HOW TO:Interstate intrafamilial off roster handgun transfer

[GOLDEN GUN]

I finally spoke to my DOJ field rep and got a precise answer. This is what she said FFLs need to get it through.

Example: Father in state A wants to gift off roster handgun to son in California

Father signs a notarized letter indicating who he is, his address, his relationship to his son, who his son is, his sons address, and the make, model, and serial number of handgun, as well as the intention of gifting it to his son.

Father then includes a copy of his DL from State A verifying the information, the notarized letter, and the firearm in the same box and ships it directly to California FFL. (Father does not need to ship through an FFL in his state)

Once California FFL recieves package with all documents and firearms, Son can come in and Dros the handgun as an exempt handgun sale, pay Dros fees, and wait 10 days like an ordinary Dros.

UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCE MAY THEY ALSO BRING IN ANY ASSUALT WEAPONS OR HIGH CAPACITY MAGAZINES FROM STATE A!!

Any questions?

This information comes straight from my DOJ field rep.

Disclosure: Field rep said it doesn't have to be notarized and it is at the discretion of FFL and what makes them feel comfortable in putting their license at risk. For me and the DOJ Field rep, we both agreed that a notarized letter indicating that information wth a copy of the DL is the strongest form of security in this transaction.

[CAL.BAR]

Good luck finding an FFL to take a gun directly from a non FFL. I don't know any that will.

[GOLDEN GUN]

I do

[PlacerTactical]

Originally Posted by GOLDEN GUN

I do

I do as well. I also input "intrafamilial transfer" in the comments section on the DROS.

[GOLDEN GUN]

That's a good idea

[wpod]

Would it be any less traumatic to the FFL if the out-of-state parent was visiting in CA and both parent and (adult) child walked in?
(Might have this happen in my family)

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[MJB]

What about brother to brother?

[teg33]

Brother to brother is no go

[GOLDEN GUN]

Originally Posted by wpod

Would it be any less traumatic to the FFL if the out-of-state parent was visiting in CA and both parent and (adult) child walked in?
(Might have this happen in my family)

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No difference how the gun comes in to the state.. Notarized letter would still be required

[GOLDEN GUN]

Originally Posted by MJB

What about brother to brother?

Must be vertical transfer... Parent to Child, Child to parent, grandparent to grandchild, grandchild to grandparent

[kemasa]

Originally Posted by CAL.BAR

Good luck finding an FFL to take a gun directly from a non FFL. I don't know any that will.

I do too.

I think it is just an extra hoop to jump through to require that the letter be notarized. The letter, with a copy of the ID, would be enough and the CA DOJ would have to prove that it was all false. The question is the extra "protection" worth requiring?

[GOLDEN GUN]

Originally Posted by kemasa

I do too.

I think it is just an extra hoop to jump through to require that the letter be notarized. The letter, with a copy of the ID, would be enough and the CA DOJ would have to prove that it was all false. The question is the extra "protection" worth requiring?

As I disclosed, DOJ agent said notarized was not necessary, only a signed letter was necessary... However she did say that that would be the strongest form of proof one can get alongside a drivers license. She said t is up the the dealer what they feel comfortable taking since it's their license

[ugimports]

Originally Posted by GOLDEN GUN

I finally spoke to my DOJ field rep and got a precise answer. This is what she said FFLs need to get it through.

Example: Father in state A wants to gift off roster handgun to son in California

Father signs a notarized letter indicating who he is, his address, his relationship to his son, who his son is, his sons address, and the make, model, and serial number of handgun, as well as the intention of gifting it to his son.

Father then includes a copy of his DL from State A verifying the information, the notarized letter, and the firearm in the same box and ships it directly to California FFL. (Father does not need to ship through an FFL in his state)

Once California FFL recieves package with all documents and firearms, Son can come in and Dros the handgun as an exempt handgun sale, pay Dros fees, and wait 10 days like an ordinary Dros.

UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCE MAY THEY ALSO BRING IN ANY ASSUALT WEAPONS OR HIGH CAPACITY MAGAZINES FROM STATE A!!

Any questions?

This information comes straight from my DOJ field rep.

Disclosure: Field rep said it doesn't have to be notarized and it is at the discretion of FFL and what makes them feel comfortable in putting their license at risk. For me and the DOJ Field rep, we both agreed that a notarized letter indicating that information wth a copy of the DL is the strongest form of security in this transaction.

Good to know I've been doing it right. I also put this in the comments: "SB 15 Exempt - 27870PC intrafamily transfer, 12133PC Roster Exempt"

I don't know how much the notorization buys you though. Meaning it doesn't notarize the relationship. Just that the ID matches the person signing. I don't require that part.

E.g., Say we have:
John Doe Jr in CA
John Doe Sr in AZ (real dad)
John Doe in AZ (uncle)

I can get the notarized letter showing the Uncle is the "dad" on paper since the person doing the notary doesn't prove that. All they prove is that the "John Doe" signed the paper and his ID matched who he was.

If John Doe Jr is going to go through all that and perjure his uncle or friend named John Doe in AZ I'm not too worried. I would think the % of those really trying to work around the roster and willing to lie are very very low. I would suspect it would be easier for those types to go to a NV or AZ gun show and purchase from a private party.

