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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1  
Old 05-04-2009, 6:34 PM
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Exclamation Anaheim PD is holding my guns [UPDATED 6/11/09]

[UPDATE in post #68]


Late last year, two of my firearms were confiscated from my home by the Anaheim PD. The reason being, firearms are not allowed to be in my father's possession (just for clarification, I’m 20 years old and I live with my parents). My dad was arrested that night. Now with that said, the firearms were not in my father's possession. They were my guns, in my room, all individually locked, and away from my dad. About a week later, the charges were dropped. A detective called me and said that the guns can’t be returned to me because they are not registered to me (they were registered to my grandfather, who was/is deceased). He told me that if I wanted them back, I need to wait until I am 21 years old (I’m 21 in late June) to register them to me. I hated the idea of these guns sitting in an evidence room for that long. I then informed him of the Intrafamilial handgun transfer process. He agreed that was a better option for getting the handguns back, and in a timely fashion too. I went through with the Intrafamilial handgun transfer and just recently received a notice from the DOJ-BOF stating:

"This is to acknowledge that the Department of Justice has processed your request and has made an entry in the the Automated Firearms System for the following firearm.....”

Both handguns had been successfully registered to me.


The form went on to say:

"A firearm eligibility check has been completed confirming your eligibility to possess firearms. If this is pertaining to a firearm being held by a law enforcement agency, the agency may return the firearm to you only if you present this letter to the agency within 30 days of the date on this letter.”

I called up the detective I had originally spoken to and told him that I can now fax him the forms to have the guns released. He told me to call Anaheim PD's Property Detail dept. to have that done. So I called them. A woman from that dept. told me to get the detective to sign a release form stating that the firearms can be released from their custody. I called the detective back and he filled out the release forms. I called up the Property Detail again asking them if they would like me to now fax the I.H.T. forms to them so they can verify that the I.H.T. process has been successfully completed. She then tells me that I need to submit the Law Enforcement Gun Release (LEGR) form, and fee, to the DOJ. She tells me that this form, when processed, will notify the agency holding the guns that the DOJ has done a check to verify my eligibility of owning firearms and that the DOJ permits the release of the firearms from the law enforcement agency’s custody (that will take another month or two to be processed, BTW). I find it odd though, that is exactly what the I.H.T confirmation form specifically verified.

What is going on here? Am I just chasing my tail? Will I even get my guns back? Or am I just too frustrated to see the light at the end of the tunnel?

As for the legality of the officers confiscating my property, AND arresting my dad over it... if you have any advice or legal info on that subject, PM me.
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Last edited by andrewj; 06-12-2009 at 8:47 AM..
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Old 05-04-2009, 6:44 PM
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If you have enough for a lawyer, I would get some referrals from here. Sounds like you're facing age discrimination.
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Old 05-04-2009, 6:44 PM
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You're on the right track. California makes it as difficult as humanly possible to get a gun back from the PD under any circumstances. Be prepared for a frickin' run-around.

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Old 05-04-2009, 6:52 PM
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Even though you completed the transfer. A LEGR form is required. And yes you are chasing your tail, but it isn't Anaheim PD's doing, that is a required form... Thank our friends in Sacramento....
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Old 05-04-2009, 6:52 PM
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+1... you will be made to jump through hoop after hoop after hoop. A demand letter from an attorney, showing that you've fulfilled all the legal requirements, should do the trick. If you have the scratch to engage one of The Right People, do it.
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  #6  
Old 05-04-2009, 6:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HowardW56 View Post
Even though you completed the transfer. A LEGR form is required. And yes you are chasing your tail, but it isn't Anaheim PD's doing, that is a required form... Thank our friends in Sacramento....
You're correct. I just looked up the LEGR form:

Quote:
On January 1, 2005, the Law Enforcement Gun Release (LEGR) process became effective with the addition of Penal Code (PC) section 12021.3. This process requires any person who claims title to any firearm that is in the custody or control of a court or law enforcement agency and who wishes to have the firearm returned to submit a LEGR Application form for a determination by the Department of Justice (DOJ) as to whether he or she is eligible to possess a firearm.
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Old 05-04-2009, 8:16 PM
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Andrew, the letter you received from DOJ is the same letter I received after submitting the LEGR form to them. You are good to go, Anaheim P.D. can release those guns to you. I might also add that you need to present the original copy complete with gold seal to them as the official copy.
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Old 05-04-2009, 8:39 PM
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Your letter is the same as an LEGR. You need to get the property clerk to call the person at DOJ who signed your letter, and the enroll them in an ESL class, because they obviously don't read english very well.

