COE + FFL03

[fifer55]

Hello and quick question:

-March 22 submitted my COE via CFARS
-March 23 sent in my FFL03 application to ATF and courtesy copy of my intention to CLEO (LAPD)
-March 30 ATF charges my card $30 for the FFL03
-April 23 email received from CFARS to submit my FFL03 NUMBER (application status: Incomplete)
*-April 24 submitted email to CA DOJ on the reason WHY I wanted a COE *
**-May 6 email received from CFARS to VERIFY my information, click "FINAL" submit (application status: In Progress)**
***-May 10 received, COE APPROVED for 1 year***

The email I got from CFARS is the following:

From: coe@doj.ca.gov

To:XXXXXX@GMAIL.COM

Subject: California Firearms Application Reporting System (CFARS) Incomplete Notice

MY NAME
MY STREET
LOS ANGELES CA MY ZIP

The California Department of Justice has received your electronic Certification of Eligibility (COE) application; however, it cannot be processed for the following reason(s):
Please provide your Federal Firearms License (FFL) Type 03 Collector of Curios and Relics FFL Number via email to the COE Unit at: COE@doj.ca.gov . If you do not have an FFL-03, please indicate the reason for wanting a COE in the email.

The information requested should be submitted by logging into the CFARS application https://cfars.doj.ca.gov and navigating to Certificate of Eligibility and selecting "COE Transaction History". If you have any questions, please use the Report an Issue feature in the CFARS application.

Now, since this is the first time I am doing this, do I just wait for the FFL03 license to be delivered? I assume yes, but I want to make sure there is no time limit on this request. Once delivered (I will have my FFL03 number), then I respond to CFARS request?

Any help would be appreciated!

*UPDATE
**UPDATE v2
*** UPDATE v3

[nbk992h]

I gave them mine on renewal applications...but they did not ask for it 4 years ago when I first applied for my COE....

There has been posts in other threads about if they have the legal right to ask you for it.....my take is that you could tell them you applied for it and your waiting to get it, or you could read these other posts (they are in related forums or might be in this one...just do a quick search) where some members have posted their reason for why it is not necessary to give it to the CA DOJ or asking them to cite the code or law that allows them to require you tell them. From what I have read, these members still got their COE issued to them without providing their 03 FFL number. However, I do believe they already had their 03 FFL number in hand.

I am sure others will chime in as to what you should do or recommend what you should do, but ultimately you will need to decide what you think is best and go with that.

I hope that helps....sorry if it's not a clear cut answer...but given how some have done one thing and some have done another, I wanted to give you options so you could make an informed decision

[fifer55]

OK thanks, just did this.

https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/...0#post25843390

To whom it may concern,

I am submitting an FFL03 application for collecting C&R, for the first time.

This is the reason for wanting a CA DOJ Certificate Of Eligibility.

Thanks and if anything else is needed, please let me know.

Mike

Let's see how it goes!

Originally Posted by nbk992h

I gave them mine on renewal applications...but they did not ask for it 4 years ago when I first applied for my COE....

There has been posts in other threads about if they have the legal right to ask you for it.....my take is that you could tell them you applied for it and your waiting to get it, or you could read these other posts (they are in related forums or might be in this one...just do a quick search) where some members have posted their reason for why it is not necessary to give it to the CA DOJ or asking them to cite the code or law that allows them to require you tell them. From what I have read, these members still got their COE issued to them without providing their 03 FFL number. However, I do believe they already had their 03 FFL number in hand.

I am sure others will chime in as to what you should do or recommend what you should do, but ultimately you will need to decide what you think is best and go with that.

I hope that helps....sorry if it's not a clear cut answer...but given how some have done one thing and some have done another, I wanted to give you options so you could make an informed decision

[nbk992h]

Hopefully you get a response or ur COE issued soon

[menikmati]

I began my COE application on 3/8/22 and also received the same email requesting my 03 FFL number. I told them that my application was in process and then received my COE 5 days later.

Timeline:

3/8/22 - Applied for COE
4/16/22 - Incomplete notice
4/21/22 - COE issued

[nbk992h]

Glad to hear....with the CA DOJ, give them clear answers and it's no guarantee you will get your COE quickly....but I am sure it helps.

[Regla]

Hi,

I just did my COE application and did the CFARS. What do i do next? Apply for FFL03 correct? which forms do i need to fill out? is is just the Part B? and do i have to mail it via mail or email?