[varanidguy]

Originally Posted by GOLDEN GUN

I finally spoke to my DOJ field rep and got a precise answer. This is what she said FFLs need to get it through.

Example: Father in state A wants to gift off roster handgun to son in California

Father signs a notarized letter indicating who he is, his address, his relationship to his son, who his son is, his sons address, and the make, model, and serial number of handgun, as well as the intention of gifting it to his son.

Father then includes a copy of his DL from State A verifying the information, the notarized letter, and the firearm in the same box and ships it directly to California FFL. (Father does not need to ship through an FFL in his state)

Once California FFL recieves package with all documents and firearms, Son can come in and Dros the handgun as an exempt handgun sale, pay Dros fees, and wait 10 days like an ordinary Dros.

UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCE MAY THEY ALSO BRING IN ANY ASSUALT WEAPONS OR HIGH CAPACITY MAGAZINES FROM STATE A!!

Any questions?

This information comes straight from my DOJ field rep.

Disclosure: Field rep said it doesn't have to be notarized and it is at the discretion of FFL and what makes them feel comfortable in putting their license at risk. For me and the DOJ Field rep, we both agreed that a notarized letter indicating that information wth a copy of the DL is the strongest form of security in this transaction.

Is all that documentation necessary if they bring it in with them on a visit?

Never mind. Saw that someone already asked that. Egg is on my lazy face.

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[SRBill]

Kinda crazy. I visited a LGS. He said that it is best FFL to FFL. Said two transfers were turned down recently cuz the one transferring had an Oregon DL. LGS is here in Santa Rosa.. Markets. The other, Rinkor, also suggested best to go FFL to FFL.

I'd love to be able to have my son send it directly with documentation directly to my FFL.

[ugimports]

Originally Posted by SRBill

Kinda crazy. I visited a LGS. He said that it is best FFL to FFL. Said two transfers were turned down recently cuz the one transferring had an Oregon DL. LGS is here in Santa Rosa.. Markets. The other, Rinkor, also suggested best to go FFL to FFL.

I'd love to be able to have my son send it directly with documentation directly to my FFL.

If you don't mind driving to Fremont you can do it with us. http://ugimports.com/howto-transfer

Thanks

[PlacerTactical]

Originally Posted by SRBill

Kinda crazy. I visited a LGS. He said that it is best FFL to FFL. Said two transfers were turned down recently cuz the one transferring had an Oregon DL. LGS is here in Santa Rosa.. Markets. The other, Rinkor, also suggested best to go FFL to FFL.

I'd love to be able to have my son send it directly with documentation directly to my FFL.

Sometimes it is cheaper to ship using an FFL but there is no law prohibiting non-licensees to ship themselves.

[EBR Works]

We did hundreds of these when we were still in CA. We never had the transferor notarize their letter and never had issues. We simply put "Inter-state Intra-family transfer, roster exempt" on every DROS and they were all approved.

As to receiving from individuals; we just require a photo of the seller's DL or state ID card by email first. Did hundreds of these as well. No troubles.

[Sacramento Gun Club]

Originally Posted by PlacerTactical

Sometimes it is cheaper to ship using an FFL but there is no law prohibiting non-licensees to ship themselves.

Correct, however their are federal laws regarding what courier may be used and how the firearms are shipped. FFL shipments for convenience, but not necessary.

We've done both shipments and walk-ins following the same procedure stated in the OP minus the notary. 27870PC intrafamily transfer is notated in the notes/comments section of the DROS, 4473, and our internal coversheet. Transferor doesn't even need to be present since it's not a PPT.

[Baboosh]

We've never had an issue in our audits and never require anything notarized. In the comments we just put Intrafamily Transfer.

We had them put basic info on letter:
I, THEIR NAME, am gifting a MAKE AND MODEL to my SON/DAUGHTER/ETC THEIR NAME with serial XXX.

We also accept from individuals with copy of ID.

I don't understand how this would put a license at risk? If someone mails us a firearm with fraudulent intentions are we supposed to verify that the person is actually their grandparent or parents? People have had different names but we are not a background investigation agency, what do they expect us to do?

[ugimports]

We use this gift letter template:
http://www.ugimports.com/docs/Gift_F..._Template.docx
or
http://www.ugimports.com/docs/Gift_Firearm_Template.pdf

[Condorguns]

Originally Posted by ugimports

We use this gift letter template:
http://www.ugimports.com/docs/Gift_F..._Template.docx
or
http://www.ugimports.com/docs/Gift_Firearm_Template.pdf

Very nice!

[kemasa]

Originally Posted by ugimports

We use this gift letter template:
http://www.ugimports.com/docs/Gift_F..._Template.docx
or
http://www.ugimports.com/docs/Gift_Firearm_Template.pdf

FYI, I would add a place for them to date when they signed it.

[ugimports]

funny, I never noticed that I didn't have date on that..thanks

--fixed, date added--

[KBuilt]

Is a FSC necessary to receive the transferred firearm?

[code_blue]

Originally Posted by KBuilt

Is a FSC necessary to receive the transferred firearm?

