Best 7.62x39 SHTF Ammo?

[xxxx]

Looking to bulk up on some 7.62x39 ammo in case of emergencies such as an earthquake I was looking at these:

7.62x39 Fiocchi Brass Cased Copper Jacketed FMJ Ammo

7.62x39 Winchester USA 123gr. FMJ Ammo

and one box of

7.62X39 Hornady 123gr. SST Ballistic Tip Ammo

I was also thinking of picking up some JHP/HP/SP - but I don't know how much good they would do in terms of over penetration (is it even worth it or should I just pick up FMJ?)

School me on 7.62 defensive ammo - I don't want to pick up the corrosive Yugo stuff and I don't want to go broke (going to be picking up MAX 600 rounds) it would also be great if I could practice (and test to see if it feeds reliably) at ranges with the same ammo I buy, so steel core could be a problem.

This is going to be going through a WASR AK and maybe a DRACO AK if I pick one up.

[atsaubrey]

Wolf. 640rd spam can less than $200 to your door. Its all i shoot in my AK, feeds perfect, never a failed round, accurate as an AK needs to be. Although I would imagine you could find even cheaper. http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/c...05292&bi=92750

[manuelcardenas77]

Any ammo It's a AK!

[xxxx]

My AK is actually a bit picky sometimes... Wolf was eating up my bullet guide and the bolt does not go back into battery...

[manuelcardenas77]

THat sucks well whatever works just stock up on that.

[xxxx]

Any recommendations? Winchester White Box or Fiocchi or anything else?

[Farva]

Any steel cased russian junk ammo.

[ZX-10R]

That is pricier ammo than you need. Yugo surplus...You will be grateful for how much Yugo you can get for the price...SHTF means to me means more ammo not less. You differences will be there but not huge. Save yourself a bit of $$$ and get the Yugo or any steel cased ammo. It's an AK pattern...That says it all.

[salazar44]

out of curiosity... what do you have against the yugo surplus? it works very well and is able to be shot at any range. rather than being stuck on the corrosive part, just clean the gun afterward as you would anyway.

[Milsurps]

Originally Posted by xxxx

Any recommendations? Winchester White Box or Fiocchi or anything else?

The Winchester White Box and Fiocchi are both non-magnetic. So shooting at local ranges they won't be a problem. Both shoot smoothly and reliably in my SKS's.
YMMV

[jubjubrsx]

my vote is for yugo surplus ammo...dirt cheap how can you go wrong with that?

[Flintlock Tom]

My only objection to the Yugo surplus, if you buy in bulk it comes in sealed spam cans. I hate to open the sealed can to do some plinking, 'cause then it's not a "sealed spam can."
Buy one to shoot and one to store?

[QQQ]

Originally Posted by Flintlock Tom

My only objection to the Yugo surplus, if you buy in bulk it comes in sealed spam cans. I hate to open the sealed can to do some plinking, 'cause then it's not a "sealed spam can."
Buy one to shoot and one to store?

That's what I did. 1,260 to shoot and 1,260 to store. I've been through most of the "plinking" box and would have bought much more if I could afford it. Yes, it's corrosive, but you'd have to be really really really negligent for the corrosion to get so bad that it interferes with the performance of your AK. Clean the gas-exposed parts out with water or windex then do a normal cleaning shortly after use and you won't have any corrosion at all.

[Steyr_223]

I have a number of crates of Yugo and ChiCom 7.62x39..Tested some early 70's Chicom steelcore/80's Yugo recently. It out shot the newer Wolf/WWB and Silver Bear ammo. The Milsup has more "kick" and was more accurate.. Props to the Commies for making great ammo.. Not bad for 40 year old ammo.. I have had the Chicom ammo since the 80s when they were cheap at the San Mateo and Pleasanton gun shows..It was really cheap at the time..Less the $.10 a round IIRC..

[H2O MAN]

I like Golden Tiger and purchased cases of it when it first came
out and I also have cases of mostly yellow box Norinco ammo.

[Sheepdog1968]

Originally Posted by xxxx

My AK is actually a bit picky sometimes... Wolf was eating up my bullet guide and the bolt does not go back into battery...

