Wheel Gun

[pyromensch]

Do all you guys who suggest a .357 because it can shoot 38 specials realize that a 44 mag can shoot 44 specials?

Mid range 44 mags are more powerful than hot .357 rounds without the blast and noise

.

The .357 and the 38 special are GREAT cartridges.. far better than 99% of the rounds chambered for semi autos but.. they are not as good as a 44 mag.

The 41 and 45 colt may be as good or even a tad better but.. they have their own problems. the 44 mag is probly the best all around handgun round there is at the moment and has been for quite a while.

It is a round that almost requires that you reload and that you practice tho. When I shoot 38 specials I shoot em out of a model 10.. not some .357 gun.

but it is for protection from animals, and blast and noise are desirable

[pyromensch]

for the record, i use a ruger vaquero, 45 colt, with 300gr "buffalo bores", or handloads when i go out to the wilderness............(oakland)

[pyromensch]

Got too excited on the bear spray ... I would recommand a 4" S&W model 686 or 66, a Ruger GP100 4" and that would be about all I'd recommand for a first wheelgun. The 357 magnum is powerful for anybody to shoot, and the 38 special is very cheap to practice with. If you get into reloading in the future the components for the 357/38 is very cheap as well.

what ae you kidding? if he has to shoot it, it will already be seasoned, and ready for the "cue

[windrunner50]

Take a look at the Smith & Wesson Model 29 Blue or 629 Stainless Mountain Gun. You can get them with or without the lock depending on what series MG you find. The MG has a tapered 4" barrel, and they shoot great. They pack nice, and are a little lighter than the standard 4" S&W 44 mag. I would stay away from the 329 as it is too light, and very uncomfortable to shoot. Remember practice with whatever you aquire, and carry the appropriate ammunition.

[lazs]

bigdogatplay.. I can't argue that a 44 mag requires you to reload unless you are rich.

I would put it to you that so does a .357 these days.

As for the 44 special being anemic and without much selection.. the 38 spl is no world beater.. I can find 44 special factory fodder that is more potent than even plus p 38's

But that it not the point.. if you are going to have +p stuff.. why not just go to the real magnum?

Army.. the 44 mag is too heavy for you to hike with? So you will use an inferior gun because of a few ounces? I guess all those guides that pack 44 mags all day in bear and hog hunting areas must be supermen to carry that half a pound extra all day? hell.. you could leave a few granola bars behind to make it up. If you really are so infirm then I might suggest some of the alloy 44 mag guns.

pyromenche.. if noise and blast are what you use to defend yourself why not just get an airhorn?

The only real argument for getting a .357 instead of a 44 mag is one that we are dancing around here...

It is far easier to shoot a .357 well for newbies. The 44 mag is capable of at least as good and better at range, accuracy BUT it takes dedication. Few will shoot it well right from the start.

And.. truth is.. some will simply never be able to handle the recoil well. It will never be an accurate round for them. Desert eagle guys are a good example.. almost every one that I have met bought the gun because it "looks cool" and was in a few movies they liked. I have yet to see one of em shoot the thing well. I have not seen one that know how to or cares to learn to reload. They all shoot whatever factory ammo they find and know nothing about the ballistics of the round.

Obviously..that is generalization. but it is what I have run into. 44 mag revolvers are popular enough now that we don't see that as much. I would say that most if not all of the guys who shoot 44 mag these days at least dabbles in reloading.

Myself? I cast my own slugs from free wheel weights.. have for many years. A box of 44 mags runs me about $4 these days.

I don't really bother with .357 much these days and even at my advanced age.. I can carry an extra half a pound around "hiking all day".

If I want to just throw something in my pocket for social work I have a 340PD in .357 with compact grips. It would probly make me deaf if I had to shoot it without hearing protection and I doubt most would want to shoot more than 5 rounds out of it without going home and soaking their hand. I would not want to shoot a bear with it or choose it as a gun to hunt hogs with.

I have killed hogs with a 44 mag.. I would not really want much less of a gun. I have not killed a bear.. the little black bears we have are not really dangerous and if you find a griz or a coastal bear you better not be stuck with a .357.. big cats can be taken with a 22. but in a desperate situation I would rather put a 300 grain 44 slug into em to stop em from doing bad things before they knew they were dead.

