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Concealed Carry Discussion General discussion regarding CCW/LTC in California

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  #1  
Old 05-30-2017, 11:54 AM
Geist Geist is offline
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Default My brief Experience with USCCA

I decided to sign up for USCCA today and had an interaction trying to sign my spouse up using their discount and this was the result:

Thank you for contacting the USCCA! Please hold for the next available member services advisor.
Ali
11:01 AM
Hello, my name is Ali, how can I help you?
You
11:01 AM
Hi we were just speaking a minute ago about adding on a spousal membership
You
11:01 AM
so there is no silver level spouse discount?
You
11:01 AM
Family Covered In Your HomeYour USCCA membership protects your spouse, any relatives, and anyone under the age of 21 in your care, inside your home, and on your residential property. However, if your spouse carries regularly, they NEED their own membership to ensure they’re completely covered by the powerful protection of the Self-Defense SHIELD. You can add them to your membership at any time for a significant discount.
Ali
11:01 AM
That is correct. The spouse discount is only for the Gold and Platinum membership levels.
You
11:01 AM
"You can add them to your membership at any time for a significant discount."
You
11:02 AM
why doesn't it say it in that section then?
Ali
11:03 AM
That section isn't intended to mention any specific level of membership, but to direct you to us so we can tell you about the discounts we do offer.
Ali
11:03 AM
I am sorry for any confusion there may have been.
You
11:04 AM
It's a little misleading
You
11:04 AM
From the way it's written it sounds like any level can add a spouse for a discount
Ali
11:05 AM
I am sorry. It is not intended to be misleading, but to tell you that there are discounts available and that we would love to tell you about them.
You
11:06 AM
Well if I go off of what is written there, I would like to add my wife to my membership for a significant discount, and since it says at any time, I'd like to do so now
Ali
11:07 AM
We would love to have you add your spouse using the spouse special rate when you are both at our Gold or Platinum levels of membership. Unfortunately, I cannot process that over chat because we want to keep your information secure.
Ali
11:08 AM
To add your spouse please give us a call at 877-677-1919.
You
11:08 AM
So that line is a bait and switch to get me to upgrade my membership level?
Ali
11:09 AM
No, not at all, Sir. This is our spouse special.
Ali
11:09 AM
Your wife is covered if she defends herself in your home, under your membership.
You
11:10 AM
Where does it state my membership has to be a gold or platinum membership for the discount please
Ali
11:12 AM
It does not mention any specifics on the special rate other than the fact that we have one available and when someone asks about it, we share the details.
You
11:13 AM
So it's a bait and switch
You
11:13 AM
That's exactly how those work
You
11:13 AM
you expect it to be for any membership, since it states 'to your membership' but when you ask you have to upgrade to get it
Ali
11:15 AM
I'm very sorry for any confusion, Royce. The special we have for spouses is when one spouse has a Gold or Platinum membership the other spouse will receive half off their Gold or Platinum membership.
You
11:17 AM
I would like a refund and to cancel my membership
Ali
11:19 AM
I am very sorry to hear you feel that way, Royce. Unfortunately, I am not able to cancel anything via chat as there is an insurance backed portion to our membership. We would need to you to call us to cancel the membership. We're available at 877-677-1919 until 10 pm tonight.

* https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/membership/ * #15 in the 'How it Works' section for where I cited the spouse section *

I'm pretty disappointed in this, and although all the reviews point to this company as the best one out there currently I'm now rethinking that. I know this is pretty minor really as it's a small amount monthly, but still if this is how it is with the small things, how can I expect them to defend me on the big things?

Does anyone have actual experience with them for defense? What do you guys think?

Last edited by Geist; 05-30-2017 at 11:57 AM..
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  #2  
Old 05-30-2017, 12:31 PM
Rogue187 Rogue187 is offline
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It seems you were arguing with a chat bot and not a real person.. perhaps you should try contacting them and talking to someone live.


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  #3  
Old 05-30-2017, 12:34 PM
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back4more70 back4more70 is offline
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I would drop them too based on that. I have not had dealings with them, but I will share my CCW Safe story. I was trying to sign up for membership, and had trouble online. I called in, and a nice lady took my info but was unable to help. I got a call back from a membership services person (forget his name), and he answered all questions and fixed my issue. We were on the phone for about ten minutes or so. And it's not like I am a premium member, they probably lost money speaking to me. I decided to stick with them after this interaction, since they took the time to assist me.
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Old 05-30-2017, 12:42 PM
Geist Geist is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogue187 View Post
It seems you were arguing with a chat bot and not a real person.. perhaps you should try contacting them and talking to someone live.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
To confirm I called in and had essentially the same conversation with one of their phone reps. The only thing different was that the rep told me he would forward the information to their marketing department, but it was worded that way, and people are not given the option to add a spouse so that they have to call in to do so. In my opinion so they can be up sold.