Based on this, I would choose ammo you know works in your system. My general approach is to have 100 or 200 rounds of real defensive type ammo (Hornady TAP, etc) for each firearm I envision being a self defense weapon. After that, I just have bulk ammo I use for social plinking that feeds well. That way I'm covered for an immediate and long term problem.

[Reductio]

Yugo for sure, cheap, reliable, and produces great wound channels.

[Bizcuits]

Originally Posted by xxxx

Any recommendations? Winchester White Box or Fiocchi or anything else?

Buy a box of each, fire a 50-100rds, which ever one feeds the best, buy a bunch. Stockpiling unproven ammo based on someones experience with a different gun isn't a smart idea. Every gun is different, what feeds in my Glock 19 may not feed in your Glock 19. We can assume they'll both feed well on the same ammo and probably will, but do you want to be assuming when you need the weapon to save your life?

[pyro3k2]

buy a few boxes of spam can ammo, see which ever one works the best and buy a can. Yugo mil-surp is brass cases so it should be easier for your AK to like it.

[Rekrab]

If you're serious about SHTF then you might want to figure out why your AK doesn't like Wolf. I've never had a problem with Wolf in my home builds or my Saiga. You don't want to be forced to be picky in an emergency situation.

[Steyr_223]

Originally Posted by xxxx

My AK is actually a bit picky sometimes... Wolf was eating up my bullet guide and the bolt does not go back into battery...

That should not be happening with Wolf steel case..You should have your AK checked out, something is wrong.

So the American made ammo does not have the same problems?

[powah]

I have some really good results with:

Golden Tiger
Golden Bear
Yugo M66
Some Wolf as well as one of wolf types is made by PrviPartizan, which is the same factory who made all Yugo surplus ammo.

[xxxx]

Please forgive my ignorance, I don't hunt and I am not familiar with defensive rifle rounds (esp 7.62x39).

Here's the issue: That steel core stuff - I can't really shoot it easily to test it at ranges, hence I don't know how much my AK will like it.

The WWB and Fiocchi I know my AK likes - however I am very ignorant on the performance differences in terms of expansion/tissue damage, and penetration of barriers. I see most 7.62x39 is 123gr but I see a few that are 150gr, I would imagine that the 150gr would be excellent coming out of a 10" barrel if I ever get a DRACO.

I have been trying to research but it seems I missed the prerequisite class.

I cannot positivity identify the stuff I have tried to cycle in my AK, a friend loaned me a few rounds - but it did not go over well. I will take a few pictures of the ammo and post it here.

[LBDamned]

Century has Yugo surplus for $257 shipped for a case (1260)... I just ordered some last night.

discount is good till May 31st and is deducted after added to shopping cart: http://www.centuryarms.biz/proddetail.asp?prod=AM885

I know some people dont like the idea of corrosive Yugo - but I've shot a bunch of it (not the stuff from Century yet) and havent had any problems... I'd rather have brass so I can shoot at outdoor ranges and I'm more concerned about lacquer than I am corrosive.

[xxxx]

Well from what I have been reading I would prefer to have brass instead of steel casing and no corrosive primers. Most of the time I shoot at an indoor range that requires me to shoot their ammo (frangible). I would like to stay as close to military grade while having it feed reliably with brass. I understand the concept of steel core but I am not understanding how much it affects 7.62x39 ballistics.

[Lucky Scott]

Buy one can to shoot and one to store, or maybe three to store. It all depends on your budget.

I am not a AK shooter, but shoot the same round in my SKS. I tried wolf, Bear, yugo, and tiger.
All shot well, functioned in the gun well, and grouped similar. The only thing the SKS did not like was hollow points, it preferred FMJ.

[SofaGeorge]

I shoot Silver Bear sp... 500 for $100

[xxxx]

Does anyone know where I can buy X76239 in bulk???

[cannon]

Originally Posted by xxxx

Does anyone know where I can buy X76239 in bulk???

Samco Global Arms
Classic Arms Inc.
Palmetto State armory
J&G
AIM Surplus
Peach State Guns
Ammunition to go

[Cali-Shooter]

Originally Posted by manuelcardenas77

Any ammo It's a AK!

I agree with this to an extent.

But I think that having a storage of both steel cased and brass cased 7.62x39 ammo is a good option. For an AK-47, I wouldn't hesitate to use FMJ ammo for SD or outdoor HD use. Just be ready to follow-up those shots in case the threat isn't neutralized.