[gaucho750]

Call me crazy, but if you just need an animal self defense weapon; I would think that Bear Pepper Spray be lighter and much cheaper?

http://www.fws.gov/mountain-prairie/...ar%20spray.pdf

My grandpa was a Smokejumper up in Idaho and Montana for years and he says that all bear spray does is make the bear really, really mad!
.357 should work ok for your needs and I second the Ruger GP100 option in 4 inch. It is a tough gun that is easy to pull apart...but a little heavy.

[GrinderCB]

Will a .357 be good enough for a bear? Or will it be for small to medium game like large cats and the like?

IMO this goes back to the original premise, that the gun would be for protection from 4-legged intruders. Remember that when hunting, the bear is your focus. The .44 magnum is a hunting round and if I was actively seeking a bear I'd carry that. When camping, fishing, hiking, etc., your focus is on those things. With that in mind, I would opt for a solid .357 magnum revolver in 4- or 6-inch. The idea is that you're not out looking for a bear, you just want to be able to draw and shoot quickly if one comes around.

[Army]

Army.. the 44 mag is too heavy for you to hike with? So you will use an inferior gun because of a few ounces? I guess all those guides that pack 44 mags all day in bear and hog hunting areas must be supermen to carry that half a pound extra all day? hell.. you could leave a few granola bars behind to make it up. If you really are so infirm then I might suggest some of the alloy 44 mag guns.

Well, gee..I only daily carried a 9lb rifle, along with 45lbs of body armor, 8lbs of water, 12lbs of ammo, and 10lbs of personal gear in 120 plus degree weather. I guess I can't be a hunting guide.

The OP is in LA, logic says he will be HIKING AND CAMPING in the Angeles forest, or maybe the Sierras. He's NOT out hunting Alaska brownies, nor looking out for any Grizzlies while Salmon fishing, and he never mentioned shooting pigs. The odds of him bumping into any size bear that wants to eat him is slim at best. Much better odds of bumping into a two legged varmint that can better be dealt with in a smaller, much more easily controlled power factor in a lighter package that is easier to carry all day.

I don't do macho for macho's sake. A .44 will not well serve the OP in what he wants to do.

[Günter]

I agree with Army,
99.95+% of the time you will be carrying your sidearm, not shooting it. Every ounce of weight in your gear does eventually add up to make a difference when carried for a long period of time while moving. The .357 is no pea shooter either, it is considered to be the best man stopping cartridge out there. A .44 magnum will probably be more effective in bringing down a large bear, but I believe the .357 can do the job if called for.
For offensive (hunting): .44 magnum
for defensive (carry): .357 magnum

[PutTogether]

I think the point is made, and is a good point indeed, that a .44 mag is a wonderful gun for a true afficianodo, someone that will make the investment in money and time to get into reloading it, or someone who needs absolute brute power out of a handgun.

Barring any of the three - a .357 magnum in 4" seems the optimum choice. You can find SOME ammo that will work in your gun almost anywhere you go. Even my local walmart that never has anything in stock always has .38 special.

BUT speaking of .38 special....... who honestly loads up .38 in their .357 and goes plinking? I can't stand it. If I bring one of my .357s shooting I want to shoot .357s. Maybe that is just me.

Anyway - a .357 can do almost anything your average person would ever need to use a gun can think of.

A .44 can do without a doubt do some of those things better, but requires more experience, patience, money, practice, etc etc etc

[neomedic]

IMO this goes back to the original premise, that the gun would be for protection from 4-legged intruders. Remember that when hunting, the bear is your focus. The .44 magnum is a hunting round and if I was actively seeking a bear I'd carry that. When camping, fishing, hiking, etc., your focus is on those things. With that in mind, I would opt for a solid .357 magnum revolver in 4- or 6-inch. The idea is that you're not out looking for a bear, you just want to be able to draw and shoot quickly if one comes around.