I went ahead and cancelled my membership.
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  #5  
Old 05-30-2017, 1:20 PM
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bruss01 bruss01 is offline
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There is always a "gotcha".

Always.

It was just a question of how/when/whether you would discover theirs.

Everybody else has one too... it's just the way it goes.

If you think you found an exception to this rule... that means you just haven't bumped into theirs yet.

Your discovery might be a reason to refrain from adding your wife to the plan... not sure it's a reason to drop the plan on yourself, if you've found it to be an otherwise good plan. Sounds like some of their advertising is poorly worded, doesn't cover all the fine print. Wow, that's a surprise in advertising... NOT. If you feel you were personally singled out for mistreatment, or if you thought they outright lied, that would be one thing... the strongest case I see you making is the wording made you jump to a conclusion that wasn't borne out in the fine print. Sucks, sure, but it happens.

I've never had any dealings with them so I have zero skin in the game, just an interested onlooker. I've considered CCW insurance and they are one of the companies I've seen mentioned before.
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  #6  
Old 05-30-2017, 5:36 PM
drumngun drumngun is offline
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mmm.. makes me wonder if they would even honor what they claim in regards to the benefits. would suck to sit in the clink as uscca runs away with your money, but I have NEVER trusted ins. companies or lawyers.
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  #7  
Old 05-30-2017, 6:55 PM
tnlrat37 tnlrat37 is offline
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Hope I have better luck, I need to add my wife after she just got her ccw, I have the platinum though, I still hate hearing about customer service issues.
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  #8  
Old 05-30-2017, 7:15 PM
SoCalPI SoCalPI is offline
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Did you record that or recall it from memory?
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  #9  
Old 05-30-2017, 7:54 PM
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Can you summarize the gist of your complaint, rather than have me parse it from a chat log? I am interested to know so I can make a better decision. I am currently considering the new NRA program.
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Old 05-30-2017, 8:32 PM
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Seems typical of USCCA..

Any company that has to constantly bribe people with giveaways to sign up is always sketchy in my book.


Considered them at one point but after doing some digging into their policies it doesn't seem to be very protective.

My boss has a policy with them. First of all they have an employee look at your case and determine whether or not to financially back you.

Meaning no matter how airtight your self-defense shooting might be, they can turn you away at their leisure.

The big killer for me was that most of the money used to pay for your criminal and/or civil cases has to be paid back to them even if you are found innocent.

I don't recall what the specific items that are exempt from reimbursement are.

Either way I would strongly trying to read through all the legal crap in your policy terms, or paying someone else to, before you start one of those things.
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  #11  
Old 05-30-2017, 9:22 PM
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For the OP, here is the "fine print" for who is covered from by my USCCA policy:

Quote:
Originally Posted by USCCA Coverage Handbook, page 21
SECTION II - WHO IS AN INSURED
1. Those individuals shown on the membership roster of the United States Concealed Carry Association, Inc. as an active member on the date of the “occurrence” and whose membership commenced or renewed on or after June 6, 2011;
2. Residents of the household of the individuals in 1., above, on the date of the “occurrence” who are:
a. Relatives of the individual; or
b. Persons under the age of 21 and in the care of the individuals in 1. above.
However, the individuals identi ed in paragraphs 2. a. and b. above are insureds only with respect to “acts of self-defense” involving the use of a rearm, or other weapon, that is “legally possessed” on or in the residence premises.
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  #12  
Old 05-30-2017, 10:53 PM
Considerizer Considerizer is offline
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Disclaimer: I am a Platinum Level "member" with USCCA.

OP, it seems like USCCA answered all of your questions professionally and promptly, and that you felt entitled to badger the rep because of your misunderstanding. IMO, $350 per year for this policy is a fantastic deal. If your spouse carries, should she not also have her own policy? Truly don't get the fuss.
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  #13  
Old 05-31-2017, 9:28 AM
Geist Geist is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Considerizer View Post
Disclaimer: I am a Platinum Level "member" with USCCA.

