Fix The Site Or Shut It Down

[Imageview]

For those who enjoy it I say keep coming here but it is simply unusable, when I want to use it. Otherwise it works fine 🙄

There is no reason for these technical problems to exist for years, the entire internet proves that. I mean, I wouldn't put my name behind it but it is not for us to ask to shut it down. I just don't understand it. I ran two servers, built and hosted websites for ten years with e-commerce and tons of traffic and never had these issues. All as a side business while I worked full time as an Auto Tech.

It's not some mystery, someone can fix it but it costs $$

If money could solve this problem that would be a lot simpler. I mean I am sure there is a conceivable number that could do it, but it is well beyond the scope of any site like this.

Forum software has basically languished in development for the last 15 years. There is a market, but it’s very very niche. Reddit/social media/YouTube has largely replaced forums for most potential users aside from very specific user groups. As such the writers of this software aren’t a robust team, but instead a couple of guys holding out until retirement. Competing software companies that provide similar services are in similar situations.

Then we have the history of this site. This site for over 10 years ran on outdated software that became increasingly behind in terms of versioning specifically to maintain the iTrader functionality (well, it was probably less work than upgrading as well but I have no insight into if that played a part in the decision making). When critical issues forced this site to migrate to a current version, compatibility issues completely wrecked the migration. This is almost certainly problems with database incompatibility, although it also could be database size that is causing many of the problems we see. Calguns is a very robust forum in terms of total data.

As someone who used to work on forums for a living, back when that was more of a thing, my advice would be to start spinning up alternative versions of the site with the database pruned heavily and see if would help. That being said load testing in any real sense is probably not something the site owners are prepared to do, so it might not reveal what parts of the database are causing the most issues because the alternate versions wouldn’t get hammered like this site does. The most practical answer is to turn this database into an archive, and restart the site on a new clean database. But then a substantial part of the user base will throw a hissy fit because they can’t see as easily what gun was listed for what price in the marketplace back in 2013. Or read some thread with bad attempts at humor in the off topic section from 2007. Not that they actually do these things, but it’s the principle.

Essentially kes is trapped in several no win positions, and he’s going to get crap from a bunch of the users no matter what. One has to wonder if it’s worth his time. I wouldn’t want to deal with it, and I’m literally someone who gets paid to deal with these things. I appreciate this site, I’m someone who didn’t grow up with firearms or hunting and had to come into it later in life. As such there’s an enormous amount of knowledge deficit I’ve had to overcome. I’d like to see this site function again in a reasonable manner, but traffic is still shedding at an alarming rate. While the site may be more available than it was 6 months ago, less people are visiting it. Less people are visiting it than last month, and that was less than the month before. There are plenty of tools available online to track this, but you don’t even need them. Instead just look at the last posted date in the forums. Parts of this site that used to be busy are going dead. And without people conversing, a forum stops being used relatively quickly.

[gorgothmog]

If money could solve this problem that would be a lot simpler. I mean I am sure there is a conceivable number that could do it, but it is well beyond the scope of any site like this.

Forum software has basically languished in development for the last 15 years. There is a market, but it’s very very niche. Reddit/social media/YouTube has largely replaced forums for most potential users aside from very specific user groups. As such the writers of this software aren’t a robust team, but instead a couple of guys holding out until retirement. Competing software companies that provide similar services are in similar situations.

Then we have the history of this site. This site for over 10 years ran on outdated software that became increasingly behind in terms of versioning specifically to maintain the iTrader functionality (well, it was probably less work than upgrading as well but I have no insight into if that played a part in the decision making). When critical issues forced this site to migrate to a current version, compatibility issues completely wrecked the migration. This is almost certainly problems with database incompatibility, although it also could be database size that is causing many of the problems we see. Calguns is a very robust forum in terms of total data.