Yes..this will be a defensive move. I'm not looking for and hope not to run into bears...but you never know when your packing beef jerky for the trip. In response to ARMY...yes most likely Angeles Forrest will be the destination.

Most people say that if you get a .44 you better be reloading. Is that just a cost issue or are the .44 magnum rounds hard to find? I don't really plan on reloading. Still be nice to own a .44

But, I'm guess I'm kind of forced to lean towards a .357 since its easier to shoot and maybe carry (its the wiser choice...but still I would like a to have a .44). I like the idea of having a S&W since their triggers are nicer. I would like a 4" barrel. But REALLY DON'T want S&W with an internal lock. Can I still get a new S&W without an internal lock? Or will I have to look for an old one? If I can't get a new one....I might have to get a Ruger. Looking for a new revolver.

Thanks for all the input.

[PutTogether]

Yes..this will be a defensive move. I'm not looking for and hope not to run into bears...but you never know when your packing beef jerky for the trip. In response to ARMY...yes most likely Angeles Forrest will be the destination.

Most people say that if you get a .44 you better be reloading. Is that just a cost issue or are the .44 magnum rounds hard to find? I don't really plan on reloading. Still be nice to own a .44

But, I'm guess I'm kind of forced to lean towards a .357 since its easier to shoot and maybe carry (its the wiser choice...but still I would like a to have a .44). I like the idea of having a S&W since their triggers are nicer. I would like a 4" barrel. But REALLY DON'T want S&W with an internal lock. Can I still get a new S&W without an internal lock? Or will I have to look for an old one? If I can't get a new one....I might have to get a Ruger. Looking for a new revolver.

Thanks for all the input.

Generic .44 mag ammo isn't that hard to find, but it is EXPENSIVE. Do some internet searches for ammo prices, you'll see.

I truly believe the internal lock thing is a blown out of proportion internet paranoia. Yeah, there are some posts on forums about people saying their lock broke - but how in god's name can you know if it is true or someone perpetuating a myth? I have half a dozen with lock SW guns, with never issue - ever. If you are convinced your gun shall not have lock i THINK the "classic" series of new SW guns might be lock free but are pretty expensive

[lazs]

once the kalifornia handgun ammo ban kicks in we probly will see prices for all handgun ammo go way up and.. it will all get closer together in price.

reloading will become an even better option than it was in the past. In my opinion.. Anyone who shoots handguns should reload their own ammo. I can't believe all the folks who are asking me for advice on reloading equipment and process these days.

[neomedic]

Ok...someone school me on revolvers from S&W. I'm getting a little confused on all the models that S&W offer. And each model comes with different barrell lengths so that just adds to my confusion. For example, what is difference between the 686 vs. 620? Are they on the same frame? I need some guidance

I think I want a large frame gun (model L). Something that can handle the magnum rounds. Would like to have a 4" barrel, but still open to a sub-nose compact.....don't know how the recoil will handle? Is it much more comfortable to shoot the 4" barrel?

So what models am I looking for? I think the 686 and 620 fits my description above. Not sure of their difference. Any other models besides these two?

Also, if I want a new S&W WITHOUT the lock, is gun broker the only place or will it be impossible to find? Nothing against used guns, but I like a new one =)

Thanks!!!!

Thanks.

[lazs]

puttogether is correct. Army.. seriously.. if you lug all your military gear around then I really don't see how an extra few ounces of 44 mag is a big deal. I carried one around in the brush for hogs for years and never once felt it was better to have a lighter .357 that would be silly.

.357 is a very good all around gun. If you really get into wheel guns tho.. at some point it is just not going to be enough.. you will be looking for a wheelgun that starts with a "4"

Some will never get good with a 44 mag.. or even a .357 mag for that matter. The recoil and blast of either gun will simply be too much for them to get used to.

Realistically if you can't handle mid range 44 mag loads then you will probly not be able to handle .357 loads.

There is nothing wrong with a good 38 special revolver. Or. a good 44 special revolver.

If you can handle the mags tho then you will most likely never put the light special ammo through them.. the "versatility" factor is almost nothing. I never ran 38 specials through my .357's and I never run 44 specials through my 44 mags. No point in it at all.