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Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated Centerfire rifles, carbines and other gas operated rifles.

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  #1  
Old 11-26-2007, 3:20 PM
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Default Video: M261 true dedicated 22LR AR Rifle with DETACHABLE MAGS !

Well fellow Calgunners:
Just out and released is the first in California:

Dedicated .22LR AR15 rifle based on the M261 design using a "22LR" marked lower receiver from SABRE DEFENCE!
22LR.jpg
Now you can run around with DETACHABLE AR MAGAZINES with a lower marked 22LR legally in the state of California *.

Available in .22LR and .17M2 w/ true .221 1x16 twist and .17 bore diameters. No sloppy .223 1x9 twist bores with this dedicated .22LR M261 upper!

See the video @ Metroshot: DEDICATED RIMFIRE: DETACHABLE MAGAZINE 22LR M261 RIFLE -=


http://www.metroshotfirearms.com/22LR.wmv -

NOTE: File size is a full stream 20MB video in Windows Media format.

CAUTION: Watching a detachable magazine AR rifle in action with a pistol grip may lead you to reconsider the cost of ammunition of 5.56mm vs. .22LR - 5:1. Shoot 5 times with .22LR instead of 5.56mm!

* = 22LR magazines are limited to 10rds. Legality is based on the 58 County DA interpretation of the Penal Code.

NOTE: M261 is a platform similar to the Ciener / Atchison / DPMS / Colt / Air Force rimfire AR platforms...

This M261 Sarco/military M16/AR15 platform will NOT work with Spike's Tactical nor Black Dog Machine magazines. Black Dog has a prototype being worked on which we will also post the results!

FYI: We do stock the Black Dog Magazines for those that have the Ciener/Atchison/Spikes Modified uppers....
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** AR 15 and AR10 off list CA compliant rifles **

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Last edited by SFV_Dealer; 11-30-2007 at 9:16 AM.. Reason: details
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  #2  
Old 11-26-2007, 3:32 PM
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The GSG 5 and this Weapon are the Wave of the Future in Firearms (Like the AK98-T and WASR 22)
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  #3  
Old 11-26-2007, 3:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gator Monroe View Post
The GSG 5 and this Weapon are the Wave of the Future in Firearms (Like the AK98-T and WASR 22)
In plinking at least, I doubt we'll see these on the front lines of any combat footage .
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  #4  
Old 11-26-2007, 4:02 PM
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Damn, that is awesome. Where do I get in line???!
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  #5  
Old 11-26-2007, 4:07 PM
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Having a receiver maked .22 LR could be a good thing. But why not just put the M261 in any AR/OLL? It might say 5.56mm but clearly it wouldn't be.
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  #6  
Old 11-26-2007, 4:12 PM
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How much are those gonna run?
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  #7  
Old 11-26-2007, 4:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dustoff31 View Post
Having a receiver maked .22 LR could be a good thing. But why not just put the M261 in any AR/OLL? It might say 5.56mm but clearly it wouldn't be.
You are free and legal to do that. Some people feel more comfortable with the lower being marked rimfire or .22LR.
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  #8  
Old 11-26-2007, 4:42 PM
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I had some pre ban high cap mags I retrofitted into a black dog body . I got BlackDog to just send me 3 bodies and fabbed it up.
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  #9  
Old 11-26-2007, 5:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dustoff31 View Post
Having a receiver maked .22 LR could be a good thing. But why not just put the M261 in any AR/OLL? It might say 5.56mm but clearly it wouldn't be.
Because the way DOJ thinks (I use that term very loosely), if you have a 5.56 upper along with a 5.56 MARKED lower that has a .22LR upper, you COULD go up against a "constructive possession" charge. It's like having a K-Grip in a shoebox with a SP89 (not installed on the SP89)...the BATFE considers that "constructive possession" of a AOW and the CA DOJ is, IMO, more likely to really lay that kind of BS on someone...

With a .22LR marked lower, I would imagine that the argument that it's a dedicated lower that just happens to take a standard AR magazine but the INTENT of the lower is for a .22LR....It's all about splitting hairs...I mean what's the difference between having a "COLT AR-15" marked lower vs. a lower marked "COLT CAR-A3"?? It's just as stupid as that, but in court, there's a difference (even though it's completely asinine)

This is the stupidity the CA DOJ and the BATFE have inflicted upon the people they're supposed to be serving.

That being said, I'm signed up for a .22LR marked lower!
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Last edited by RECCE556; 11-26-2007 at 5:03 PM..
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  #10  
Old 11-26-2007, 5:13 PM
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Quote:
It's all about splitting hairs...
I think I saw this done on TV, with a glove, If you have a .22LR conversion unit in the rifle, a .22 LR magazine and you hand the judge a 223 centerfire round. WILL HE BE ABLE TO FIRE THAT ROUND IN THAT RIFLE WITHOUT CHANGING or ADDING PARTS? Talk about a stupid law.
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  #11  
Old 11-26-2007, 5:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RECCE556 View Post
Because the way DOJ thinks (I use that term very loosely), if you have a 5.56 upper along with a 5.56 MARKED lower that has a .22LR upper, you COULD go up against a "constructive possession" charge. It's like having a K-Grip in a shoebox with a SP89 (not installed on the SP89)...the BATFE considers that "constructive possession" of a AOW and the CA DOJ is, IMO, more likely to really lay that kind of BS on someone...