As someone who used to work on forums for a living, back when that was more of a thing, my advice would be to start spinning up alternative versions of the site with the database pruned heavily and see if would help. That being said load testing in any real sense is probably not something the site owners are prepared to do, so it might not reveal what parts of the database are causing the most issues because the alternate versions wouldn’t get hammered like this site does. The most practical answer is to turn this database into an archive, and restart the site on a new clean database. But then a substantial part of the user base will throw a hissy fit because they can’t see as easily what gun was listed for what price in the marketplace back in 2013. Or read some thread with bad attempts at humor in the off topic section from 2007. Not that they actually do these things, but it’s the principle.

Essentially kes is trapped in several no win positions, and he’s going to get crap from a bunch of the users no matter what. One has to wonder if it’s worth his time. I wouldn’t want to deal with it, and I’m literally someone who gets paid to deal with these things. I appreciate this site, I’m someone who didn’t grow up with firearms or hunting and had to come into it later in life. As such there’s an enormous amount of knowledge deficit I’ve had to overcome. I’d like to see this site function again in a reasonable manner, but traffic is still shedding at an alarming rate. While the site may be more available than it was 6 months ago, less people are visiting it. Less people are visiting it than last month, and that was less than the month before. There are plenty of tools available online to track this, but you don’t even need them. Instead just look at the last posted date in the forums. Parts of this site that used to be busy are going dead. And without people conversing, a forum stops being used relatively quickly.

CalGuns should sell the domain to CAguns with a manual or automatic redirect on the page. Maybe CAguns and CalGuns can cooperate so that the archived database is stored on the CAguns server, and linked there for a year. After that first year members can pay $1 a month for access to it, or maybe monetize it in some way just to recuperate costs. At some point we have to move on as a community, and dividing CAguns and CalGuns weakens the 2A community, it doesn't strengthen it.

[davidj]

CalGuns should sell the domain to CAguns with a manual or automatic redirect on the page. Maybe CAguns and CalGuns can cooperate so that the archived database is stored on the CAguns server, and linked there for a year. After that first year members can pay $1 a month for access to it, or maybe monetize it in some way just to recuperate costs. At some point we have to move on as a community, and dividing CAguns and CalGuns weakens the 2A community, it doesn't strengthen it.

No Thank You.
CAguns janitor is a Liar, proven several times from his posts that he made here and on his site. I do not associate with such individuals. I will not even get into his position on 2A issues that he has said.

[TrappedinCalifornia]

CalGuns should sell the domain to CAguns with a manual or automatic redirect on the page. Maybe CAguns and CalGuns can cooperate so that the archived database is stored on the CAguns server, and linked there for a year. After that first year members can pay $1 a month for access to it, or maybe monetize it in some way just to recuperate costs. At some point we have to move on as a community, and dividing CAguns and CalGuns weakens the 2A community, it doesn't strengthen it.

I doubt many who are left here would condone such a merger. The reasons include what the owner of the other site pulled on this site to build that site, not to mention the 'restrictions' which apply to that site. Then there's the fact that Kestryll has declared his intent to keep this site free given that he promised to do so long ago. Thus, you're espousing a merger when many, maybe most, of the remaining, active users on this site don't want any part of the other site (including some who have tried it and didn't like it) and declaring that Kestryll should break a promise he doesn't intend to break to recuperate costs.

Then there's the idea of two sites weakening the 2nd Amendment community rather than strengthening it. Uh... Is that why the owner of the other site intends creating a site for each of the 50 states and is using his present site as the base architecture?

Ultimately, each site has something unique to offer. Were this site functioning correctly, I'm not even certain the other site would have grown as large as it has. Yet, it too has a place and a purpose. However, such is different than this one. That's without even discussing that many of the members there retain an animus toward this site and Kestryll, for a variety of reasons. In addition, they don't care for the format of this site and don't want to have to deal with it while most of those remaining prefer this site and don't care for the other. Thus, combining the two sites is an attempt to combine largely incompatible memberships. (Just as that site combined some of the Calguns membership with some of the Reddit membership, but not the entirety of either.)

I get that the owner of the other site wants not only access to and use of the Calguns brand, but has specifically stated that he would prefer the two sites remain separate so as to keep the 'unique' flavor of each. What he hasn't openly stated is how long he would keep them separate vs. ultimately merging the two once he has gained control and utilized the Calguns branding for whatever purpose(s). Likewise, at this juncture, given what he pulled, I'm dubious many remaining here would trust him or any declarations.

