate, particularly in the underhanded way it's being carried out. Once you decide to push people around "for their own good," no matter how overwhelming the benefit, it's only a matter of time before you start pushing them around for much less honorable causes, and it only goes downhill from there.

I also think this will be counterproductive. The mandate creates a reward for not getting vaccinated -- because it defies a hated authority figure. I am vaccinated but it was entirely my choice, no one offered me so much as a free doughnut. Those times are over.

As an aside, the Tea Act would actually have lowered prices for the Colonists, but they had every right to say no, and their not completely nonviolent resistance remains a celebrated part of our heritage.

With that out of the way --

Suppose Sleepy Joe makes this offer:

I have seen the light. While I strongly believe in COVID-19 vaccination, I am cancelling all of my executive orders regarding vaccination immediately. Furthermore, if we reach 90% vaccination within three months, I will resign from the office of President no later than Christmas day.

Would you, then?

He won't make the offer, and I make no judgments, just curious. Keeping the responses anonymous.

[SanDiego619]

I wouldn't take it, I don't want the shot. And even if biden resigned, Kamala would step in.

But even if he had a magic wand and said Trump would replace him if 90% got vaccinated, I still wouldn't take the shot. I am not going to allow the government to coerce me into taking an experimental shot that I do not need.

[2shotjoe]

resign? lol, nice fantasy land you live in.

[stonefly-2]

I have 2 priorities,

staying healthy and not capitulating to what is so obviously going on.

That would be a double no.

[jimmykan]

How do we know that he would actually resign once the conditions were met?

In 2020, Biden said he would not impose mask or vaccine mandates. And look now...

[theLBC]

there is no "proven science" when it comes to these mRNA vaccines.

these "vaccines" ramp up your body to create the worst component of the virus, spike proteins, before you are even exposed to the virus.
if you are exposed, your body already has much of the machinery needed to replicate the virus, and it is no wonder that vaccinated have higher viral loads.

i might consider the clotshot in 3 years when there is some science behind it.

[theLBC]

pfizer paid $2.7 billion because they lied about "the science"
purdue has to pay $6.7 billion because they lied about "the science".

[M14 Junkie]

I haven't been sick with a flu for decades, no lie, last time was mid 1980's.

I remember it distinctly because it was right after returning from an overseas trip.

I have never gotten a flu shot since they started pushing them, when was it, the early nineties 91-92? The reason? Because, back when they did start pushing them, there were enough side effects reported that it was in the news, and I had not been sick with a virus for almost a decade.

So, I said Fock it, and always refused it when offered at my doc's office.

I certainly wouldn't inject some crap such as this that was conjured up in a few months.

[stix213]

Biden said he would not mandate before he did mandate. He said he would get all Americans out of Afghanistan before he left over a hundred behind. I wouldn't trust that Biden would keep to his word here either.

But hypothetically let's say he was somehow bound to this one promise. My answer would still be no, because of the reasons I'm already saying no. No amount of bribery changes those reasons, and my principles are too important to me to be bought at any price.

My reasons primarily are:

1) I'm expecting long term side effects to be an enormous problem for these vaccines. No long term data exists to say otherwise, and it isn't the responsibility of the skeptical to prove there is a problem long term, but it is the responsibility of those who are pushing the vaccines to prove there is not.

Issues such as ADE are conveniently ignored or treated as conspiracy theories, even though they are well known proven problems which plague vaccine development, and why no other vaccines are rushed in this manner. Data such as blood titers for virus levels in the vaccinated vs unvaccinated could prove or disprove something like ADE was occurring, but either the CDC doesn't want to share the data (which sounds like the data shows something bad), or they can't be bothered to collect the data for something so incredibly important. Either way, for myself and family I must decline to participate.

2) It is now clear the vaccines have very little impact on reducing or preventing the spread of the virus. They likely have some impact, but it is probably on the level of washing your hands, and not at all capable of getting us to so called herd immunity. As such the primary benefit, if any, is to reduce your chances of serious illness.

But I'm not in a group, my kids are not in a group, which is under threat of serious illness from this virus. The need to get the entire population to a very high vaccination rate is itself false. They are outright lying to you about it. I'm not putting myself and kids at risk of side effects for something that provides us with no benefit, that is child abuse, so I must decline to participate.

3) Because only certain specific groups are actually vulnerable to the virus, and because the vaccine's only real potential benefit is to improve the chances for those people, the vaccines should be reserved ONLY for those people.

