357 Maximum

[dfletcher]

Dies, brass & bullets arrived - I bought the dies because even though I have 38/357 already I don't want to fiddle with readjusting or spacers. I think this barrel will be used as a "35 caliber" light rifle, a good match for my 16" 30 carbine Contender barrel. I suppose I'll use H110 or Win 296, the manuals say most are compressed loads.

[lostinsurf]

The OP said -
I assume the Contender and Encore can be loaded, with respect to this cartridge, to the same level, correct? I've looked through the data and see no difference in load levels.

The answer is Yes they may share ammo without problems. I assume both TC receivers are rated the same to handle any recipe given in the manuals.

However, the longer barrel in my Encore obviously gets higher velocity.
The TCs will get higher velocity than revolvers because there is no B/C gap.

[Wrangler John]

When Elgin Gates designed the .357 Super Mag he had brass cases welded up out of two sections of standard .357 S&W Magnum cases to extend case length to 1.605". The concept caught on to provide sufficient power to topple the steel ram silhouette at 200 meters in International Handgun Metallic Silhouette (IHMSA) competition. I recall that Gates worked with Remington to produce the cases and loaded ammo. Ruger and Dan Wesson both produced revolvers, some with 10" barrels and target sights especially for IHMSA production class competition, and Thompson Center added 10" and 15" barrels.

When Remington adopted the cartridge they had to rename it .357 Maximum as S&W owns the copyright to any handgun cartridge name including the word "Magnum" or contractions of Magnum. Gates, the founder of IHMSA also ordered a batch of specially head stamped cases offering them for sale through IHMSA. While these cases are long gone, except for my supply laid in during the 1980's, Remington occasionally produces a batch of unprimed brass every few years.

A "problem" arose when Ruger's revolvers were found to have the top straps eroded by flame cutting above the cylinder/barrel gap. Gates criticized Bill Ruger for making the cylinder 0.125" too short against his recommendation, as the Dan Wesson revolver with the longer cylinder wasn't as effected. Still the gun writing press went nuts, blowing the problem out of proportion, and Ruger eventually canceled production. My copy of the Ruger showed that the erosion was minimal and halted at a point where it was cosmetic and no way weakened the frame.

The .357 Remington Maximum, is beyond a doubt one of the most accurate cartridges in a revolver I have worked with. Using Sierra's 180 grain FPJ Match bullet and Winchester 680 powder (substituting ACC 1680 today) the Ruger would shoot .75" 10 shot groups at 50 yards from a rest. I won several early IHMSA revolver class competitions with the combination, nearly shooting a perfect score of 40x40, except missing one turkey at 150 meters when my leg cramped. The 200 meter 50 pound ram targets all fell with a resounding "clang".

Would the .35 Remington be a better choice? Yes, while ammo is currently available for both: .35 Remington: {https://www.midwayusa.com/35-remington/br?cid=7538) along with brass (http://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/...ategoryId/811?). .357 Remington Maximum (http://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/...ategoryId/513?) and loaded ammo (http://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/...categoryId/32?), the .35 Remington will be more flexible with its greater powder capacity and ability to shoot heavier bullets at higher velocity. I owned a Remington Model 141 pump action rifle in .35 Remington (it had a unique spiral magazine tube that allowed use of pointed bullets) and found it a good a deer and pig cartridge. Then there is my solution to such problems of choice, I buy both (if my wife shrugs her shoulders and doesn't ask, "why do you need that"?)

[Junkie]

rimless .357 would headspace off the mouth, not the rim, presumably. You'd lose the ability to run .357max and .357mag (or even .38sp) in the same barrel/bore, iirc.

Hmm, good point. Could you not set it up so max rimless headspaces on the mouth and mag/38 headspace on the rim? of course, you'd need a significantly different extractor for rimmed vs rimless anyway...

[morthrane]

As a wild idea, I've heard of people taking 5.56 cases, trimming them at the neck, fireforming them to almost straight walled, and loading them with either .355 or .357 bullets depending on the barrel they're using, calling it 355/357 Rimless Max.

Obviously wildcatting is more work than buying brass, but 5.56 brass is essentially free. You'd also need to make some changes to the bolt (or whatever it's called on a TC)/extractor too.

rimless .357 would headspace off the mouth, not the rim, presumably. You'd lose the ability to run .357max and .357mag (or even .38sp) in the same barrel/bore, iirc.