OP, it seems like USCCA answered all of your questions professionally and promptly, and that you felt entitled to badger the rep because of your misunderstanding. IMO, $350 per year for this policy is a fantastic deal. If your spouse carries, should she not also have her own policy? Truly don't get the fuss.
Have you had to use the policy yet?

In my opinion when a company is blatant about using bait and switch tactics that's a huge red flag for me. My misunderstanding was reading "We've got nothing to hide..." and expecting to be able to "You can add them to your membership at any time for a significant discount." If they had "(Discount for spouses can only be applied to Gold or Platinum Memberships)" I would not have a problem. Seems pretty simple to add that extra bit doesn't it? But instead I was told: "It's written that way to get people to call in" so they can be up sold.

If you drove into a gas station that had $1 gallon of gas posted and once you got to the pump it was $10, wouldn't you feel a little upset and most likely drive away from that gas station?

I'm wondering if during the NRA's meetings with them the NRA saw this and other business practices they didn't like and that's why they dropped them rather than just being competition.
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Old 05-31-2017, 9:31 AM
Geist Geist is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCalPI View Post
Did you record that or recall it from memory?
Chat log was recorded, phone call was from memory moments after hanging up.
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Old 05-31-2017, 10:06 AM
mbucklew11 mbucklew11 is offline
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I am a USCCA member, and from what I have read, they do have the most comprehensive ccw insurance offered. All my experiences with them have been quite positive. No I have not had to use the insurance (thankfully).

The issue I have is with you analogy about the gas. The difference is you got your gas for $1 per gallon, but you were upset that you didn't get a discount on your car wash because you used 87 octane instead of the 93. Yeah, it stinks that it wasn't clarified. I would probably be a little disappointed and would explain why I was upset. However, in this case you still got a full tank of gas at a good price. Would you tell your wife to not fill up her car too even if you didn't get a discount for it if the price was good?

I might be a little biased, but look anywhere else, and you will not find another organization that does as much for the Concealed Carry community specifically as the USCCA. Their resources, benefits, and overall value to both members and non-members is unparalleled in the industry. There is a reason they were asked to not attend the NRA national meeting this year, and it is because their training/resources and insurance rival that of the NRA's.

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Old 05-31-2017, 1:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbucklew11 View Post
I am a USCCA member, and from what I have read, they do have the most comprehensive ccw insurance offered. All my experiences with them have been quite positive. No I have not had to use the insurance (thankfully).

The issue I have is with you analogy about the gas. The difference is you got your gas for $1 per gallon, but you were upset that you didn't get a discount on your car wash because you used 87 octane instead of the 93. Yeah, it stinks that it wasn't clarified. I would probably be a little disappointed and would explain why I was upset. However, in this case you still got a full tank of gas at a good price. Would you tell your wife to not fill up her car too even if you didn't get a discount for it if the price was good?
I might be a little biased, but look anywhere else, and you will not find another organization that does as much for the Concealed Carry community specifically as the USCCA. Their resources, benefits, and overall value to both members and non-members is unparalleled in the industry. There is a reason they were asked to not attend the NRA national meeting this year, and it is because their training/resources and insurance rival that of the NRA's.

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it went right over your head didn't it.
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Old 05-31-2017, 1:41 PM
Tough Guy Levi Tough Guy Levi is offline
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When I joined USCCA I hadn't had a chance to read their magazine but when I received it, I WAS PISSED. Promoting Concealed Carry, the magazine doesn't have a PRIVACY envelope thus my name/address was EXPOSED on the cover of the magazine. Anyone who handled the USCCA magazine now knew I either had an interest in CCW or had a CCW! While my American Rifleman depicts my name/address on the cover as do other magazines but none I receive are specific enough for someone to know I'm interested in rifles, handguns etc. Whoever sorted my building mail would know of my interest and wouldn't you know it, a downstairs tenant asked me if I had a CCW since the mail person sorted the tenant mail in his area. CONCEALED means CONCEALED! Don't you think their USCCA magazine would be CONCEALED TOO? When I called to express my displeasure I was informed
I could have a privacy envelope for delivery purposes. I asked why this wasn't POLICY and an answer wasn't forthcoming. A note to USCCA owner never received an acknowledgement nor response after I was told I would receive a response. Didn't surprise me!!