Thanks in advance!

[nbk992h]

U can download the FFL application on the ATF website ....search on Google and thr link should come up. I believe u can fill it out online, print it, and sign it. Just make sure To read and follow the instructions carefully and fill out the information that is required specifically for the 03FFL application, as some is only required for other types of FFLs. You have to mail one copy to the ATF and give or mail the other to your CLEO ( Is either chief of police or sheriff depending if ur city is incorporated or has a police department). I recommend paying by money order, and using some sort of usps tracking service.

[sfe187]

snail mail w/tracking so I can document when they received but that's me, others just put a stamp on it.

[nbk992h]

I agree with getting tracking....considering that with just a stamp u never know if they get it or when...ur hoping it gets there.... I want to know it got there and when. Likewise, by using a money order from say the post office, I can see if and when it's been cashed, and I can take care of all of it at the post office once I've filled out and signed my application. Yes it cost extra...and I used priority mail, but maybe (I can't say for certain) it got processed faster, as I got it pretty fast considering how long some things take nowadays for licensing renewals (my 03FFL renewal came in about 4 weeks). All I know for sure is it got there and when it did, when they cashed my money order, but that piece of mind certainly is nice when ur waiting for something as important as this.

[Regla]

Thanks for the input guys.
Quick question though. do i have to have business or some sort of business with EIN to apply just for ffl03?

[ronlglock]

Originally Posted by Regla

Thanks for the input guys.
Quick question though. do i have to have business or some sort of business with EIN to apply just for ffl03?

Nope. In fact, FFL03 explicitly states that you cannot be in the business of buying and selling firearms — strictly adding to your personal collection.

[Regla]

Originally Posted by ronlglock

Nope. In fact, FFL03 explicitly states that you cannot be in the business of buying and selling firearms — strictly adding to your personal collection.

I see, so I’m guessing that I’ll leave those blank and on the part where it says licensee name, I just put my name in even though it’s not a business?

[ronlglock]

Originally Posted by Regla

I see, so I’m guessing that I’ll leave those blank and on the part where it says licensee name, I just put my name in even though it’s not a business?

You are the licensee.

[nbk992h]

Yes you are the licensee as a Collector...not in the capacity of a business. The purpose of the 03FFL is to aquire C&R firearms for ur personal collection with "occasional" sales permitted. If you ever have to meet with the ATF, they will look at ur records (i.e. usually a bound book) where u keep a record of ur acquisitions and dispositions (purchases and sales). If they see alot of buying and then selling, ull probably have an issue with them....as in that case you should have applied for an 01 or 07 FFL which is for business. Not to say you can't ever sell any of the C&R guns u would aquire, but to keep in mind what "occasional" means.

Hope that helps

[faris1984]

Can someone plz tell ne what the purpose of getting coe and ffl 03?

[fifer55]

UPDATE

05/06/2022 received an email from CA DOJ stating:

Hello,

Thank you for contacting the Certificate of Eligibility (COE) Unit. Your FFL-03 clarification was received. However, your COE application status is currently: Incomplete. For your application to progress, please follow the step-by-step instructions below to successfully re-submit your existing application.

It is best to use Chrome as your Internet browser.
1) Clear out your browser’s history and cache before you begin.
2) Log into your CFARS account at https://cfars.doj.ca.gov/login.do
3) Select Certificate of Eligibility (COE) on the left-hand side of the screen.
4) Navigate to your existing application.
5) Verify the required Driver License/Identification Card/Supporting Documents are attached to your application.
6) Click the “Preview” button at the bottom of the application. Please review your application to ensure all inputted details are correct.
7) Please read the perjury statement. If you agree, please mark the “Agree” box.
8) Press the “Submit Final” button, also located at the bottom of the application.

If you experience issues with re-submitting your COE application, inform us via email at COE@doj.ca.gov . Thank you!

Best regards,
Operator #XXX
Bureau of Firearms
Certificate of Eligibility Unit

So now this. I will update my first post for tldr but I did EXACTLY what the email said, and now my progress again is in "IN PROGRESS" again.

Crossing fingers

[sfe187]

Originally Posted by faris1984

Can someone plz tell ne what the purpose of getting coe and ffl 03?