[Warbonnet]

CalGuns should sell the domain to CAguns with a manual or automatic redirect on the page. Maybe CAguns and CalGuns can cooperate so that the archived database is stored on the CAguns server, and linked there for a year. After that first year members can pay $1 a month for access to it, or maybe monetize it in some way just to recuperate costs. At some point we have to move on as a community, and dividing CAguns and CalGuns weakens the 2A community, it doesn't strengthen it.

To hell with that. I'd rather join the democrat party, and wear a dress, than have any connection to that liberal other site with the raccoon problem.

[C.G.]

CalGuns should sell the domain to CAguns with a manual or automatic redirect on the page. Maybe CAguns and CalGuns can cooperate so that the archived database is stored on the CAguns server, and linked there for a year. After that first year members can pay $1 a month for access to it, or maybe monetize it in some way just to recuperate costs. At some point we have to move on as a community, and dividing CAguns and CalGuns weakens the 2A community, it doesn't strengthen it.

Oh look, another shill.🤢

[gorgothmog]

Oh look, another shill.🤢

No, I just wasn't aware of the complicated history, here. It makes more sense now that I have some context. I'd be happy to volunteer technical expertise and support to helping this site. Sounds like CAguns doesn't have the best of intentions, and wants to sweep the country, lol.

[TrappedinCalifornia]

No, I just wasn't aware of the complicated history, here. It makes more sense now that I have some context. I'd be happy to volunteer technical expertise and support to helping this site. Sounds like CAguns doesn't have the best of intentions, and wants to sweep the country, lol.

It's not 'hidden' or, at least, he's been fairly transparent about it. From a March thread on the other site (bearing in mind that many have real issues with links to there)...

Hey everyone!

In an effort to modernize 2A platforms beyond just California, we’re expanding — and bringing the mission to Texas. Just like many folks who’ve moved out of CA for more freedom and opportunity, we’re launching TexanArmory.com to bring a clean, upgraded experience to the Texas 2A community.

Over the years, I’ve seen a big issue with a lot of firearms platforms: they didn’t keep up. Only the biggest ones put in the effort to upgrade systems, user experience, and infrastructure. Meanwhile, local markets and communities are often fragmented or outdated.

That’s where TexanArmory comes in. It’s a new platform inspired by the lessons we’ve learned from CAguns.net and Calguns-style communities built with help and input from users like you.

This is a standardized, automated, user-first resource built for Texas. If you or anyone you know is into firearms and lives in Texas, send them our way. We’re just getting started but the vision is big.

TexanArmory.com

Some of you might've seen the post on Reddit, so here's a little more on the matter.

From another March thread in relation to what is perceived as 'the marketplace'...

I have some of that in place now, I’m thinking if you guys are satisfied it seems like I might have a good framework for other states and one generally. I’m thinking of maybe expanding

I’ll try to sync the feedback system too so if you’re on a network they all work together.

The more you guys help me build the better it gets. I’m actually amazed how far the platform has come and when I look at other places I think this place is ahead of most except the largest sites.

CAguns would stay CAguns.

This is about another site using the same framework outside of CA, more general purpose. If you use GB that’s cool but they don’t do secondary accessories take a look at the site below as an example. I’m just thinking the work I did can be useful for other places. But first I still have to build up CAguns first with better categories

Tacswap.com

In short, he's declared, from the very beginning, that he's interested in creating platforms, but not so interested in actually administering them. He's also declared that he's looking for an ROI (Return on Investment). There have been allusions to looking for 'buyers' to take over while he continues 'building sites.'

[chrisw]

What an ***. That libtard trash bandit says "y'all and howdy" on his texas site

Good cover bud..... hahaha

[ikeo]

Some of you guys are really reaching... If you guys put as much time into developing a site as you did talking about me and the work I've done, you might have fixed this site already.