With a .22LR marked lower, I would imagine that the argument that it's a dedicated lower that just happens to take a standard AR magazine but the INTENT of the lower is for a .22LR....It's all about splitting hairs...I mean what's the difference between having a "COLT AR-15" marked lower vs. a lower marked "COLT CAR-A3"?? It's just as stupid as that, but in court, there's a difference (even though it's completely asinine)

This is the stupidity the CA DOJ and the BATFE have inflicted upon the people they're supposed to be serving.

That being said, I'm signed up for a .22LR marked lower!

I certainly see your point. You did an excellent job of explaining DOJs bizarre thought processes. Might get one myself. Right now I only keep a couple of C&R bolties at the CA house, and all the good stuff here in AZ. Just to avoid the type of nonsense you describe.
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  #12  
Old 11-26-2007, 5:34 PM
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You guys correct me if Im wrong but there is no"constructive possesion" in CA, and the BATF is only for NFA guns/machineguns
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  #13  
Old 11-26-2007, 5:39 PM
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I know the Feds do have constructive possession laws concerning title II firearms. I have no idea if CA has them regarding any or all guns.
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  #14  
Old 11-26-2007, 6:19 PM
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I'm waiting for BWeise
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  #15  
Old 11-26-2007, 6:22 PM
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There is no such thing as constructive possession of an "assault rifle". Constructive possession is Federal and only applies to NFA weapons.
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  #16  
Old 11-26-2007, 6:49 PM
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Are we still arguing about the legality of this? I've had one of these for over a year. No .22lr markings here, although I will admit to filling in the .223/5.56 markings because I was paranoid at the time. If I got this rifle today I wouldn't even bother.


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Last edited by jumbopanda; 11-26-2007 at 6:53 PM..
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  #17  
Old 11-26-2007, 11:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toolbox X View Post
There is no such thing as constructive possession of an "assault rifle". Constructive possession is Federal and only applies to NFA weapons.
That's good to know but considering the kind of BS that the DOJ pulls, I think a .22LR marked lower is just one step in your favor. You have to think lowest common "government worker" denominator. A .22LR marked lower with a .22LR upper will is more likely to prevent an impromptu latex glove examination...
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Last edited by RECCE556; 11-27-2007 at 2:05 AM..
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  #18  
Old 11-27-2007, 6:07 AM
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I'm in for a lower mark 22LR. Just let me know when they are ready to be sold.
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  #19  
Old 11-28-2007, 7:39 AM
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UPDATE: 22LR Lower halves and stripped lowers for sale 12/08/07!
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** AR 15 and AR10 off list CA compliant rifles **

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  #20  
Old 11-28-2007, 9:37 AM
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Is your price going to be able to compete with an even cooler GSG-5 at only $500 a pop?
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  #21  
Old 11-30-2007, 6:21 AM
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The GSG5 .22LR is a lightweight, almost Airsoft type rifle that will appeal to the HK fans even though they have no HK parts inside.
A German arms exporter we spoke to said they have a toy like feel and the extra mags according to the US dealer will be tough to get! So much for detachable mags!

Our M261 .22LR AR pattern rifles will be a serious shooter with actual .221 barrels that can interchange out using a .17 Mach 2 sleeve to keep your rimfire choices going at a much lower cost!

Training with these rifles will be better due to ammunition costs are much lower and detachable mags are required in combat classes. See the video of this rifle: CLICK HERE -> M261 .22LR Detachable Magazine AR rifle - watch the mags being dumped 3 times !

This platform will also accept a centerfire upper * in any caliber in the future by changing out the upper and magazine - choose between: 9mm, .40S&W, 10mm, .45ACP, .357 SIG, 5.56mm, 6.8mm, 6.5 Grendel, .458 SOCOM, .50 Beowulf, etc..>
* Centerfire upper will require the user to install a mag locking device to be compliant and use a tool release the mag!

A big plus: M261 magazines for these are being built by Black Dog Machine (who also makes the Ciener/Atchison/Spikes 22LR mags).

We have a working .22LR Detachable Magazine RIMFIRE AR15 prototype in the shop and our video showing the actual dumping of 3 magazines is on our website!

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Last edited by SFV_Dealer; 11-30-2007 at 6:33 AM..
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  #22  
Old 11-30-2007, 4:33 PM
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SFV Dealer,

Will you be offering the M261 device itself?
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  #23  
Old 11-30-2007, 6:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jumbopanda View Post
Are we still arguing about the legality of this? I've had one of these for over a year. No .22lr markings here, although I will admit to filling in the .223/5.56 markings because I was paranoid at the time. If I got this rifle today I wouldn't even bother.



Does that magazine work with a Ciener kit? If so, where do you get them?
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  #24  
Old 12-01-2007, 6:34 AM
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Ah good question Tygerpaw:
There are many different platforms for the 22LR M16/AR15 rifles out there which is causing some confusion.
Here is a basic platform list with the different magazines they take:

M261 = military / Sarco M16 based platform uses Adventure Line / Numrich Gun Parts / Olympic Arms 30rd Aluminum GI body w/ 10rd insert. Black Dog will be making the plastic mags for this platform - we have a prototype magazine marked "OLYMPIC ARMS" from Black Dog we are using.

Ciener/Atchison = Ciener / Atchison uses full bolts and Spikes, Model 1 Sales uses modified cut off Ciener bolts and all will work with Black Dog Machine mags 100% and reliable even in full auto.

Air Force / Colt = DPMS & Colt uses this platform.

Bushmaster = proprietary only to BM made in Arizona.

CZ = proprietary only to CZ - can't find anymore because none from the Czech republic can be imported...
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