Exemptions for a CA resident with a valid C&R 03-FFL:
1. Importing a C&R firearm that they physically acquire while outside of CA without needing to utilize a CA FFL dealer. [PC 27585(b)(1) & 27565]

Exemptions for a CA resident with a valid C&R 03-FFL and valid COE:
1. No 10 day waiting period when acquiring a C&R firearm from a CA FFL dealer. [PC 27670]
2. No 1 in 30 day wait on handguns or semiautomatic centerfire rifles. [PC 27535(b)(9)]
3. Can be used as proof of CA residency. [PC 26845(b) & 11 CCR 4045 d.1.]
4. When acquiring C&R firearms, it is an exemption to needing a valid Firearm Safety Certificate. [PC 31700(a)(6)]
5. When acquiring C&R firearms, it is an exemption to needing to do a safe handling demonstration. [PC 26850(h) & 26860(g)]
6. Acquiring a C&R long gun from a non-FFL inside of CA without needing to utilize a CA FFL dealer. [PC 27966]
7. Acquiring ammunition from a person within CA without needing to utilize a CA DOJ licensed ammunition vendor. [PC 30312(c)(6)]
8. Either online or in person, importing ammunition acquired out-of-state without needing to utilize a CA DOJ licensed ammunition vendor. [PC 30312(c)(6) & 30314(b)(5)]

[1911su16b870]

Originally Posted by sfe187

Exemptions for a CA resident with a valid C&R 03-FFL:
1. Importing a C&R firearm that they physically acquire while outside of CA without needing to utilize a CA FFL dealer. [PC 27585(b)(1) & 27565]

Exemptions for a CA resident with a valid C&R 03-FFL and valid COE:
1. No 10 day waiting period when acquiring a C&R firearm from a CA FFL dealer. [PC 27670]
2. No 1 in 30 day wait on handguns or semiautomatic centerfire rifles. [PC 27535(b)(9)]
3. Can be used as proof of CA residency. [PC 26845(b) & 11 CCR 4045 d.1.]
4. When acquiring C&R firearms, it is an exemption to needing a valid Firearm Safety Certificate. [PC 31700(a)(6)]
5. When acquiring C&R firearms, it is an exemption to needing to do a safe handling demonstration. [PC 26850(h) & 26860(g)]
6. Acquiring a C&R long gun from a non-FFL inside of CA without needing to utilize a CA FFL dealer. [PC 27966]
7. Acquiring ammunition from a person within CA without needing to utilize a CA DOJ licensed ammunition vendor. [PC 30312(c)(6)]
8. Either online or in person, importing ammunition acquired out-of-state without needing to utilize a CA DOJ licensed ammunition vendor. [PC 30312(c)(6) & 30314(b)(5)]

Excellent post...

FWIW...CFARS asked for my 03FFL # and the next day issued my new CoE the next day.

[sfe187]

Originally Posted by 1911su16b870

Excellent post...

Credit Mod Quiet he made it. I saved it in my gun notes file. Sometime its helpful letting some FFL know about these exemptions and they can look up the PCs to verify.

[nbk992h]

Originally Posted by faris1984

Can someone plz tell ne what the purpose of getting coe and ffl 03?

Makes your life a lot easier in terms of what you can do legally here in CA.



Some places do not honor (say its not legal for things that are clearly spelled out as legal to do so in the CA Penal Code) or say they do and then turn around after the fact and do not (happened to me....cost me the extra $$$ in 2nd background check fee and wasted 30 more days waiting). Either way....I DO NOT give theses places my business as I would rather do business with places that do even if they cost a little bit more.

I know some hate Turner's, but when they have had some good deals in the past on pistols, I had no problem with the 1 in 30 day handgun (and now semi auto long guns) exemption for FFL/COE when I when to different Turner's locations. Someone who knew what they were doing did them at each location, and after 10 days, picked them all up no problem. Same with Sportsman's Warehouse.....never a problem. Anyplace will need to see your FFL (original copy)/COE, but I gave it to them to make a copy for their records, and never have ever had any problems with places that accept it AND know how to do it properly.


Also, I sometimes have shown them a print out from the CA website that has the Penal Code with the section on it or the CA DOJ website that has it, which shows things like 1 in 30 exemption for handguns, etc. as some do not know about the changes or what is in the CA Penal Code. Either way, do not get belligerent if someone or place does not understand. Just decide if after the fact, they will not honor the exemption, if you wish to still do business there or not.