[Flouncer]

My experience with inside neck lube, graphite, flare etc is different. Never bothered with it. In any cases, straight wall or bottle. I simply use a Lee case mouth trimmer and some care with clean cases. Lee Carbide dies. My Lone Eagle with a 14-inch barrel has shot touching holes at 100 yards with H110 and AA1680 with Sierra 180g flat base hunting bullets @ 1880 fps. Right out of the Speer manual, perfect right out of the book.

[rromeo]

It's more involved than just a neck up, but not terrible. http://www.marlinowners.com/forum/re...win-cases.html

[dfletcher]

Well , since I can make 35 Remington cases out of 30/06 or .308 cases they are cheaper ( .25 a case about cheaper if found once fired ) but can't get 357 max brass in my area , in my case the 35 rem is cheaper .

Interesting to know on the 35 Remington from 308 - is it a simple neck size up, then fire form? I've never had a problem finding the 35 Remington but using 308 is a good option.

[Capt.Dunsel]

You have that backwards. 35 Rem is about $0.80/ case and only Hornady sells it now. 357 Max is $0.25-35 from Jamison or Starline

Well , since I can make 35 Remington cases out of 30/06 or .308 cases they are cheaper ( .25 a case about cheaper if found once fired ) but can't get 357 max brass in my area , in my case the 35 rem is cheaper .

[Jimmy's]

I traded my 357 Max for a 375 Win. Good trade!

[rromeo]

35 Remington is easy and cheap to find brass , 357 Max not so much.
Got both , they each have the pros and cons . ( have both in both)

18 inch barrel in both are great and get the most out of both , when loaded to their liking. 14" in handgun in both are equal , at least in mine .

I found 180 gr to be best in both . Again in mine .

They both can shoot 220 gr bullets , 35 Rem can take up to 250 gr.

Why not get both eventually ?

You have that backwards. 35 Rem is about $0.80/ case and only Hornady sells it now. 357 Max is $0.25-35 from Jamison or Starline

[dfletcher]

I have both the contender Max handgun barrel 12" and the Encore Max rifle barrel in 28". Both are accurate and the recoil is manageable; harder than a 357 Mag but much less than a 44 mag.

Flies straight out to 100+ and hits hard. The reloading is easy with 4227. I choose to run the contender about 1600fps and the encore about 1900fps.

An added bonus is that you can shoot any 38 special or 357 magnum in the guns as well ! The TC is great fun.

You should see the Dan Wesson Forum and the Ruger Forum for excellent Maximum advice and counseling.

I assume the Contender and Encore can be loaded, with respect to this cartridge, to the same level, correct? I've looked through the data and see no difference in load levels.

[dfletcher]

As a wild idea, I've heard of people taking 5.56 cases, trimming them at the neck, fireforming them to almost straight walled, and loading them with either .355 or .357 bullets depending on the barrel they're using, calling it 355/357 Rimless Max.

Obviously wildcatting is more work than buying brass, but 5.56 brass is essentially free. You'd also need to make some changes to the bolt (or whatever it's called on a TC)/extractor too.

I use 300 AAC brass to make "works good enough" 351 WSL brass for my Winchester 1907. Actually, 357 Max brass is the most often used 351 WSL substitute case.

Anyway, I ordered a 17.5", medium contour (.700) barrel in 357 Max from MGM for my Contender frame. MGM had a fair number of ready made, heavy contour Encore barrels in 21" to 24", but I'd like this to be light & handy. Unlike Encore I don't have alot of Contender barrels and the frame I have has an outstanding trigger. I figure the lighter barrel goes with the smaller frame, I intend to use mostly 110 & 125 grain bullets and the occasional lead.

[Junkie]

As a wild idea, I've heard of people taking 5.56 cases, trimming them at the neck, fireforming them to almost straight walled, and loading them with either .355 or .357 bullets depending on the barrel they're using, calling it 355/357 Rimless Max.

Obviously wildcatting is more work than buying brass, but 5.56 brass is essentially free. You'd also need to make some changes to the bolt (or whatever it's called on a TC)/extractor too.

[dfletcher]

I visited HandloadData.com, feel free to correct me where I'm wrong -

The 357 Maximum out of a rifle length barrel can do 110 and 125 grain jacketed up to about 2,300 and hardcast lead, about 158 or so, around 1,600 fps. I see LaserCast listed, which I like. Is there a particular weight that works best in jacketed and lead?

I'd buy an expander & a seater die for the Maximum case specifically, carbide set for 38/357 will work fine, right?