TrappedinCali Hopefully you can tell the difference between "can" and "might" vs definitive statements. If you don't know what market testing is and also noticed that an individual running a site and the obvious problems you can have vs a larger entity then maybe you don't understand the current issue with Calguns and haven't thought about how to actually fix the issue. There's people who understand what I'm building for the benefit of the larger community, one that I hope has value. You contribute to the board in your way. I contribute in my way. I've built an entire framework to be manageable, extensible, and upgradeable. I used my professional expertise to build a highly performant and feature rich site as a side project. One I've invested thousands of hours now in development alone not including my actual training and instruction time that's going on 5 years. While you guys keep talking, I picked up a CRO certification and sponsoring 3 events across California and hosting classes for LEO/MIL/Civilians.

You look at it as I'm looking for a payout, when I've been negative the entirety of the time turning over every penny back into growing the sport and developing the site and looking for ways for it to be self sustaining. Calguns is not the only site with issues. TexasGunTrader.com has a similar story to here with performance issues. They were hacked 6 months ago and all user information sold. You guys talk so much but can't or won't acknowledge or discuss the real lack of technical expertise in 2A. I'm at least making an effort to fill that void.

I know most of you could care less, but to the people that are curious. I lead by data, way more objective than peoples feelings. The site performance hasn't slowed down at all despite traffic growth, is significantly more secure based on modern security protocols, and less prone to attacks. I'm content with the quality of product I've built and the level of service the site provides. To me, it's what the 2A community deserves. The site is very efficient and can support the Texas market on existing hardware. The goal is to build big enough so that the sites can be supported by a larger 2A entity to ensure continuity.
Screenshot 2025-04-24 at 2.11.29 PM.png

[TrappedinCalifornia]

Some of you guys are really reaching... If you guys put as much time into developing a site as you did talking about me and the work I've done, you might have fixed this site already.

TrappedinCali Hopefully you can tell the difference between "can" and "might" vs definitive statements. If you don't know what market testing is and also noticed that an individual running a site and the obvious problems you can have vs a larger entity then maybe you don't understand the current issue with Calguns and haven't thought about how to actually fix the issue. There's people who understand what I'm building for the benefit of the larger community, one that I hope has value. You contribute to the board in your way. I contribute in my way. I've built an entire framework to be manageable, extensible, and upgradeable. I used my professional expertise to build a highly performant and feature rich site as a side project. One I've invested thousands of hours now in development alone not including my actual training and instruction time that's going on 5 years. While you guys keep talking, I picked up a CRO certification and sponsoring 3 events across California and hosting classes for LEO/MIL/Civilians.

You look at it as I'm looking for a payout, when I've been negative the entirety of the time turning over every penny back into growing the sport and developing the site and looking for ways for it to be self sustaining. Calguns is not the only site with issues. TexasGunTrader.com has a similar story to here with performance issues. They were hacked 6 months ago and all user information sold. You guys talk so much but can't or won't acknowledge or discuss the real lack of technical expertise in 2A. I'm at least making an effort to fill that void.

I know most of you could care less, but to the people that are curious. I lead by data, way more objective than peoples feelings. The site performance hasn't slowed down at all despite traffic growth, is significantly more secure based on modern security protocols, and less prone to attacks. I'm content with the quality of product I've built and the level of service the site provides. To me, it's what the 2A community deserves. The site is very efficient and can support the Texas market on existing hardware. The goal is to build big enough so that the sites can be supported by a larger 2A entity to ensure continuity.

I'm not sure how much obfuscation you intend, but you can't even spell my screen name correctly. Sheesh. 🙄

I picked just three examples from your posts. Do I really need to go back and pull more? Nope.

Do I really need to go back and illustrate how many different 'understandings' you've presented as to what the problem is with Calguns and what needs to happen to fix it? Nope.

Do I really need to go back and show how much you claim to want to 'benefit the community' due to feeling your builds are better, newer, more manageable, etc.? Nope.

Do I really need to go back and repost where you, yourself, claimed to be looking for an ROI in the long term? Nope.