My advice is to make sure the person entering the exemption does so properly in the DROS system BEFORE he or she submits it. That way it goes through (assuming you will pass your background check, which you should), and you can go pick up 10 to 30 days later with no issues. I am not saying you should or should not, as ultimately it is YOUR decision as to what you wish to do.

[fifer55]

UPDATE

I just got an email to check the status for my CA DOJ COE.

Checked the CFARS, got my COE!

Thanks everyone for all your help and suggestions!

Originally Posted by fifer55

UPDATE

05/06/2022 received an email from CA DOJ stating:


So now this. I will update my first post for tldr but I did EXACTLY what the email said, and now my progress again is in "IN PROGRESS" again.

Crossing fingers

[CalifEd]

Good for you.
I predict that you will soon need a new, bigger safe.

[faris1984]

Originally Posted by sfe187

Exemptions for a CA resident with a valid C&R 03-FFL:
1. Importing a C&R firearm that they physically acquire while outside of CA without needing to utilize a CA FFL dealer. [PC 27585(b)(1) & 27565]

Exemptions for a CA resident with a valid C&R 03-FFL and valid COE:
1. No 10 day waiting period when acquiring a C&R firearm from a CA FFL dealer. [PC 27670]
2. No 1 in 30 day wait on handguns or semiautomatic centerfire rifles. [PC 27535(b)(9)]
3. Can be used as proof of CA residency. [PC 26845(b) & 11 CCR 4045 d.1.]
4. When acquiring C&R firearms, it is an exemption to needing a valid Firearm Safety Certificate. [PC 31700(a)(6)]
5. When acquiring C&R firearms, it is an exemption to needing to do a safe handling demonstration. [PC 26850(h) & 26860(g)]
6. Acquiring a C&R long gun from a non-FFL inside of CA without needing to utilize a CA FFL dealer. [PC 27966]
7. Acquiring ammunition from a person within CA without needing to utilize a CA DOJ licensed ammunition vendor. [PC 30312(c)(6)]
8. Either online or in person, importing ammunition acquired out-of-state without needing to utilize a CA DOJ licensed ammunition vendor. [PC 30312(c)(6) & 30314(b)(5)]

Thanks, you are great.

[menikmati]

Originally Posted by fifer55

UPDATE

I just got an email to check the status for my CA DOJ COE.

Checked the CFARS, got my COE!

Thanks everyone for all your help and suggestions!

Congratulations.

Based on my recent FFL03/COE experience, your timeline matches up similarly with mine. If that remains the case with your FFL03 application, I expect it should arrive for you in about 2 weeks.

[pewanon]

for the ffl application, i am in business for myself but i am applying to be a collector (ffl03)

should i list my business? i'm just a sole prop

edit: i think i figured that part out, but here in san diego, would i be mailing a copy to the san diego sheriff??

[SilveradoColt21]

Originally Posted by pewanon

for the ffl application, i am in business for myself but i am applying to be a collector (ffl03)

should i list my business? i'm just a sole prop

edit: i think i figured that part out, but here in san diego, would i be mailing a copy to the san diego sheriff??

I mailed mine to the Chief of Police in my city, not sure who the CLEO is in San Diego but I would assume that it's just whoever is the Chief of Police in SD

[SilveradoColt21]

Originally Posted by Dkeshish

That copy is meant more of a courtesy/formality to let the local dept know of your intentions. It has no bearing with the atf. If I am not correct please correct me guys

You are correct sir, that is all that is meant for.

[pewanon]

understood, i'm sending a copy to the county sheriff, anthony ray

mailed off ffl03 app to atf and sheriff dropped off today 5/19/22

completed livescan and submitted COE online 5/19/22

alright let's go!

[SilveradoColt21]

Originally Posted by pewanon

understood, i'm sending a copy to the county sheriff, anthony ray

mailed off ffl03 app to atf and sheriff dropped off today 5/19/22

completed livescan and submitted COE online 5/19/22

alright let's go!

Good luck! I am waiting as well, I hear it takes about 30-40 days to get your COE.