[C_1]

Originally Posted by xxxx

My AK is actually a bit picky sometimes... Wolf was eating up my bullet guide and the bolt does not go back into battery...

You might want to check out your AK. Maybe adjust/mod/grind/bevel the bullet guide and clean the chamber. Its an AK, so it should eat up just about any ammo you throw in it. Steel case and steel core is not going to hurt an AK, but if the local ranges dont allow it (because of fires), then youre stuck with brass.

Yugo surplus ammo (corrosive but cleaning it shouldnt be a problem) is inexpensive, but if you dont like that, then you gotta cough up the dough. Fiocchi and Winchester FMJs should work about the same. HPs might be "better" but the bullet's tip could impede reliable feeding.

Either way, practice, train, and shoot the ammo you plan on storing; making sure its reliable..

[CSACANNONEER]

The best ammo to stockpile right now is Yugo surplus.

Originally Posted by atsaubrey

Wolf. 640rd spam can less than $200 to your door. Its all i shoot in my AK, feeds perfect, never a failed round, accurate as an AK needs to be. Although I would imagine you could find even cheaper. http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/c...05292&bi=92750

Two questions for you. First, why would you spend close to $200 for 640 rounds of crap ammo when you can get 1260 rounds of Yugo on stripper clips for $200-$250? Secondly, why the hell would you even hint at buying from a place like Sportsman's Guide? They do more to hurt California's gun owners than the Bradys do!

[Richard Erichsen]

Originally Posted by xxxx

My AK is actually a bit picky sometimes... Wolf was eating up my bullet guide and the bolt does not go back into battery...

This sounds like a rail height or mag problem, not an ammunition issue. Have you tried different magazines, same Wolf ammo?

-R

[Barabas]

I'd worry less about finding a particular type of SHTF ammo and more about getting a rifle that works with any ammo you can run through it.

AK's aren't supposed to be picky. There's something wrong with your rifle.

[Cuerno_de_Chivo]

Your AK should eat anything you give it. Mine does, get that rifle checked.

[Richard Erichsen]

Originally Posted by xxxx

Looking to bulk up on some 7.62x39 ammo in case of emergencies such as an earthquake I was looking at these:

7.62x39 Fiocchi Brass Cased Copper Jacketed FMJ Ammo

7.62x39 Winchester USA 123gr. FMJ Ammo

and one box of

7.62X39 Hornady 123gr. SST Ballistic Tip Ammo

I was also thinking of picking up some JHP/HP/SP - but I don't know how much good they would do in terms of over penetration (is it even worth it or should I just pick up FMJ?)

School me on 7.62 defensive ammo - I don't want to pick up the corrosive Yugo stuff and I don't want to go broke (going to be picking up MAX 600 rounds) it would also be great if I could practice (and test to see if it feeds reliably) at ranges with the same ammo I buy, so steel core could be a problem.

This is going to be going through a WASR AK and maybe a DRACO AK if I pick one up.

As other posters have also said, Yugo surplus M67 ammo is not highly corrosive - Yugo barrels are for the most part not even chrome lined and not because Yugoslavia couldn't gain access to chromium, they certainly chromed things they felt needed to be chromed. Normal post range cleaning or regular maintenance (which is undemanding) is all that is needed. While it's a best practice to swab the bore and remove the corrosive salts that form after firing whenever you have time to run a bore snake or cleaning rod and swab through, users of unchromed bores report no unusual effects on their bores as a result of skipping a few cleanings.

The combination to watch out for is high humidity in conjunction with the corrosive salts. A quick bath in a puddle is all that's really needed to remove most of these salts, followed up with using a balled up shoestring to pull through the bore (that's how Serbian soldiers with no cleaning kit on hand did it) and you're done. If you live in the desert Southwestern US, you will not experience a problem with mildly corrosive ammo like Yugo surplus.

On the other hand, if you don't buy any Yugo surplus, that will leave at least a few thousand more rounds in circulation for the rest of us to buy.

-R

[Richard Erichsen]

Originally Posted by xxxx

Please forgive my ignorance, I don't hunt and I am not familiar with defensive rifle rounds (esp 7.62x39).

Here's the issue: That steel core stuff - I can't really shoot it easily to test it at ranges, hence I don't know how much my AK will like it.

