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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel. |
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Visiting Arizona
I have a decent knowledge of Arizona firearms laws, but I'd like to make sure I'm on solid footing before visiting AZ. I'll probably be in Phoenix. Here are some question I have. FYI I'm a permit holder.
- Is OC socially discouraged in Phoenix? - How about the rest of AZ? - Are the "no firearms" signs for restaurants / bars that serve alcohol? Or are they for any private business. - Is a violation of one of these signs while CCWing considered criminal? I do know campus carry is still not allowed. Anything else to know?
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#2
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You can CC with out a permit, it you have to talk with LE you must tell him you are CC and let hold the gun, if he wants to. I have seen LOC there, you can find AZ gun laws on line, have fun and stay safe.
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"One useless man is called a disgrace, two become a law firm, and three or more become a Congress." the new avatar is a painting from 1906, escape from San Francisco. |
#3
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- Is OC socially discouraged in Phoenix? OC is generally accepted in all of AZ. Loaded Open Carry is perfectly legal throughout the state. - How about the rest of AZ? See above. - Are the "no firearms" signs for restaurants / bars that serve alcohol? Or are they for any private business. I believe they are for alcohol serving establishements. Private businesses that don't serve alcohol are also using them, but I don't think they carry the weight of law. - Is a violation of one of these signs while CCWing considered criminal? If you don't have a CCW and carry into an alcohol serving establishment that is posted as required by law, it is illegal and carries consequences. If I am reading the Arizona Code correctly, it is considered "Misconduct with a firearm" and is a Class 2 of a Class 3 felony. http://www.azdps.gov/Links/ARS/?l=13/03102.htm
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If you haven't seen it with your own eyes, or heard it with your own ears, don't make it up with your small mind, or spread it with your big mouth. Last edited by Decoligny; 07-06-2011 at 1:49 PM.. |
#4
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LOC is more common in the 'outback'. While AZ doesn't have the retarded mindset of CA it's still not a common occurance in downtown Phoenix and may raise an eyebrow or two.
For the life of me, please explain the novelty of LOC unless one is just an attention whore? In a place where it's legal to cc just keep it covered. Why would one want to draw attention to oneself? Rio |
#5
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It's quite hot in Phoenix this time of year, and I'll probably want to wear summer clothes. Practically, that means wearing shirts that probably won't always do the best job concealed. The good thing is, I don't have to worry about accidental exposures, because LOC is legal anyway.
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#6
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Being from AZ I would say that open carry is accepted. I wouldn't see it often but I have a time or two.
If you do NOT have a AZ CCW then you can not go into a business that serves alcoholic drinks ( a liquor store doesn't serve drinks )...CCW can carry if no signs are posted If a business has posted no firearms allowed you must follow their wishes.. I believe it is a crime to CCW or LOC when signs are posted NO Firearms. It's been a few years but I think my info is current
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Last edited by Ding126; 07-06-2011 at 1:51 PM.. |
#7
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so is it OK for a non-resident to CC without a permit? At first I thought this was the case, but seeing as they still have a CCW permit process, I thought maybe it was different for non-residents?
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#9
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- Clear exemption from the federal GFSZ law. - Ability to carry in more places, such as restaurants / bars that serve alcohol. - Reciprocity with other states.
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#10
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I cant say about Phoenix but the biggest reaction you'll get to LOC in Yuma is a yawn...if anyone even notices at all. You do not have to tell an officer you are armed unless they ask you. Then you must tell the truth and surrender the weapon to them if they ask for it but only for the duration of the lawful detention. I'm just going to ignore the attention whore comment due to its intrinsic ignorance...
