Using a 3-gun shotgun for HD?

[maxicon]

I've been asking about a HD semi-auto in the WTB forum, and a few folks have offered up shotguns set up for 3 gun. These generally have 22" barrels, as opposed to the typical 18-20" HD shotgun setup.

Aside from the barrel length difference, is there anything else I'm missing that would make one less suitable for HD? There seem to be a lot more 3 gun shotguns than HD semis out there.

[HighLander51]

Like this? No, actually I use my 18" Benelli M1....

[3GunFunShooter]

With a 22" barrel, the mag tube and barrel with be the same lenght with 8+1 capacity, which is the max capacity for tactical division.

[eccvets]

dear lord, you really think that 2-4 inchs will make a shotgun useless for home defence? seriously? if so you might wanna go with a handgun...

[maxicon]

dear lord, you really think that 2-4 inchs will make a shotgun useless for home defence? seriously? if so you might wanna go with a handgun...

Hmm... Not a very helpful response, I'm afraid. You may not have actually read my original post (longer than a tweet, I know).

Note that I didn't say the longer barrel would make it "useless for home defense", just that that's the main difference in 3 gun shotguns. The question I asked was about other 3 gun features.

I don't know about your house, but in mine, my hallway is 36" wide, and yes, 2-4" does make a difference in handling in tight spaces, which is why most HD shotguns are near the legal minimum, and why I'm considering barrel length.

FWIW, my primary HD guns are handguns, but I use a shotgun for backup, and am switching to a semi.

Thanks anyway!

[esskay]

There are many flavors of shotguns set up for 3-gun. Assuming you are looking mostly at those built for Tactical division, not Open.

Off the top of my head, some things to think about in no particular order:

* Tend to have 21-24" barrels, with equally long magazine tubes. You've already identified the issue with overall length. In most typical homes, a 44" long shotgun can really be cumbersome. Not useless, but not optimal either.

* Consider balance of the weapon. A tube fully loaded with 8 rounds of buckshot or slugs is not a trivial amount of weight. Some trainers actually prefer a +1 or +2 extension on social shotguns rather than a full tube for overall balance and handling. (I run a full tube on my HD shotgun)

* Sighting systems. Many 3-gun shotguns may have fiber front beads on vent ribs with no rear sight. Great for instinctive shooting, not ideal for slug shooting. Think about what you want to run, and how it will serve you in low/no light.

* Light. HD shotgun should have a light, consider how you are going to get one on the weapon with an effective way to actuate. Surefire integrated foreends are the gold standard.

* Ammo storage. HD shotguns benefit from weapon mounted ammo carriage (i.e. side saddle). Should be a non-issue, if the gun doesn't already have one (often 3gungear style velcro/elastic) you can add one.

* Reliability. Any serious 3-gunner will prioritize reliability since malfunctions will destroy your scores. 3-gun shotguns can get run pretty hard, so this is a good thing to shake out reliability. Benellis are the gold standard on this front for 3-gun. However, for defensive use, you may be looking at LE-type loads such as the tactical reduced recoil slugs and buckshot. You will want to be sure your chosen loads are dead nuts reliable in the gun, which is not always guaranteed with semi auto shotguns.

* Feeding. Custom 3-gun shotguns will have gunsmithing on them to make loading easier and more smooth (beveled openings, welded carriers etc). Just be sure they did a good job! If not done properly can sometimes cause malfunctions...

* Other customizations. Some custom 3-gun SGs have other work, like lightened bolts, etc. Up to you whether you'd want this in a HD shotgun.

* Select loads. Look at the manual of arms for "select slug"/etc scenarios and decide which you like.

[maxicon]

Thanks - this is exactly what I needed!

It's the reliability that attracts me to 3 gun gear. I'll think some on the other issues, but it's sounding like an 11-87P may be the best bet on my price range.

[BigDogatPlay]

An excellent reply by esskay, but a couple of additional thoughts / opinions on a couple of key points.

** Balance, which also goes to weight. in a 22 to 24 inch barrel with a full mag tube you're going to have a very muzzle heavy gun. Adding a light adds weight, and adding a Surefire dedicated forearm adds a bunch more.

** Light, absolutely a must on any HD shotgun, IMO. Yes Surefire is the gold standard and it's what I run on my 870P for personal defense at home. But again, if you are running a longer barrel with an 8 round tube, it's going to get mighty heavy.

** Ammo storage, maybe I'm crazy but if you run an 8 round tube full how much more additional ammo do you need on an HD gun? I'm interested to hear the opinions of others on this. I use a +2 on my 870, with an 18 inch barrel and a six round sidesaddle and for the weight I sometimes think it's too much. For the kind of setup the OP envisions my mind goes back to a Speedfeed stock with integral ammo storage. Those allow four rounds which would get an 8 round tubed gun up to 12 on board, which is how many I have on my 870 with a sidesaddle. And having the spare ammo behind the receiver would help balance the gun out I think.