[Capybara]

Don't forget to log in to your CFARs account at least monthly as it has a habit of forgetting and or resetting your password if you don't. If you lose your password or it changes on you, it can be months to try to get even an automated response, much less communicate with a human with BOF. No access to your CFARs account, no renewal on time and then you go back down the expensive 40 day rabbit hole of a new COE. Also, I learned that if you held a COE at least within the past decade, you already have a CFARs account and ID. And they won't tell you what it is. My last one expired before CFARs existed so I started a new account. BOF let me know that I already had an account, even though I never started one but they somehow transferred my info from my old COE that I did through the mail and they would not let me start a new CFARs account. After days of detective work, I finally figured out my old COE account number, which was all under my old address so I had to "convert" my old mail-in COE account in CFARs, cancel the "new" account, it was a nightmare and took weeks.

So the take away is, if you have ever held a COE, even many years ago, and haven't renewed for years, you already have an account on CFARs, you just never knew it, unless you started it after CFARs existed. Dealing with them to try to get all of this ironed out was a multi-week nightmare.

[SilveradoColt21]

Originally Posted by Capybara

Don't forget to log in to your CFARs account at least monthly as it has a habit of forgetting and or resetting your password if you don't. If you lose your password or it changes on you, it can be months to try to get even an automated response, much less communicate with a human with BOF. No access to your CFARs account, no renewal on time and then you go back down the expensive 40 day rabbit hole of a new COE. Also, I learned that if you held a COE at least within the past decade, you already have a CFARs account and ID. And they won't tell you what it is. My last one expired before CFARs existed so I started a new account. BOF let me know that I already had an account, even though I never started one but they somehow transferred my info from my old COE that I did through the mail and they would not let me start a new CFARs account. After days of detective work, I finally figured out my old COE account number, which was all under my old address so I had to "convert" my old mail-in COE account in CFARs, cancel the "new" account, it was a nightmare and took weeks.

So the take away is, if you have ever held a COE, even many years ago, and haven't renewed for years, you already have an account on CFARs, you just never knew it, unless you started it after CFARs existed. Dealing with them to try to get all of this ironed out was a multi-week nightmare.

Good thing I log in every day to check my COE progress however I am sure that will change when I successfully get it.

[Capybara]

Originally Posted by SilveradoColt21

Good thing I log in every day to check my COE progress however I am sure that will change when I successfully get it.

Put a reminder on your calendar to log in to CFARs at least once a month or bad, inconvenient and frustrating things will happen when your renewal time comes up. It's stupid and ridiculous that we have to do that but remember, the CADOJ and BOF have a mandate to make owning guns legally as excruciatingly painful and humiliating as possible to weed out the casual gun owner from the process.

Only us hardcore and stubborn gun owners will counter their gotchas and traps with doing things like logging in monthly, even though we shouldn't have to. When I was going through this early this year, my emails to them didn't even get an auto response until 2-4 months later and it was a just a bot. Basically, you have to go through the whole thing by yourself and a little help from Calguns. The BOF isn't going to lift a finger to even communicate with you.

[-hanko]

Originally Posted by faris1984

Can someone plz tell ne what the purpose of getting coe and ffl 03?

Read the post just before yours.

[Regla]

I got an email from CFARS stating that my application is incomplete and to send the reason why I want a COE and to send my ffl03. Sent the requested reason the next day and I still havnt received any update.

[Regla]

Finally got my FFL03 and COE. Once i got my FFL03, I sent emailed my license number to cfars and got it the same day

[3S16]

Thank You for the tip on logging into CFARS monthly Capybara. I just went through the hassle of having to reset my password. I'm a new COE/FFL03 recipient. I thought my password was permanent. I had no idea my password was a "use it or lose it" proposition.
Consider my calendar reminded!

[Capybara]

Originally Posted by 3S16

Thank You for the tip on logging into CFARS monthly Capybara. I just went through the hassle of having to reset my password. I'm a new COE/FFL03 recipient. I thought my password was permanent. I had no idea my password was a "use it or lose it" proposition.
Consider my calendar reminded!

Hoops we have to jump through or we are punished.

[sfhondapilot]

Originally Posted by Capybara

Put a reminder on your calendar to log in to CFARs at least once a month or bad, inconvenient and frustrating things will happen when your renewal time comes up.

In the CFARS user manual, section 3.7 (page 14 of 59) it states that passwords for CFARS accounts are set to expire every 90 days.

[Capybara]

Originally Posted by sfhondapilot

In the CFARS user manual, section 3.7 (page 14 of 59) it states that passwords for CFARS accounts are set to expire every 90 days.

I even read that whole monstrosity but that line slipped out of my memory. So I guess log in every 2.5 months.