Calguns.net  

Home My iTrader Join the NRA Donate to CGSSA Sponsors CGN Google Search
CA Semiauto Ban(AW)ID Flowchart CA Handgun Ban ID Flowchart CA Shotgun Ban ID Flowchart
Go Back   Calguns.net > GENERAL DISCUSSION > General gun discussions
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

General gun discussions This is a place to lounge and discuss firearm related topics with other forum members.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 03-10-2009, 1:13 AM
brian01tj's Avatar
brian01tj brian01tj is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Riverside
Posts: 470
iTrader: 6 / 100%
Default AK's used in crime statistics

Ok, so a guy at Turners (obviously a reputable source, lol) stated that "only one legally registered AK-47 has ever been used to commit a crime and that it was by a police officer"

Can anybody put some truth to this? I can see if maybe it was the only murder done by the actual legal/registered owner. But first, crime is such a general term and plus I don't see how it could have been the first legally registered AK used in a murder whether by the owner or by someone who stole the gun.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 03-10-2009, 1:27 AM
audihenry audihenry is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Valley Village, CA
Posts: 2,924
iTrader: 25 / 100%
Default

What about the NoHo shooters? IIRC, they were legal semi-autos converted illegally to full auto.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 03-10-2009, 9:30 AM
Dr Rockso's Avatar
Dr Rockso Dr Rockso is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: San Jose
Posts: 3,700
iTrader: 6 / 100%
Default

I think he probably meant a registered NFA full auto.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 03-10-2009, 12:24 PM
Josh3239's Avatar
Josh3239 Josh3239 is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: SoCal
Posts: 9,066
iTrader: 55 / 100%
Default

I doubt the NoHo shooters AKs were registered, I doubt they even bought them legally. Matasaraneu possibly could have, but I think both of them were felons before that big robbery.

I asked Bill about that on AR15.com and he told me that a permit for an NFA AK even for police officers is "unobtanium".
__________________
Proud NRA Life Member As Of 2016


"The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism, but under the name of liberalism they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program until one day America will be a socialist nation without ever knowing how it happened." Norman Thomas, American socialist
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 03-10-2009, 1:27 PM
tsname tsname is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 134
iTrader: 6 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh3239 View Post
I doubt the NoHo shooters AKs were registered, I doubt they even bought them legally.
+1

They're criminals. Do you think they're going to obtain all of their weapons legally? Do any criminals obtain any of their weapons legally? I'll leave that as a rhetorical question.
__________________
The maximum effective range of an excuse is zero meters.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffM View Post
For every AR that folks plan to use for SHTF, they should have a spare AK in their toolbox.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 03-10-2009, 2:49 PM
audihenry audihenry is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Valley Village, CA
Posts: 2,924
iTrader: 25 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsname View Post
+1

They're criminals. Do you think they're going to obtain all of their weapons legally? Do any criminals obtain any of their weapons legally? I'll leave that as a rhetorical question.
Care to back it up? The fact that the weapons were semi before being converted strongly suggests they were legally acquired. If you were to go into the black market, you'd get full auto to begin with.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 03-10-2009, 3:00 PM
tsname tsname is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 134
iTrader: 6 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by audihenry View Post
Care to back it up? The fact that the weapons were semi before being converted strongly suggests they were legally acquired. If you were to go into the black market, you'd get full auto to begin with.
Well, you've proven me wrong about that, I misread some of the earlier posts.

Going back to the OP, Turner's really isn't a great source of any information. Hell, not even gun shows from what I've overheard the last two times I've gone.
__________________
The maximum effective range of an excuse is zero meters.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffM View Post
For every AR that folks plan to use for SHTF, they should have a spare AK in their toolbox.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 03-10-2009, 3:15 PM
Casual Observer Casual Observer is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,400
iTrader: 3 / 100%
Default

IIRC, only two crimes have ever been committed with registered NFA weapons since 1934- one of which was committed by a peace officer.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 03-10-2009, 3:19 PM
Dalton's Avatar
Dalton Dalton is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Menifee, CA
Posts: 95
iTrader: 3 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Casual Observer View Post
IIRC, only two crimes have ever been committed with registered NFA weapons since 1934- one of which was committed by a peace officer.
+1 to that.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 03-10-2009, 4:58 PM
B Strong B Strong is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: S.F. Bay Area.
Posts: 6,370
iTrader: 14 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by brian01tj View Post
Ok, so a guy at Turners (obviously a reputable source, lol) stated that "only one legally registered AK-47 has ever been used to commit a crime and that it was by a police officer"
Can anybody put some truth to this? I can see if maybe it was the only murder done by the actual legal/registered owner. But first, crime is such a general term and plus I don't see how it could have been the first legally registered AK used in a murder whether by the owner or by someone who stole the gun.
It wasn't an AK, it was an M11/9.

http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs.cmu.edu...y_v_dayton.txt

Edit - if you define crime as possession of a weapon, there have been instances where a registered NFA weapon or device was involved in a crime that didn't involve the use of the weapon in question. The one that comes to mind immediately is the individual who was being investigated for domestic violence. When contacted by the LEO's he had his (model and type escapes me) registered MG loaded and concealed under a blanket in the bedroom where he was found by the LEO's.