Quote:
"A firearm eligibility check has been completed confirming your eligibility to possess firearms. If this is pertaining to a firearm being held by a law enforcement agency, the agency may return the firearm to you only if you present this letter to the agency within 30 days of the date on this letter.”
That is what an LEGR is, an eligibility check.
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  #9  
Old 05-04-2009, 8:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadrunner View Post
Andrew, the letter you received from DOJ is the same letter I received after submitting the LEGR form to them. You are good to go, Anaheim P.D. can release those guns to you. I might also add that you need to present the original copy complete with gold seal to them as the official copy.
Were you required to pay a fee when you submitted the LEGR form?

When I spoke to the woman at the Property Detail dept, she kept asking if my form had the gold seal on it. It doesnt but should it really matter?
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  #10  
Old 05-04-2009, 8:45 PM
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Not to threadjack, but can a COE issued by the CA DOJ simplify this process (perhaps act as a replacement for an LEGR)?

Just curious.
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Old 05-04-2009, 8:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewjarvi View Post
Were you required to pay a fee when you submitted the LEGR form?

When I spoke to the woman at the Property Detail dept, she kept asking if my form had the gold seal on it. It doesnt but should it really matter?
Police departments are really weird to deal with. It's almost like talking to someone on meth, they're paranoid about everything. The gold seal is their guarantee that the letter is legitimate, so if you don't have that seal, you may need to call DOJ and have them send you one that the police will accept.

As for the fee, my gun was stolen and recovered by the police, so I didn't have to submit a fee with the LEGR

Last edited by Roadrunner; 05-04-2009 at 9:20 PM..
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Old 05-04-2009, 9:03 PM
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Yes, it sounds like a double Dros when only one is necessary, even to get one's own guns back.

Btw Andrew, your OP was so well written I was briefly encouraged about the future of our youth. That is rare. Thanks!
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Old 05-05-2009, 3:36 PM
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Just spoke to the DOJ. As some of you have already said, I must submit the LEGR form AND a $20 fee. It will most likely be another 2 months until I get my guns back.
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Old 05-05-2009, 3:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewjarvi View Post
Just spoke to the DOJ. As some of you have already said, I must submit the LEGR form AND a $20 fee. It will most likely be another 2 months until I get my guns back.
Look on the bright side, you CAN submit the LEGR, and you CAN get your guns.

I would expect that it will take a month and a few days. If you wait too long (over 30 days), you will have to submit another LEGR and another 20 bucks.
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Old 05-05-2009, 4:20 PM
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Standard operating procedure to get your guns back and is a perfect example of the right hand not talking to the left hand.

My buddy went through the same process to get his guns back from another OC police department and it took him almost 6 months.
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Old 05-05-2009, 8:39 PM
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Wow. This same thing happened to a friend here in Alameda county (LPD). The cops confiscated his guns for something he didn't do and when the judge threw out the case he couldn't get the guns back. After months of running around and a letter from the judge his attorney was able to get them released but not without being verbally demeaned by the desk Sargent. I don't get why these guys can't let go even when the charges are dropped or the case is thrown out.
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Old 05-05-2009, 8:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrClamperSir View Post
Wow. This same thing happened to a friend here in Alameda county (LPD). The cops confiscated his guns for something he didn't do and when the judge threw out the case he couldn't get the guns back. After months of running around and a letter from the judge his attorney was able to get them released but not without being verbally demeaned by the desk Sargent. I don't get why these guys can't let go even when the charges are dropped or the case is thrown out.
"the desk Sargent" perhaps your firend completed his paperwork with your same grasp of the English language...i dont know just guessing. Oh and perhaps "these guys" dont want to give your friend or others like him their guns back becasue they are criminals and therefore shouldnt own them...OJ was cleared too.
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Old 05-06-2009, 6:23 AM
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Originally Posted by 1*mike View Post
"Oh and perhaps "these guys" dont want to give your friend or others like him their guns back becasue they are criminals and therefore shouldnt own them...OJ was cleared too.
Until the court has lawfully convicted the person of a crime, they are not criminals regardless of what YOU or ANY cop might feel. It is the nature of our justice system not to mention that pesky piece of parchment we call the US Constitution that all police officers swear to uphold.

It is not up to a police officer to determine if you are worthy to own a firearm, the case was either brought before a judge/jury and the defendant was found not guilty, or charges weren't even filed by the DA. The case ends there, to withhold a person's private property out of spite is morally reprehensible not to mention illegal.
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Old 05-06-2009, 6:39 AM
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Until the court has lawfully convicted the person of a crime, they are not criminals regardless of what YOU or ANY cop might feel. It is the nature of our justice system not to mention that pesky piece of parchment we call the US Constitution that all police officers swear to uphold.