You're asking an interstate intrafamilial transfer thread so yes since it has to go through an FFL and DROS.

As I stated in your other thread, the OPLaw form requires an HSC/FSC number if you are using the OPLaw and you are both CA residents.

[KBuilt]

Originally Posted by anbu_yoshi

You're asking an interstate intrafamilial transfer thread so yes since it has to go through an FFL and DROS.

As I stated in your other thread, the OPLaw form requires an HSC/FSC number if you are using the OPLaw and you are both CA residents.

Thank you for both. I didn't see your other post on the thread before this post.

[EBR Works]

Originally Posted by e0eli

How many guns can be gifting at a time? Let's say 3 off-roster pistols, is this okay? Thanks

The 1 in 30 day limitation applies for handguns.

[ugimports]

Originally Posted by e0eli

How many guns can be gifting at a time? Let's say 3 off-roster pistols, is this okay? Thanks

Yes, but as EBR said only 1-30 can be transferred at a time. I don't care if my customers receives all 3 at the same time, but he will get them over a 70-90 day period.

[e0eli]

Originally Posted by ugimports

Yes, but as EBR said only 1-30 can be transferred at a time. I don't care if my customers receives all 3 at the same time, but he will get them over a 70-90 day period.

Thank you. That's all I need to know. I'm aware of the 1-30. At least they are in the FFL's safe, and all I need to do is wait.

[huktunfonikz]

Hoping to get some more opinions...

I have been reading a lot about intrafamilial interstate transfers, and I spoke with an FFL in Burbank about my particular situation today and I wanted to find out what you all thought.

My father is a resident of Texas, but he is visiting me here in CA, in August. He is planning to gift me an off-roster handgun (for my birthday) when he comes to visit, so he asked me to figure out the best way to do this while staying compliant with CA laws.

The FFL I spoke to in Burbank said that since my father is physically bringing his firearm into CA to gift to me, I only need to fill out an intrafamilial transfer form and submit it with a $19 check. No need to go through an FFL. From the earlier posts, it seems like this FFL is incorrect?

If the FFL is correct, does the 1 every 30 rule apply, or can he gift me more than one at a time?

[ke6guj]

Originally Posted by huktunfonikz

Hoping to get some more opinions...

I have been reading a lot about intrafamilial interstate transfers, and I spoke with an FFL in Burbank about my particular situation today and I wanted to find out what you all thought.

My father is a resident of Texas, but he is visiting me here in CA, in August. He is planning to gift me an off-roster handgun (for my birthday) when he comes to visit, so he asked me to figure out the best way to do this while staying compliant with CA laws.

The FFL I spoke to in Burbank said that since my father is physically bringing his firearm into CA to gift to me, I only need to fill out an intrafamilial transfer form and submit it with a $19 check. No need to go through an FFL. From the earlier posts, it seems like this FFL is incorrect?

If the FFL is correct, does the 1 every 30 rule apply, or can he gift me more than one at a time?

the FFL is incorrect.

federal law prohibits your father from transfering a firearm to a resident of a different state than your father lives in without using an FFL. your FFL is suggesting your father commit a federal FELONY and then have you document his felony by sending in proof to CADOJ.

[MJB]

I have a buddy that needs to transfer 30 hand guns that are reg to his Dad in NYC.....the FFL here told him only the ones that are on CA roster can be transferred because of NYC.....

He's in Encinitas is their a FFL nearby that can make this happen?

[kemasa]

Originally Posted by MJB

I have a buddy that needs to transfer 30 hand guns that are reg to his Dad in NYC.....the FFL here told him only the ones that are on CA roster can be transferred because of NYC.....

He's in Encinitas is their a FFL nearby that can make this happen?

Intrafamilial transfers are exempt from the roster, BUT if it goes through a FFL, it is not exempt from the 1 in 30.

[huktunfonikz]

Thanks Jack - that is kind of what I thought as well, based on what I have read. Unfortunately it also seems rather difficult to find someone in LA area that knows what to do. I think Martin B Retting is the only FFL that I have spoken to over the phone that might have a clue, but they are also across town for me.

Anyone have any other FFL recommendations a little closer to Pasadena, that also know how to handle this type of transfer?

[MJB]

^^^and I need one for San Diego

[NatetheGr8]

Suggestions for Nor Cal FFL that knows how to do this? Also just curious if the intrafamilial transfer is complete could the receiver PPT to another CA resident?

[ugimports]

Originally Posted by NatetheGr8

Suggestions for Nor Cal FFL that knows how to do this?

We are in Fremont and do interstate intrafamilial transfers - http://ugimports.com/howto-transfer

Also just curious if the intrafamilial transfer is complete could the receiver PPT to another CA resident?

Yes, under current laws.

Was there a reason (saw something/read something) you were thinking that a CA resident wouldn't be able to PPT a firearm they no longer wanted?

[M1NM]

Originally Posted by CAL.BAR

Good luck finding an FFL to take a gun directly from a non FFL. I don't know any that will.

I know of MANY - Aces in West Covina just received one for me $25 receiving fee & $25 DROS.

[GOLDEN GUN]

I accept firearms from nonFFLs