As far as bars if you have a ccw you can carry inside but it must be concealed. No OC in any establishment that serves alcohol for consumption on the premises including restaurants. You also cannot drink any alcohol while carrying. As far as I am aware signs that say no weapons only have the force of law when they are posted at places that sell alcohol NOT for consumption on the premises (liquor stores and grocery stores etc.) but dont quote me on that. In other types of businesses the only thing that has the force of law is the request of a representative of the business that you either store the weapon or leave. It is a trespassing charge if you are asked to disarm or leave and you refuse. But AFAIK merely carrying into a business that has a sign is not a violation of law, so if you just conceal and go in despite the sign, and someone makes you and calls the cops without first asking you to leave there are no criminal charges. Violating the provisions in regard to alcohol and weapons are misdemeanors and can carry jail sentences. IANAL so this is just my interpretion of what I have read in the statutes...I have read almost all of the statutes pertaining to firearms but YMMV and all that. |
#11
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"Did I say "republic?" By God, yes, I said "republic!" Long live the glorious republic of the United States of America. Damn democracy. It is a fraudulent term used, often by ignorant persons but no less often by intellectual fakers, to describe an infamous mixture of socialism, miscegenation, graft, confiscation of property and denial of personal rights to individuals whose virtuous principles make them offensive." - Westbrook Pegler Last edited by dustoff31; 07-06-2011 at 2:28 PM.. |
#12
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#14
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Care to offer a couple of examples? I don't see any bad info. And there are at least two AZ residents who have posted in this thread.
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"Did I say "republic?" By God, yes, I said "republic!" Long live the glorious republic of the United States of America. Damn democracy. It is a fraudulent term used, often by ignorant persons but no less often by intellectual fakers, to describe an infamous mixture of socialism, miscegenation, graft, confiscation of property and denial of personal rights to individuals whose virtuous principles make them offensive." - Westbrook Pegler |
#15
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As to legalities. Those signs asking you to NOT carry, LOC or CCW, are enforceable. The opt out system was a trade off with the legislature for the Con Carry bill. If you are in an establishment that has one of those signs, bar or not, you cannot carry there, CCW or LOC, unless you have a permit. CCW permit holders can carry more places, but have restrictions such as drinking in bars and certain food establishments, government places and of course, schools. I believe they have the right to ask you to leave immediately, and only does the law get involved if you don't (argue with the property owner/operator you have 'rights', etc.).
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"Over-sentimentality, over-softness, in fact washiness and mushiness are the great dangers of this age and of this people. Unless we keep the barbarian virtue, gaining the civilized ones will be of little avail." - Theodore Roosevelt Quote:
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#16
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We LOC in Arizona because we can and if you Kommyfornya tourists don't like it, then STFO of Arizona.
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"If 5% of Ducks could shoot back, would you go Duck hunting?" |
#18
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I think I understand most of the laws now. The one that still confuses me the most is regarding "no firearms" signs.
I see that in the law that allows Arizona CCW permit holders to carry in establishments that serve alcohol, the liquor license holder can post a "no firearms" sign, and that actually dictates whether or not the permit holder can carry on the premises. I would assume when other, non alcohol-serving establishments post "no firearms," it is private property issue, where if you're asked to leave or to disarm, you'll need to do so. After hearing the feedback, I'll bring both of my holsters, but I'll plan on using the IWB at all times unless I feel there's go reason to do otherwise. For the record, I'm awaiting an AZ permit, but I'm already an OR and FL permit holder.
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#19
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Maybe I should change my location to Mesa, Ehrenberg, and Corona. Rio |
#20
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Does the training still need to be on AZ soil to get your initial permit?
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"Over-sentimentality, over-softness, in fact washiness and mushiness are the great dangers of this age and of this people. Unless we keep the barbarian virtue, gaining the civilized ones will be of little avail." - Theodore Roosevelt Quote:
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#22
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When AZ went "constitutional carry", they also relaxed their CCW permit training requirements. |
#23
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I think we've covered it pretty well. Oh, State/county/local parks. You can carry in parks with a CCW even if it's posted no guns. GFSZ exemption with a CCW. As if that were a concern in AZ.