He was convicted on DV charges, but I'm unaware of what happened with the weapons charge.

Last edited by B Strong; 03-10-2009 at 5:02 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 03-10-2009, 5:02 PM
AlexBreya AlexBreya is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: California
Posts: 955
iTrader: 3 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by audihenry View Post
Care to back it up? The fact that the weapons were semi before being converted strongly suggests they were legally acquired. If you were to go into the black market, you'd get full auto to begin with.
were they maybe stolen from someone? if they can't get it in the black market, they may have just stolen it.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 03-10-2009, 5:10 PM
B Strong B Strong is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: S.F. Bay Area.
Posts: 6,370
iTrader: 14 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by audihenry View Post
Care to back it up? The fact that the weapons were semi before being converted strongly suggests they were legally acquired. If you were to go into the black market, you'd get full auto to begin with.

I'll go farther than that.

IIRC, the two actors in the noho shootout had an earlier contact with LE where they were found to be in possession of AK's that were confiscated and later returned by LE due to the fact that the AK's in question were not on the banned list in effect at that time. The actors were not in the prohibited class, so the rifles went back to the badguys.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 03-10-2009, 5:10 PM
Jonathan Doe
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
iTrader: / %
Default

The most common rifles iused in crime are SKS types and AK types. Most common rifle caliber used in crime are 7.62X39mm rounds. There are some AR types used in crime, but it occurrs less frequently.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 03-10-2009, 5:12 PM
stormy_clothing stormy_clothing is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: before taxes
Posts: 2,827
iTrader: 49 / 100%
Default

who cares anyway, a gun is a gun is a gun. AK47 doesnt mean its any worse or better.

It's probably because a real ak is too expensive, I'm sure ak "like" ect those numbers are higher same as any other gun.

Quote:
Originally Posted by audihenry View Post
Care to back it up? The fact that the weapons were semi before being converted strongly suggests they were legally acquired. If you were to go into the black market, you'd get full auto to begin with.
Automatic weapons are more expensive to buy, converted ones less so I'm sure the black market whatever form that is the same applies. Heavy barrels and buffers and firing pins and selector switches and bolt carriers are all different in original weapons but not necessarily in conveted ones. In 1994 these weapons were not coming into the country like they are today it seems. One glance at the daily AFN reports shows truckloads of these weapons along with american currency. I guess Mac 10's and Uzi's maybe but not ak's

The weird thing about auto ak's seems to be that they really are coming from Mexico in large quantities, I only say this because I bought a cal legal one for my dad for his birthday last year and every single Mexican I know who has family there has told me they either have shot or know someone in there family that owns one full auto.

Last edited by stormy_clothing; 03-10-2009 at 5:23 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 03-10-2009, 5:12 PM
CSACANNONEER's Avatar
CSACANNONEER CSACANNONEER is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Thousand Oaks
Posts: 43,045
iTrader: 130 / 100%
Blog Entries: 4
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by audihenry View Post
Care to back it up? The fact that the weapons were semi before being converted strongly suggests they were legally acquired. If you were to go into the black market, you'd get full auto to begin with.
Really? I would bet that they were not puchased legally. Instead, they were probably purchased on the black market, converted to FA and then, sold to the thugs that used them. But, what do I know? They also could have gone through an illegal arms broker or two along the way, as well.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 03-10-2009, 5:42 PM
audihenry audihenry is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Valley Village, CA
Posts: 2,924
iTrader: 25 / 100%
Default

The point is no one on this thread has any solid evidence backed up by fact. Which is a shame as it makes for good FUD for the anti-gun crowd.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 03-10-2009, 5:57 PM
Jonathan Doe
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
iTrader: / %
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by audihenry View Post
The point is no one on this thread has any solid evidence backed up by fact. Which is a shame as it makes for good FUD for the anti-gun crowd.
What is the evidence you are looking for?
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 03-10-2009, 6:43 PM
audihenry audihenry is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Valley Village, CA
Posts: 2,924
iTrader: 25 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by topgun7 View Post
What is the evidence you are looking for?
Actual documents, real statistics, not I heard this and she said that.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 03-10-2009, 6:56 PM
tcrpe's Avatar
tcrpe tcrpe is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Bakersfield, California
Posts: 10,272
iTrader: 3 / 100%
Default