Do I really need to go back and show where you claim there's not enough income for you in such a site? Nope.

Lack of technical expertise in the 2nd Amendment? Do I really need to go back and show where members here were 'educating' you with regard to how you were (mis)presenting it? Nope.

Do I really need to go back and show how you intend to provide that core site to support the 2nd Amendment community, thus establishing what you consider 'continuity?' Nope.

Why all the "nope" responses? You've already posted them, multiple times, and to a point where many here are sick and tired of it. As I posted, there's nothing that's been all that 'hidden' with regard to your agenda or your marketing style. Insofar as us talking about you... gimme a break. How much discourse does your site have about this one, including your continuing expressions of wanting access behind the curtain, the right to use the name, etc.? Our posts pale by comparison. (That's without even getting into the 'Kestryll bashing' which has gone on, despite your claims not to 'support' such content.)

Just like your claims of sponsoring three events, hosting classes, et al. Go back to the 'old days' and you'll see where this site also sponsored 'events,' courses were posted, etc. It's all part of building a brand and you've only just started, not achieved something 'greater than.'

When it comes to your chart, I'm not sure there's much grandeur in comparing a marginally functioning site (at the moment) to sites which are experiencing the 'freshness' of being new and growing. As I've said, numerous times, I have no problem with another site. I do, however, have a preference for this one to yours given the shenanigans you keep going through in an effort to 'manage' what you consider to be 'appropriate.' Others are free to make their choice(s) and many already have. Again, there's been little 'hidden' about what's going on with the site, with your site, with your guerrilla marketing, etc.

As I've told you in the past, you do you on your site. You don't like what's being posted on this site, even if it is your own words? Simple solution. Don't come back. Even if you do, don't keep trying to 'spin' what you do as the 'biggest and best.' You've built a site which, in many respects, is a derivative of this one and you can't 'spin' your way out of that. You took advantage of a 'business opportunity' and have run with it. Fine. I don't have a problem with that. Where I do have an issue, one shared by many here, is you continually trying to 'sell us' on what you're doing, your motives, et al. As they say, that... uh... 'ship' don't float so well in these waters.

Will your site, eventually, outdistance this one in terms of the contribution to the community? Keep working on it. In another decade or so, you might get there. But, claiming what you're currently doing as being 'comparable' or 'better than' what this site has provided over the last two decades is... to be generous... laughable. As I've also said, if our faith in this site and/or in Kestryll is misplaced, well, so be it. It's not about 'going down with the ship' or 'rearranging the deck chairs while the ship takes on water.' It's about a preference for this place or other sites to what you're offering. If you do sell off what you've built and someone with actual 2nd Amendment knowledge (something which has been shown you are still learning about) and fervor takes over, such preference might change; but, there are other aspects, such as the 'sensitivity quotient' of those you've pulled from Reddit, which will also factor in.

Reaching? I don't think we're reaching at all. We have what we prefer, even if it's not working up to snuff. (A number have actually tried your offering and returned here.) You see, that's the difference between a 'plan' and a 'have.' The 'plan' lacks definitiveness in that, like you, 'testing' is ongoing to build something which doesn't already exist. A 'have' has a certain definitiveness because it's already gone through the stage you're attempting to grow through. The real question is what you will grow into or what you will allow it to grow into.

[Enzo rules]

No Thank You.
CAguns janitor is a Liar, proven several times from his posts that he made here and on his site. I do not associate with such individuals. I will not even get into his position on 2A issues that he has said.

That clown is a big time liar. Look at the number of posts he has on this site. 22. That’s because he was able to purge hundreds of his posts. That’s dishonest and cowardly. And he boldly posted on his site he got into firearms when he “drank the Kool-aid” that Obama was coming after our guns. That comment was on his site unless he cowardly deleted it. Anyone who believes Obama was not coming after our guns is a complete fool, delusional, a lair or all the above.

[davidj]

Some of you guys are really reaching... If you guys put as much time into developing a site as you did talking about me and the work I've done, you might have fixed this site already.

