One in the pipe or not?

[magsnubby]

I always thought carrying with an empty chamber was like carrying an empty fire extinguisher or a flat spare tire. it won't help much when you're sitting beside the road with a flat or watching you car burn.

[Shenaniguns]

A good post that sums up some info for this topic:

http://mp-pistol.com/boards/index.php?showtopic=27350&st=60&p=280593&#entry280593

I love debates over carrying guns with a round in the chamber.

It's funny because people will argue about how much safer it is to carry a gun with a round not in the chamber. I'm convinced these people are really anti-gun people. I've carried for about 9 years including the time I was in the military carrying an M9 before I turned 21. Ironically, I've never had a gun go bang without pulling the trigger. It seems that while people seem to "get" the trigger concept, and that a gun will not fire unless the trigger is pressed, they are constantly afraid that some random thing is going to happen and their trigger will get pressed in firing their weapon.

Ok, I get it. You're afraid that you are going to grab your gun and it's going to go off on accident. How about when you draw it out to protect your life or someone else's... Everyone who argues this point is obviously pretty afraid of it happening, so I'm actually worried that one day when these people actually need their weapon, they are going to pull it out and shoot someone who is innocent in the process. (because of all the years imaging that the pistol is going to go off unintentionally, NOT accidentally.) Focus more on not putting your finger on the trigger until you are ready to shoot.

Look, the chances of you pulling your weapon out to defend yourself as a normal ccw citizen is low. Chances are you may use it once, maybe twice in your entire life. With that in mind, people really think that when that time comes, everything is going to go as planned. If everything is going as planned, you shouldn't be pulling you *%&$ing gun in the first place! You are taking a 1 in a million probability, and now when that comes, you are going to draw your gun (try that under stress first while being shot at, not in your underwear in your bedroom mirror), now you have to rack your slide and hope that everything goes as planned there (the M&P is nice, try it with a gun that's not designed for hollowpoints), and now, the finale, you have to aim your weapon, use trigger control while not wasting bullets, and shoot to stop someone who is actively shooting or ready to shoot someone. There is going to be bullets flying, maybe glass breaking, probably people screaming, and maybe a little kid running in front of you who just watched his mom take a round in the belly... Good thing you have your plan, which is completely immune to anything randomly happening.

With all that stuff in mind, wouldn't you want to eliminate as many levels of error as possible? Not to mention, carrying an extra round!

Don't even get me started on carrying weapons with 5 rounds. Try shooting someone who is about 20 feet away from you and shooting at you. Tell me how far those 5 rounds go.

Carrying non-hot bottom line:
You are assuming you are going to have your other hand available
You are assuming that if your weak hand is NOT available, your clothing is supposed to function as another extremity
You are assuming that you aren't going to need an extra bullet
You are assuming that you want the bad guy to know you are behind him
You are assuming that you want to tell the bad guy not only that you are behind him, but on which side, AND THAT YOU HAVE A GUN
You are assuming that if you rack the weapon it's going to full battery, and the slide doesn't hang up 1/10th of an inch from full battery

You all know what is commonly said about people who assume. Carry hot. Keep your finger off the trigger and your gun away from people who aren't you.


This post has been edited by Agent: Yesterday, 05:06 PM

[ZombieTactics]

Actually IDF no longer trains this way, they've been training to carry a round in the chamber for some time now. The condition 3 method is from their earliest years (before they standardized their sidearms) when an agent could be issued any number of different handguns. Since the 1980's, IDF goes with a round in the chamber (no external safety). ...

Thank you for the update. I'll need to research this and update myself accordingly.

[stphnman20]

Possibly you have this reversed?

LoL.. I was about to say the something.

Condition 1 = Round in the chamber
Condition 3 = Loaded magazine inserted with no rounds in the chamber.

[solventnine]

I should have added...I personally carry around the house because I'm working on getting my CCW and want to make sure I'm as comfortable as can be wearing it; your first line of defense has to be you being aware "in the wild" and whatever level of protection you feel safe with at home. I can see where I could have come off as a mall ninja...

I don't believe that because you "live in a good area," as I do, you're safe (had watercraft stolen from in front of my house during morning school hours...one neighbor has an in-home kindergarten, there's a middle school 2000-3000 feet from my home—I'm outside the posted school zone fwiw, a couple of my other neighbors are retired and always home). Granted, most home invaders don't want to deal with people, but it does happen. I personally don't believe you should be afraid to carry in your own home, you do have a right to do so as long as you can legally own a gun, and if you're not going to be safe carrying in your home then you probably shouldn't be carrying outside your home. Do you have the right to? According to the Second Amendment, yes; according to California law, it depends.

Before anyone starts with "you're saying there should be gun control"...I'll be the first to say the Second Amendment protects our right to carry (although that's not the state of California right now and CGF is working toward a more favorable outcome)...but some rights carry a certain level of responsibility...not just should carry, but actually do. We often discuss the need to be responsible gun owners...whether you're a card-carrying CCW'er or preparing to become one, hunting, or even at the shooting range...it's your responsibility to be aware of where your gun is at all times.

[Moto4Fun]

Condition 1 = bullet shooting device
Condition 3 = bullet storage device