It is not up to a police officer to determine if you are worthy to own a firearm, the case was either brought before a judge/jury and the defendant was found not guilty, or charges weren't even filed by the DA. The case ends there, to withhold a person's private property out of spite is morally reprehensible not to mention illegal.
is being a drug addict a crime???? Find the section, however a drug addict can not own a firearm. So although one may not be convicted of a crime they may also not be allowed to own a firearm. What if the persons mentioned in the thread were criminal informants (snitches), who "worked off" their cases. SHould they be allowed to own firearms?

Seems like you lack of knowledge of the justice system, and honestly the "real world"
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Old 05-06-2009, 7:10 AM
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I think it is borderline illegal for cops to hold on to LEGALLY owned property!



Then you have to fill out a bunch of forms and pays a FEE to recover your firearms! This is all part of Law Enforcement's ongoing attack on civilian firearms possession.
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Old 05-06-2009, 7:10 AM
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I feel your pain. Several of my firearms were stolen from my apartment while I was deployed in '01. A year later, the Sheriff's Dept. recovered my Sig/Hammerli .22 pistol. It took almost a year for them to transfer it to the Police Dept. (their jurisdiction). After a few hundred calls to the Property Managment Dept. to figure out how to get it back (the folks I spoke to would not/could not tell me what was neccessary for me to claim my pistol or if there was a suspense date for firearm destruction). I finally got fed up and called the Police Chief's office and explained my situation to the Chief's secretary. Believe it or not, she got the ball rolling. The next day the Property Managment Dept. manager called me to explain how to get my pistol back.

Fast forward to 4/09.....The very same Police Dept. sends me a postcard notifying me that one of my other pistols was recovered. Every step I needed to take along with the appropriate phone numbers is on that post card. They put a map of their Property Mgmt. location on the back. It even lets me know that if the gun isn't claimed up before 7/21/09, it'll be destroyed.

Since my property was stolen, DOJ waives the $20 fee. Now I'm just waiting for the DOJ Firearm Eligibility letter (with the official gold seal) so I can pick up my pistol.

Lessons learned:

1) The squeaky wheel gets the grease. It's your stuff and you just want it back.

2) Keep making those phone calls. Ask for a supervisor and tell them your problem. If they don't know the system's broke, they can't fix it.

3) Be persistent (see #1), patient (it's the government -hurry up & wait) and polite (No one likes to hear a rant over the phone, even if you're in the right).

Good Luck!

Jeff

Last edited by arfan66; 05-06-2009 at 7:21 AM.. Reason: shpelling
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Old 05-06-2009, 7:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sniper3142 View Post
I think it is borderline illegal for cops to hold on to LEGALLY owned property!



Then you have to fill out a bunch of forms and pays a FEE to recover your firearms! This is all part of Law Enforcement's ongoing attack on civilian firearms possession.

I understand your frustration. However, the owner may have commited a violent crime/felony since the the firearm was confiscated.That's why they do a background check before the release the gun. I don't think $20 is unreasonable, what's the cheapest DROS fee you've ever paid? My beef is the amount of time it takes to get to your firearm back.

If you read my above post, it CAN get better. We have to keep those folks honest and with the right amount of pressure, it WILL get better

Jeff
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Old 05-06-2009, 8:14 AM
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I have mixed feelings about the process. It is difficult to argue with the idea of a background check before returning guns. But the time it takes is unacceptable. It should be an instant check and/or allow you to pay a shop to run a DROS. The other issue is with LE. They didn't know the laws, lied to me, provided incorrect information, and then tried to convince me to give up my guns.

To the OP: I'm sorry for your situation. I found out that when a person files the LEGR paperwork, they become the "registered" owner of the handgun(s) listed on the paperwork. No other transfer required. One of the handguns on my paperwork was originally purchased by my mom as a give to my dad. That gun is now mine.

As for the turn around time on the LEGR, I was able to call up and talk with the people at the DOJ. I called prior to sending the paperwork, after it was sent to verify they got the it, and again...just to check. I told them I was the victim and I had an shooting event scheduled (I actually signed up for a class...so it was the truth). I received their letter exactly 14 days after mailing it.

If, in the future, someone in the same house gets arrested don't give up your guns. Let them know that you will have the guns out of the house before they can make bail...before they even reach the PD/jail. Even if you live with your parents, you are still an adult and a resident...just the same as if you rent a room from a stranger.