The WWB and Fiocchi I know my AK likes - however I am very ignorant on the performance differences in terms of expansion/tissue damage, and penetration of barriers. I see most 7.62x39 is 123gr but I see a few that are 150gr, I would imagine that the 150gr would be excellent coming out of a 10" barrel if I ever get a DRACO.

I have been trying to research but it seems I missed the prerequisite class.

I cannot positivity identify the stuff I have tried to cycle in my AK, a friend loaned me a few rounds - but it did not go over well. I will take a few pictures of the ammo and post it here.

Steel core has been unimportable per BATF for some time - BATF doesn't distinguish between steel core ammo that is hardened and designed to be armor piercing and the mild steel found in M43 ammo like the original (ancient) Soviet and Chinese stuff. All the ammo you buy now (legally) is lead core, the jacket is often mild steel with a copper plate.

Most 7.62x39 mm surplus rounds (Uly Sapsan 8M3 being the exception) will not fragment, these rounds rely on mass, diameter and tumbling to create their wounding.

You can buy spire/soft point ammo domestically from the likes of Winchester, Remington and Federal that's appropriate for hunting, but tends to penetrate a bit deep before expands or tumbles. If you see ammo with 150 grain projectiles, it's guaranteed to be commercial, not milspec/surplus. The weight range for milspec 7.62x39 was tight - 122-125 grain, so that the sights would be correctly calibrated to the trajectory. 150 grain is about as heavy as you can reasonably go with the 7.62x39 mm case, though I've seen some oddball 160-170 grain stuff, but it was handloaded and using bullets for the .303 British/7.7 Arisaka (both of which are .311").

There is also the Uly Sapsan 8M3 frangible round previously mentioned. Wolf Military Classic HP was for one time just re-labelled 8M3 ammo and while not easy to find now is terrific stuff. Hornady TAP, and the VMAX and SST rounds are prone to fragmentation and have slightly shorter "necks" prior to upset as tested in ballistic gelatin compared to 8M3 as I understand it. Unfortunately, I have been unable to relocate the ballistic tests to confirm whether Uly 8M3 or Hornady's varmint rounds had the earlier upset prior to fragmentation. Any large animal shot with either is going to have a lot of ruined meat. Stick with the soft points for hunting.

Your AK may prefer a specific ammo for accuracy on target, but none should fail to cycle the weapon if the weapon is mechanically sound. An AK should feed with ammo of widely varying pressure without fuss. Dimensionally, as long as OAL length meets the requirements, pointy or round nosed won't matter. As mentioned, I suspect rail height (a manufacturing error when the rails are welded in) or the magazine itself as the culprit. AK mags aren't prone to weirdness in the follower, but I had an odd FTF with a mag that had a follower with a flaw in the plastic follower than caused rounds to jump at an angle instead of stripping it. I opened up the feed lips trying to "fix" the problem and only made it worse. After replacing the follower and adjusting the feedlips back to their correct angle and position, the problem was solved.

-R

[CSACANNONEER]

Originally Posted by Richard Erichsen

Steel core has been unimportable per BATF for some time - BATF doesn't distinguish between steel core ammo that is hardened and designed to be armor piercing and the mild steel found in M43 ammo like the original (ancient) Soviet and Chinese stuff. All the ammo you buy now (legally) is lead core, the jacket is often mild steel with a copper plate.

-R

This is simply NOT TRUE. It is still perfectly legal to buy and sell steel cored ammo.

[Richard Erichsen]

Originally Posted by CSACANNONEER

This is simply NOT TRUE. It is still perfectly legal to buy and sell steel cored ammo.

CSA,

While you can still find Russian and Chinese M43 steel core on Gunbroker and the likes, this all appears to be old surplus, not newly imported. Are you aware of any waiver or legal bypass to import new steel core ammo and if so, through which distributor?

-R

[schneiderguy]

Originally Posted by Richard Erichsen

CSA,

While you can still find Russian and Chinese M43 steel core on Gunbroker and the likes, this all appears to be old surplus, not newly imported. Are you aware of any waiver or legal bypass to import new steel core ammo and if so, through which distributor?

-R

I believe all of the surplus 5.45x39mm is steel core and that's still available for purchase and being imported.