Viruses adapt to their environment. With the vaccines widespread, you're increasing the chances that the virus adapts to the vaccines. This greatly increases the risk for the vulnerable groups, compared to only giving the vulnerable the vaccines. Because we are getting a majority of the population vaccinated, we will see the dominant strains of the virus be those adapted to the vaccines, and we will see more people in high risk groups die even though they are vaccinated. I won't participate in wiping out the elderly and otherwise vulnerable, so I must decline to participate.

[M14 Junkie]

Biden said he would not mandate before he did mandate. He said he would get all Americans out of Afghanistan before he left over a hundred behind. I wouldn't trust that Biden would keep to his word here either.

But hypothetically let's say he was somehow bound to this one promise. My answer would still be no, because of the reasons I'm already saying no. No amount of bribery changes those reasons, and my principles are too important to me to be bought at any price.

My reasons primarily are:

1) I'm expecting long term side effects to be an enormous problem for these vaccines. No long term data exists to say otherwise, and it isn't the responsibility of the skeptical to prove there is a problem long term, but it is the responsibility of those who are pushing the vaccines to prove there is not.

Issues such as ADE are conveniently ignored or treated as conspiracy theories, even though they are well known proven problems which plague vaccine development, and why no other vaccines are rushed in this manner. Data such as blood titers for virus levels in the vaccinated vs unvaccinated could prove or disprove something like ADE was occurring, but either the CDC doesn't want to share the data (which sounds like the data shows something bad), or they can't be bothered to collect the data for something so incredibly important. Either way, for myself and family I must decline to participate.

2) It is now clear the vaccines have very little impact on reducing or preventing the spread of the virus. They likely have some impact, but it is probably on the level of washing your hands, and not at all capable of getting us to so called herd immunity. As such the primary benefit, if any, is to reduce your chances of serious illness.

But I'm not in a group, my kids are not in a group, which is under threat of serious illness from this virus. The need to get the entire population to a very high vaccination rate is itself false. They are outright lying to you about it. I'm not putting myself and kids at risk of side effects for something that provides us with no benefit, that is child abuse, so I must decline to participate.

3) Because only certain specific groups are actually vulnerable to the virus, and because the vaccine's only real potential benefit is to improve the chances for those people, the vaccines should be reserved ONLY for those people.

Viruses adapt to their environment. With the vaccines widespread, you're increasing the chances that the virus adapts to the vaccines. This greatly increases the risk for the vulnerable groups, compared to only giving the vulnerable the vaccines. Because we are getting a majority of the population vaccinated, we will see the dominant strains of the virus be those adapted to the vaccines, and we will see more people in high risk groups die even though they are vaccinated. I won't participate in wiping out the elderly and otherwise vulnerable, so I must decline to participate.

Very. Well. Said.

[theLBC]

[Dirtlaw]

Rocket Man,


"we're halfway across the Rubicon" made me think the post was about something altogether different. Beyond any doubt, however, the United States is going through incredible changes (mostly bad ones I might add). I like you so I sure hope you are a Christian. The best advice I can give anyone is that if you are a "prepper" faith in the Lord needs to be in your backpack.

[OlderThanDirt]

They can vaccinate my cold dead body.

[SPUTTER]

Life is short and I realize that what matters most is what happens to my soul after death therefore as Christian, I cannot partake of this. I choose to stand with Christ and embrace this challenge before me.

What I don't understand Rocketman, as a smart as you are, you can't see what's going on here. The Biden Admin. run in the same circles as the Davos group, they even adopted their slogan, "Build Back Better". These people are not Christians. They have an agenda which includes the destruction of the current system, reducing the human population by 2/3rds and enslaving the rest into some type of dystopian trans-humanist fantasy. The shots are an important element to this agenda and as a Christian I view them as acceptance into the beast system as described in the Bible.

The issue before us is beyond a political one, it's about the future of humanity. The more of this agenda people accept, the closer they get to enslavement, and they will be lucky if they survive to be a slave because most people are just willingly punching their one-way ticket to hell. There's no point in history were free will matters most.

[scbauer]

Pretty sure people already expressed this, but anybody who would sell out and get the vax in order for some political purposes (to get Biden out of office) is a moron. The implication would be that the ONLY reason they aren’t getting it now is due to some political reason, not a science-based or other personal-preference-based reason.

So, do what you want why you want, but I don’t know anyone who says they aren’t getting vaxxed because of politics… well, except for all the democrats like Biden and Kamala who said they don’t trust Trump so they aren’t getting the vaccine. But they don’t count.