Good luck.

ETA: With my own situation and a relative's situation with a different department, the departments provided notice of xx days before the guns will be destroyed. One was given as 45 days and the other was 90 days. The DOJ is very specific about 120 days. They will actually contact/notify the department of this error....I tried to use it as reason they need to complete the LEGR sooner. Also, once you notify them that you are working with the DOJ the clock should stop. The DOJ advised us to keep in contact with the property clerk and/or the person responsible for scheduling destruction of the weapons.

Last edited by Curtis; 05-06-2009 at 8:21 AM..
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Old 05-06-2009, 10:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1*mike View Post
"the desk Sargent" perhaps your firend completed his paperwork with your same grasp of the English language...i dont know just guessing. Oh and perhaps "these guys" dont want to give your friend or others like him their guns back becasue they are criminals and therefore shouldnt own them...OJ was cleared too.
So what department do you work for officer?

I certainly hope that you are not the standard for your job field and hope you learn the meaning of "innocent until proven guilty" before you get yourself into some seriously hot water legally or otherwise.
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Old 05-06-2009, 12:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1*mike View Post
"the desk Sargent" perhaps your firend completed his paperwork with your same grasp of the English language...i dont know just guessing. Oh and perhaps "these guys" dont want to give your friend or others like him their guns back becasue they are criminals and therefore shouldnt own them...OJ was cleared too.
Wow what rock did you crawl out from under. I guess in your world instead of "innocent until proven guilty" it's "your guilty because I say your guilty".

Good Lord please do the world a favor and crawl back under.
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Old 05-06-2009, 1:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1*mike View Post
is being a drug addict a crime???? Find the section, however a drug addict can not own a firearm. So although one may not be convicted of a crime they may also not be allowed to own a firearm. What if the persons mentioned in the thread were criminal informants (snitches), who "worked off" their cases. SHould they be allowed to own firearms?

Seems like you lack of knowledge of the justice system, and honestly the "real world"
Define "drug addict". Should a smoker be barred from owning firearms? How about the guy picking up his latte every day? What about the guy who smokes medical marijuana? What about the guy who smokes the occasional joint? To be a truly prohibited person there must be evidence of drug addiction, not just your bias against the person.

Seems to me you lack real world knowledge of our system of government where people have the presumption of innocence until proved guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. If you arrest and prefer BS charges against me because you were wrong or based on your faulty knowledge of the law, why does that mean the citizen needs to suffer? With the OP's situation (even if he HAD committed a crime), there was insufficient evidence to convict, otherwise he would have been. If you cannot prove the crime, you cannot punish.

If you are a police officer you certainly do scare me and should scare any law abiding citizen. I suppose in your world the police ought to be allowed to go around and bust some heads "because they needed it"? It is not the place of the police officer to punish, it is not the place of the officer to determine guilt. That is for the judge and jury system.

OJ should have been convicted, LAPD and LADA screwed the pooch there. Of course almost any other defendent would have a permanent abode in the San Quentin death house with the same evidence. But the fact is, he was acquitted and was entitled to all the rights and privelidges accorded a person aquitted of a crime. I can call OJ a murdering SOB, but the government cannot treat him as a murdering SOB. Frankly it is one of the things that sets this country apart from most of the world.
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Old 05-06-2009, 1:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arfan66 View Post
I understand your frustration. However, the owner may have commited a violent crime/felony since the the firearm was confiscated.That's why they do a background check before the release the gun. I don't think $20 is unreasonable, what's the cheapest DROS fee you've ever paid? My beef is the amount of time it takes to get to your firearm back.

If you read my above post, it CAN get better. We have to keep those folks honest and with the right amount of pressure, it WILL get better

Jeff
They could do like most of the world does, run and instant NICS check and cut your legally owned stuff loose right then and there. That is how most guns are transferred where people running the show don't have their heads up their behinds and don't pretend to know what everybody needs more than they do themselves.

