Saco extractor

[LynnJr]

SigStroker
When brass gets work hardened it will crack on you rather than form to fit the chamber. It doesn't shatter like glass but it also doesn't conform like new brass does.

Diver
Loading the bullets long as you have posted doesn't really help. Lots of shooters doing it but if you bump that shoulder too much the only cure is to create a false shoulder at the neck/shoulder junction and really palming the bolt closed.
I would not attempt it at a match as you really need a tight fit on the false shoulder.
To test the "jam a bullet into the lands" theory you would take a fired case and full length size it without removing the spent primer. You want just for this experiment to over-bump the shoulder a couple thousandths.
Now seat a bullet long and close the bolt on the round.
Measure the overall length.
Put the round back in the gun and dry fire the round.
Remeasure the overall length.
If jamming the bullet will hold the case from moving forward your overall length will stay the same length.
If the firing pin hitting the primer overcomes the necks grasp on the bullet the overall length will be shorter.
Everyone needs to test this for themselves to see what they get.

[diver160651]

Saco extractor

Such a small difference causing blown cases, those must be VERY hot.

It can go fast on old brass

BTW this image below is the one that had the guys on their cans, jump up and l looked at my dumbness and jacked face. 6mm for scale


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[sigstroker]

Such a small difference causing blown cases, those must be VERY hot.

[diver160651]

If this was me, once I realized the shoulders were bumped too far, I would have reseated to bullets for a light/moderate jam to set headspace and used them only for practice/club matches. I have a FL die dedicated to each chamber, to minimize this possibility.

I understand Lynn's suggestion for future sizing, but I am not sure how reseating would have helped or saved the cases.

Normally shoot for about .001 bump FL using redding bushing dies for connivence.. with different brass. In this case I bumped about .003 on brass that was run very hot for a number of cycles.

FWIW I understand, that .001 target floats a hair if nothing else to measurement error and a tiny bit of various harness even with my Benchmade (edited LOL, Thats my Knife - "Bench-source") annealer.

So, again, I just am not sure how reseating could have saved the brass, or make this good for matches were you have time limits and may need deal with case extraction.

I am not trying to be argumentative, if it at all seem that way please accept my apologies.. (I've been told thats how I come across when I post - it is more a poor skill set that anything else) I truly am interested in learning this one.

This thread has had some assume info from Lynn, AR15, Kendog etc..

Jt

[buffybuster]

I ran Lapua way too hot for too many loads and over-bumped (turned the micrometer, slightly in error) the last time on about 1000 hand loads.. Prior to that, the internal ring did not show up. I decided to run them rather than toss them out. In that thousand rounds, I had maybe 18-20.. while that is only 2% ish, to me, thats a lot.

I also shot a lot of positional matches and seen others -- it is common enough that I carry a 12gauge brush in my pack. You see enough hand loads shot with people reusing their cases to the end and they show up. Often, it is the extraction that is the final straw.

Yes, every hand-load should be checked with a paper clip, every time, but when your shooting as much as some matches require and have two shooters sometimes we get lazy.. As an example of round count, the SHTC last weekend required about 500 rifle rounds (targets 350-1325) and 120 pistol rounds (targets close). Some matches we might only burn 100-250. But dang it adds up, so the chances of seeing failures is higher just due the to volume. This year I switched to factory ammo, It is NOT as good, but I was becoming a slave to reloading. Truth be told, the factory is good enough in this type of shooting that it is NOT what keeps one out of the top.

If this was me, once I realized the shoulders were bumped too far, I would have reseated to bullets for a light/moderate jam to set headspace and used them only for practice/club matches. I have a FL die dedicated to each chamber, to minimize this possibility.

[LynnJr]

Diver
Get a Warner full length die that matches your reamer and you will never have another separation.
I am not a fan of Warner Tools business practices after I bought a 300 WSM die from them but there die if properly fit to your reamer is the gold standard of resizing dies.

[ar15barrels]

Okay, you know someone is going to ask - paper clip?

More here.

[sigstroker]

Okay, you know someone is going to ask - paper clip?

[diver160651]

Food for thought indeed.... One wonders why you've have "lots of case-head separations"...

I ran Lapua way too hot for too many loads and over-bumped (turned the micrometer, slightly in error) the last time on about 1000 hand loads.. Prior to that, the internal ring did not show up. I decided to run them rather than toss them out. In that thousand rounds, I had maybe 18-20.. while that is only 2% ish, to me, thats a lot.

I also shot a lot of positional matches and seen others -- it is common enough that I carry a 12gauge brush in my pack. You see enough hand loads shot with people reusing their cases to the end and they show up. Often, it is the extraction that is the final straw.

Yes, every hand-load should be checked with a paper clip, every time, but when your shooting as much as some matches require and have two shooters sometimes we get lazy.. As an example of round count, the SHTC last weekend required about 500 rifle rounds (targets 350-1325) and 120 pistol rounds (targets close). Some matches we might only burn 100-250. But dang it adds up, so the chances of seeing failures is higher just due the to volume. This year I switched to factory ammo, It is NOT as good, but I was becoming a slave to reloading. Truth be told, the factory is good enough in this type of shooting that it is NOT what keeps one out of the top.

[buffybuster]

Just food for thought

> On my Deviants with the extractors as mentioned, I have had lots of case-head separations; with no gasses in the face.

Food for thought indeed.... One wonders why you've have "lots of case-head separations"...

[LynnJr]

Exactly the vents in the bolt were to vent gas when you popped a primer common with the hotter loads.

[ar15barrels]

The vents in bolts are ONLY to deal with gas that enters the bolt through the firing pin hole.
No amount of bolt venting will stop the gas/debris that exits the chamber in other places than the firing pin hole.

When you reach that point, you have done something REALLY wrong.

Some designs handle that much better than others.
The more open the bolt face, the more places for stuff to get out of the chamber during a high pressure event.



Controlled feed actions are some of the worst at handling high pressure events.
Fully shrouded bolt faces handle high pressure events the best.

[LynnJr]

SigStroker
That post was from James Calhoun fine shooting bullets because my picture taking skills are horrible.
The drilled bolt has been around for longer than me and I am as old as dust.
In the old days before everyone sued everyone when you had a problem people figured out a cure unlike today.

[sigstroker]

That's pretty cool that Remington would do that. Of course that would be lawsuit bait these days because they would be admitting their rifle wasn't perfect.

I liked those 600's, a friend had one. The Howa gas relief ports are located in about the same place as that template.

[diver160651]

It won't fix those who insist upon shooting a 308 in a 270 but it helps.