Tough Guy Levi
Orange
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Old 05-31-2017, 2:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tough Guy Levi View Post
When I joined USCCA I hadn't had a chance to read their magazine but when I received it, I WAS PISSED. Promoting Concealed Carry, the magazine doesn't have a PRIVACY envelope thus my name/address was EXPOSED on the cover of the magazine. Anyone who handled the USCCA magazine now knew I either had an interest in CCW or had a CCW! While my American Rifleman depicts my name/address on the cover as do other magazines but none I receive are specific enough for someone to know I'm interested in rifles, handguns etc. Whoever sorted my building mail would know of my interest and wouldn't you know it, a downstairs tenant asked me if I had a CCW since the mail person sorted the tenant mail in his area. CONCEALED means CONCEALED! Don't you think their USCCA magazine would be CONCEALED TOO? When I called to express my displeasure I was informed
I could have a privacy envelope for delivery purposes. I asked why this wasn't POLICY and an answer wasn't forthcoming. A note to USCCA owner never received an acknowledgement nor response after I was told I would receive a response. Didn't surprise me!!

Tough Guy Levi
Orange
Interesting. I say that because my first 2 issues of the magazine never arrived at my home. After calling them and complaining about it I now get EVERY issue in the plain brown envelope. My wife calls it my gun porn delivery. Oh, and they sent not only the 2 issues that were lost but the previous 4 to as well!
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Old 05-31-2017, 3:37 PM
Tough Guy Levi Tough Guy Levi is offline
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Default Privacy Envelope

When you remove your USCCA magazine from it's privacy envelope you will note in the bottom right hand corner blank WHITE SPACE for inputting members name, address. Why not a Privacy Envelope as SOP and if members don't care if everyone knows they are a CCW interested party or holder then given them an OBT out policy when they sign up. Our IRS has an e-file policy yet taxpayers can obt out for various reasons thus paper file.

Tough Guy Levi
Orange, CA



Quote:
Originally Posted by baggss View Post
Interesting. I say that because my first 2 issues of the magazine never arrived at my home. After calling them and complaining about it I now get EVERY issue in the plain brown envelope. My wife calls it my gun porn delivery. Oh, and they sent not only the 2 issues that were lost but the previous 4 to as well!
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Old 05-31-2017, 4:34 PM
mbucklew11 mbucklew11 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drumngun View Post
it went right over your head didn't it.
To disagree with my views and feel differently about the situation is one thing, but to resort to degrading comments about someone else's positive experiences with the USCCA does not provide any value to this thread. We were discussing our experiences, and I shared mine. I also felt that the original analogy was not a good parallel to the actually situation, so I provided my view on the subject.

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  #21  
Old 05-31-2017, 10:33 PM
Considerizer Considerizer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geist View Post
Have you had to use the policy yet?
No I haven't. My house hasn't burned down either, but I still have homeowner's insurance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geist View Post
In my opinion when a company is blatant about using bait and switch tactics that's a huge red flag for me.
You don't appear to understand what "bait and switch" means. What you've described is not "bait and switch", it is a marketing promotional lacking specifics, as do all marketing promotionals. According to your post, you called them and had a polite representative provide you with clear answers within what appeared to be a few moments time. Their ad states "All membership benefits are subject to membership level, per occurrence limits. There are no annual occurrence limits."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geist View Post
If you drove into a gas station that had $1 gallon of gas posted and once you got to the pump it was $10, wouldn't you feel a little upset and most likely drive away from that gas station?
This is a false analogy. You can purchase the policy for the advertised amounts. You get exactly the product that is being advertised. The problem here is that you misunderstood their promotional.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geist View Post
I'm wondering if during the NRA's meetings with them the NRA saw this and other business practices they didn't like and that's why they dropped them rather than just being competition.
It looks to me like you've publicly maligned and slandered a reputable company because their $260 policy would not cover your wife. I don't think that's too cool.
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  #22  
Old 06-01-2017, 8:59 AM
Geist Geist is offline
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Considerizer -

bait-and-switch
noun
the action (generally illegal) of advertising goods that are an apparent bargain, with the intention of substituting inferior or more expensive goods.

"You can add them to your membership at any time for a significant discount." USCCA -- You actually can't add them at any time for a discount, because it's only for higher priced memberships.

"Ali
11:12 AM
It does not mention any specifics on the special rate other than the fact that we have one available and when someone asks about it, we share the details. " -- Substituting more expensive goods.

Better for you?

Last edited by Geist; 06-01-2017 at 9:06 AM..
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