All of the rules for handling firearms, even including the stupid california LEGR ones, are right in the PC. Everybody in the police station that is involved with evidence and property is being paid a decent wage to do their job, just like everyone else with a job. If they can't read and follow the rules, they should be given a different job, maybe janitor or something like that, because they are being paid to know and do THEIR JOB! Passing crap around from detective to detective or other officer's is either blatant job derilection or the result of illegal department policy and procedure. We shouldn't have to "keep them honest", they are the ones that have sworn to do that themselves! The truth is that most LE agencies have become tools of very left, anti civilian gun ownership, politicans. Even given the benefit of the leftist, anti-civilian gun ownership BS laws that they have in their favor, toleration of illegal acts under the color of authority is not acceptable.
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Old 05-06-2009, 1:31 PM
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Invoice the PD for the value of the guns...
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Old 05-06-2009, 1:49 PM
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Originally Posted by 1*mike View Post
"the desk Sargent" perhaps your firend completed his paperwork with your same grasp of the English language...i dont know just guessing. Oh and perhaps "these guys" dont want to give your friend or others like him their guns back becasue they are criminals and therefore shouldnt own them...OJ was cleared too.
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Old 05-06-2009, 2:02 PM
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Originally Posted by 1*mike View Post
"the desk Sargent" perhaps your firend completed his paperwork with your same grasp of the English language...i dont know just guessing. Oh and perhaps "these guys" dont want to give your friend or others like him their guns back becasue they are criminals and therefore shouldnt own them...OJ was cleared too.
Wow.

Based on your poor use of Grammer, I might think you lack a basic understanding of many things. Please note that the letter "I" should be Capitalized when used alone in a sentence.



I really hope you aren't a cop. That job is tough. It's tougher if you're stupid.

(Please excuse the sentence fragments above).

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  #31  
Old 05-06-2009, 3:19 PM
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I got the LEGR form and the fee in the mail today. Now its time to play the waiting game... again.

I just hope all the officers keep their mits off my guns. Ive heard stories of some LEO's playing with someone's toys while they were being held.
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Old 05-06-2009, 3:44 PM
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Originally Posted by andrewjarvi View Post
I got the LEGR form and the fee in the mail today. Now its time to play the waiting game... again.

I just hope all the officers keep their mits off my guns. Ive heard stories of some LEO's playing with someone's toys while they were being held.
That is not the half of it!

One of my best friends had his guns taken from him and when he finally got them back they had tape stuck to all of them and the tape pulled the finish off of 2 high dollar shotguns not to mention all the scrapes and dings from being shoved into a plastic garbage can with other long arms.
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Old 05-06-2009, 6:09 PM
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Originally Posted by andrewjarvi View Post
I got the LEGR form and the fee in the mail today. Now its time to play the waiting game... again.

I just hope all the officers keep their mits off my guns. Ive heard stories of some LEO's playing with someone's toys while they were being held.
ive heard stories...check. Ill buy the post about tape and dings but guys checking out guns and shooting them, NO WAY. Unless they had a warrant and were test firing them for the crime lab.
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  #34  
Old 05-06-2009, 6:38 PM
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Originally Posted by 1*mike View Post
"the desk Sargent" perhaps your firend completed his paperwork with your same grasp of the English language...i dont know just guessing. Oh and perhaps "these guys" dont want to give your friend or others like him their guns back becasue they are criminals and therefore shouldnt own them...OJ was cleared too.
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Old 05-06-2009, 6:49 PM
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.....IBTK.......Here it comes!!!
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  #36  
Old 05-06-2009, 6:51 PM
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You want to ban me for my opinion. You cant handle someone else's point of view? If a dissenting opinion is so hard for you to read, move to China. Believe what you want, but I have seen cases of people who should not have their guns released back to them. Believe what you want about me, I don’t care. But I would hope you support the constitutional right to freedom on speech, not just freedom to bare arms.
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Old 05-06-2009, 6:53 PM
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talk is cheap!
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Old 05-06-2009, 7:25 PM
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Originally Posted by 1*mike View Post
You want to ban me for my opinion. You cant handle someone else's point of view? If a dissenting opinion is so hard for you to read, move to China. Believe what you want, but I have seen cases of people who should not have their guns released back to them. Believe what you want about me, I don’t care. But I would hope you support the constitutional right to freedom on speech, not just freedom to bare arms.
I don't have a problem with you having an opinion. I do find it appalling that you would come on this website and make a total idiot of yourself. When one reads your posts any regard for your opinions, ideas, etc. go down the drain along with any respect that you 'might' have garnered in the past. You are sorely lacking in vocabulary, grammar, and spelling.

When you finish grade school come on back and take another shot at it.
Rio
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  #39  
Old 05-06-2009, 7:28 PM
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Seriously everyone, shut up. I do not want this thread locked. Finish this skirmish elsewhere.
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  #40  
Old 05-06-2009, 8:10 PM
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Quote:
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But I would hope you support the constitutional right to freedom on speech, not just freedom to bare arms.
Wow.

Are you actually an LEO or just an imposter?
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