What was the clown in Alabama shooting?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverTauron View Post
Considering the facts of how easily safes can be defeated, a park bench offers the same amount of protection.
Quote:
Originally Posted by loose_electron View Post
PE card? LOL! Any green kid out of engineering school can get that with a few years of experience.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 03-10-2009, 7:10 PM
pullnshoot25 pullnshoot25 is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: San Diego, KA area
Posts: 8,073
iTrader: 17 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by B Strong View Post
It wasn't an AK, it was an M11/9.

http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs.cmu.edu...y_v_dayton.txt

Edit - if you define crime as possession of a weapon, there have been instances where a registered NFA weapon or device was involved in a crime that didn't involve the use of the weapon in question. The one that comes to mind immediately is the individual who was being investigated for domestic violence. When contacted by the LEO's he had his (model and type escapes me) registered MG loaded and concealed under a blanket in the bedroom where he was found by the LEO's.

He was convicted on DV charges, but I'm unaware of what happened with the weapons charge.
Beat me to it.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 03-10-2009, 7:11 PM
Jonathan Doe
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
iTrader: / %
Default

How about I actually see them come through my office very often?
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 03-10-2009, 7:21 PM
trashman's Avatar
trashman trashman is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: The Great Valley
Posts: 3,816
iTrader: 37 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by topgun7 View Post
How about I actually see them come through my office very often?
Just for grins and giggles, I'd be curious as to what the percentage is, and the total number (sample size). I seem to recall the oft-quoted FBI statistics showed AK-pattern rifles very, very low on the list (statistically speaking).

(I'm not trying to gainsay you -- just genuinely curious as to your experience!)

--Neill
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 03-10-2009, 7:28 PM
Jonathan Doe
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
iTrader: / %
Default

I would like to say among rifles, maybe 40 -50% SKS type, 20-30% AK type, and rest are divided into some AR type, and 22 LR, some lever actions, and very few bolt guns. I never kept a track of them, and my office do not keep stat on the issue. As a matter of fact, one of the armored car robbery suspects used a OLL AR (I believe RRA) without mag lock w/ 6 positon stock, 10 1/2" upper and EOTech. A very nice rifle. I liked it.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 03-10-2009, 7:30 PM
trashman's Avatar
trashman trashman is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: The Great Valley
Posts: 3,816
iTrader: 37 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by topgun7 View Post
I would like to say among rifles, maybe 40 -50% SKS type, 20-30% AK type, and rest are divided into some AR type, and 22 LR, some lever actions, and very few bolt guns. I never kept a track of them, and my office do not keep stat on the issue. As a matter of fact, one of the armored car robbery suspects used a OLL AR (I believe RRA) without mag lock w/ 6 positon stock, 10 1/2" upper and EOTech. A very nice rifle. I liked it.
Interesting! How would it compare to "all guns" - i.e., handguns inclusive?

(I realize I'm starting to wander off topic, sorry...)

cheers
--Neill
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 03-10-2009, 7:41 PM
Josh3239's Avatar
Josh3239 Josh3239 is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: SoCal
Posts: 9,066
iTrader: 55 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by audihenry View Post
Care to back it up? The fact that the weapons were semi before being converted strongly suggests they were legally acquired. If you were to go into the black market, you'd get full auto to begin with.
Okay, I'll try this again.

Larry Phillips Jr was a felon and I believe Matasaranu was a felon as well. Would you care to explain how to felons can legally buy a rifle?

Chances are these guys bought some AKs that were either stolen or straw purchased, then illegally converted to automatic, and then sold.
__________________
Proud NRA Life Member As Of 2016


"The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism, but under the name of liberalism they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program until one day America will be a socialist nation without ever knowing how it happened." Norman Thomas, American socialist
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 03-10-2009, 8:10 PM
MonsterMan's Avatar
MonsterMan MonsterMan is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor - Lifetime
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Burbank, CA
Posts: 1,527
iTrader: 29 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by topgun7 View Post
I would like to say among rifles, maybe 40 -50% SKS type, 20-30% AK type, and rest are divided into some AR type, and 22 LR, some lever actions, and very few bolt guns. I never kept a track of them, and my office do not keep stat on the issue. As a matter of fact, one of the armored car robbery suspects used a OLL AR (I believe RRA) without mag lock w/ 6 positon stock, 10 1/2" upper and EOTech. A very nice rifle. I liked it.
Aren't .22's exempt from AW status (can have detachable mags and all the evil features)? Unless they are SBR's they shouldn't be in your office for examining right?
__________________
"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid." -Han Solo
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 2:38 PM.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Proudly hosted by GeoVario the Premier 2A host.
Calguns.net, the 'Calguns' name and all associated variants and logos are ® Trademark and © Copyright 2002-2018, Calguns.net an Incorporated Company All Rights Reserved.
Calguns.net and The Calguns Foundation have no affiliation and are in no way related to each other.
All opinions, statements and remarks made by Calguns.net on this web site and elsewhere are solely attributable to Calguns.net.