TrappedinCali Hopefully you can tell the difference between "can" and "might" vs definitive statements. If you don't know what market testing is and also noticed that an individual running a site and the obvious problems you can have vs a larger entity then maybe you don't understand the current issue with Calguns and haven't thought about how to actually fix the issue. There's people who understand what I'm building for the benefit of the larger community, one that I hope has value. You contribute to the board in your way. I contribute in my way. I've built an entire framework to be manageable, extensible, and upgradeable. I used my professional expertise to build a highly performant and feature rich site as a side project. One I've invested thousands of hours now in development alone not including my actual training and instruction time that's going on 5 years. While you guys keep talking, I picked up a CRO certification and sponsoring 3 events across California and hosting classes for LEO/MIL/Civilians.

You look at it as I'm looking for a payout, when I've been negative the entirety of the time turning over every penny back into growing the sport and developing the site and looking for ways for it to be self sustaining. Calguns is not the only site with issues. TexasGunTrader.com has a similar story to here with performance issues. They were hacked 6 months ago and all user information sold. You guys talk so much but can't or won't acknowledge or discuss the real lack of technical expertise in 2A. I'm at least making an effort to fill that void.

I know most of you could care less, but to the people that are curious. I lead by data, way more objective than peoples feelings. The site performance hasn't slowed down at all despite traffic growth, is significantly more secure based on modern security protocols, and less prone to attacks. I'm content with the quality of product I've built and the level of service the site provides. To me, it's what the 2A community deserves. The site is very efficient and can support the Texas market on existing hardware. The goal is to build big enough so that the sites can be supported by a larger 2A entity to ensure continuity.
Screenshot 2025-04-24 at 2.11.29 PM.png

You contribute nothing to this site. Yet you are on this site everyday, seems to me you like this site better than your own. It is really unfortunate that someone like you has a gun website, it would have been best for the 2A movement to actually have a honest individual (one who does not lie like you do) who understands that guns are not just a toy to play with.

As I said it the past, if I was Kes I would have banned you from this site long ago. You are a competitor who tries to steal every vendor and members on this site to "dump CGN and go to your site"

[chrisw]

Some of you guys are really reaching... If you guys put as much time into developing a site as you did talking about me and the work I've done, you might have fixed this site already.

TrappedinCali Hopefully you can tell the difference between "can" and "might" vs definitive statements. If you don't know what market testing is and also noticed that an individual running a site and the obvious problems you can have vs a larger entity then maybe you don't understand the current issue with Calguns and haven't thought about how to actually fix the issue. There's people who understand what I'm building for the benefit of the larger community, one that I hope has value. You contribute to the board in your way. I contribute in my way. I've built an entire framework to be manageable, extensible, and upgradeable. I used my professional expertise to build a highly performant and feature rich site as a side project. One I've invested thousands of hours now in development alone not including my actual training and instruction time that's going on 5 years. While you guys keep talking, I picked up a CRO certification and sponsoring 3 events across California and hosting classes for LEO/MIL/Civilians.

You look at it as I'm looking for a payout, when I've been negative the entirety of the time turning over every penny back into growing the sport and developing the site and looking for ways for it to be self sustaining. Calguns is not the only site with issues. TexasGunTrader.com has a similar story to here with performance issues. They were hacked 6 months ago and all user information sold. You guys talk so much but can't or won't acknowledge or discuss the real lack of technical expertise in 2A. I'm at least making an effort to fill that void.

I know most of you could care less, but to the people that are curious. I lead by data, way more objective than peoples feelings. The site performance hasn't slowed down at all despite traffic growth, is significantly more secure based on modern security protocols, and less prone to attacks. I'm content with the quality of product I've built and the level of service the site provides. To me, it's what the 2A community deserves. The site is very efficient and can support the Texas market on existing hardware. The goal is to build big enough so that the sites can be supported by a larger 2A entity to ensure continuity.
Screenshot 2025-04-24 at 2.11.29 PM.png

Wrong again. COULDN'T care less.
Piss off

[SanDiego619]

LOL, the racoon has been summoned for more spankings!!

Two fingers up your A hole!!!!!!!