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"Did I say "republic?" By God, yes, I said "republic!" Long live the glorious republic of the United States of America. Damn democracy. It is a fraudulent term used, often by ignorant persons but no less often by intellectual fakers, to describe an infamous mixture of socialism, miscegenation, graft, confiscation of property and denial of personal rights to individuals whose virtuous principles make them offensive." - Westbrook Pegler |
#24
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If a bar is posted. You may not carry there at all, in any manner. It is a crime. Misconduct with Weapons. You will go to jail and you CCW will be revoked. Quote:
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"Did I say "republic?" By God, yes, I said "republic!" Long live the glorious republic of the United States of America. Damn democracy. It is a fraudulent term used, often by ignorant persons but no less often by intellectual fakers, to describe an infamous mixture of socialism, miscegenation, graft, confiscation of property and denial of personal rights to individuals whose virtuous principles make them offensive." - Westbrook Pegler |
#25
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So I'm in Phoenix and I carried today. I must say, I find the ARS 4-229 law really annoying. It is definitely a good step to be able to carry on the premises of a liquor license holder, but it's annoying to never know whether or not a restaurant or other establishment will have a posted sign. The statue does excuse going in to look for a firearms prohibited sign. It also says being a non resident is an affirmative defense. Still, I find it really annoying that no guns signs are given force of law over mere private property issues.
Also I should note, I visited a museum that had listed on their entrance "Pursuant to ARS 4.229, No Weapons Allowed." It's sort of funny to see complete misuses of that statute. The museum was obviously not a liquor license holder, and the signage wasn't even close to the ARS requirement. I will say it has been nice to carry, and I've enjoyed my time here so far.
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Last edited by CalBear; 07-16-2011 at 11:07 PM.. |
#26
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LOC is legal in NV as well, around here in northern NV you only see it once in awhile.
When I do it its generall because its to damm hot for a vest or I'm running errands or I just plain simply forgot a vest or my wallet - you can only ccw if you have your permit with you. People who call it (LOC) attention seeking have serious codependency issues, they think what other people do/say/wear has something to do with them. It doesn't. People who go around imagining they know what other people are thinking are nucking futts
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#28
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Update:
After re-reading the statutes on the posted no firearms signs, I would say that if you see a fairly conspicuous sign anywhere, doesn't matter what kind of business it is, you can be charged with criminal trespassing (3rd class misdo with potential county time) if you carry on the property even if you are not asked to leave. I used to think the signs themselves only had the force of law behind them in regards to alcohol. I now think otherwise.
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"Who is the more foolish? The fool, or the fool that follows him?"-Obi Wan Kenobi the question here is not whether the carrying of arms is a good idea—the question is whether carrying arms is constitutionally protected. Objective standards and due process—not Defendants’ philosophy or personal beliefs about the value of this activity—must carry the day-Alan Gura |
#29
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In numerous visits to Arizona over the last 15 years, I guess I've seen fewer than ten people open carrying. But then again, no one seems to pay much attention to them. I carry concealed there (have had a permit since 2002).
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"It is long been a principle of ours that one is no more armed because he has possession of a firearm than he is a musician because he owns a piano. There is no point in having a gun if you are not capable of using it skillfully." -- Jeff Cooper |
#30
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i do not carry concealed or otherwise myself, and again, folks over there don't get paranoid at the sight of someone wearing a sidearm openly. i once saw a cowboy near the Dewey-Humboldt area out on horseback with his Colt SAA, chaps, Winchester lever in a saddle holster, etc just like what we would envision a 1880's era cowboy to look like. did my heart good to see what freedom from legislative oppression can be like...
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NRA life member, US Army Veteran i am a legend in my own mind... we are told not to judge muslims by what a few do...yet, the NRA membership and firearms owners are ALL considered as radical... "The second amendment ain't about your deer rifle..." Last edited by donw; 07-18-2011 at 8:22 AM.. |
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