FWIW, my primary HD guns are handguns, but I use a shotgun for backup, and am switching to a semi.

Well put. The role of the handgun is to keep you in the fight long enough to reach your long gun so the logic in the above is impeccable.

And as far as a semi for HD another thing to think about is how it will be stored for ready use. Bolt open and ghost loaded? Bolt closed on an empty chamber? Bolt closed with a round chambered and safety on?

This goes back to the KISS principle and what makes pumps so efficacious in the role. The shooter's hands never have to leave the operating positions on the gun until it's time to reload or select slug. Not to totally dissuade but these are considerations that need to be thought through and then drilled thoroughly once the decision is made to go semi..

[maxicon]

Thanks - more to consider.

I've had a 1300 Defender (7+1) for a while, and didn't shoot it much because of the recoil. A few years back, I decided to get serious about it, and set it up with a light, sling, and Specops stock. That helped the recoil and I practiced a lot more, but the lack of drop with the Specops ruins the pointability for me, and I really prefer an intuitive pointer for HD.

After some thought, I've decided to go with a semi for a while, as I enjoy shooting my 1100s a good bit. I thought about a Compstock for the 1300, but I'm not sure if I want to keep throwing money at it.

I also don't have a good way of locking up a shotgun, so the 1300 lives in the safe. I like Gunvaults for handguns, and need something for a shotgun that would keep it out of sight but quickly accessible, and nobody had anything great for that last time I looked.

I figure no matter how hard I think it through, I won't really know how well it'll work out for me until I get 200-300 rounds through it. My joints are getting even more finicky about recoil, so I may even get my 20g semi cut down.

I appreciate all the advice!

[Reductio]

** Ammo storage, maybe I'm crazy but if you run an 8 round tube full how much more additional ammo do you need on an HD gun? I'm interested to hear the opinions of others on this. I use a +2 on my 870, with an 18 inch barrel and a six round sidesaddle and for the weight I sometimes think it's too much. For the kind of setup the OP envisions my mind goes back to a Speedfeed stock with integral ammo storage. Those allow four rounds which would get an 8 round tubed gun up to 12 on board, which is how many I have on my 870 with a sidesaddle. And having the spare ammo behind the receiver would help balance the gun out I think.

I'm always a worst-case senario guy. I've got 5 in the tube, 6 on the stock, and 4 slugs in the side-saddle. If it sounds like there's some serious **** going on, then I can grab the bandolier that sits right next to it.

No, I'm not worried about missing that much.... though it happens. I'm more worried about a multiple perp situation, and not getting one-shot instant stops. Better have too much ammo than not enough.

And yes, got a Fenix TK10 on the fore-end.

[Reductio]

For the OP in regards to recoil....

Don't get a comp-stock or anything fancy at first. Try a limbsaver pad, and low-recoil buck like THIS: it patters extremely well, and if it functions well in a semi, recoil is very manageable.

[maxicon]

The compstock would be for the pump, if I decide to keep it. I thought the specops would be a perfect solution, but nobody talks about the lack of drop and dramatic shift in pointability they cause.

The compstock appears to be a traditional stock with a more typical drop at the heel, but you never know until you try.

I like the recoil profile of my semis, and the idea of a speedfeed is pretty appealing too. I've already got a good stock of that same low recoil LE buck, so as long as the new semi feeds a few hundred rounds ok, I should be good to go.

[BigDogatPlay]

I'm always a worst-case senario guy. I've got 5 in the tube, 6 on the stock, and 4 slugs in the side-saddle. If it sounds like there's some serious **** going on, then I can grab the bandolier that sits right next to it.

I hear you... I keep a Mossberg 500 with my bug out kit that has a six shot side saddle and a 25 round sling for exactly that reason.

I also don't have a good way of locking up a shotgun, so the 1300 lives in the safe. I like Gunvaults for handguns, and need something for a shotgun that would keep it out of sight but quickly accessible, and nobody had anything great for that last time I looked.

A couple of potential solutions....

http://www.lockinggunracks.com/

http://www.blac-rac.com/products/sho...-products.html...

[maxicon]

I hear you... I keep a Mossberg 500 with my bug out kit that has a six shot side saddle and a 25 round sling for exactly that reason.

Yeah, I'm thinking my 1300 would make a pretty good trunk/BOB gun if I switch to something different. They don't bring much used, so it would be a cost-effective use of it, and it's pretty well proven at this point.

A couple of potential solutions....

http://www.lockinggunracks.com/

http://www.blac-rac.com/products/sho...-products.html...

Thanks, I'll look into them.

[jackandblood]

I thought the longer barrels were for sporting purposes. That way you didnt spend $400 or what have you on something's going to be collecting dust. Then again i've heard 18" is fine for clay shooting.