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Survival and Preparations Long and short term survival and 'prepping'.

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  #1  
Old 01-13-2020, 2:46 PM
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Default Silver - How Much

How much silver bullion would you have for SHTF scenarios? Is there a limit such as all you can afford, or is a set amount like 20 or 100 ounces enough?
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Old 01-13-2020, 3:41 PM
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No more than 10% of your overall networth should be tied up into any ONE thing. Diversity is the Key. Beans, bacon, band-aids and bullets should be near the top of your list before silver.

Now for your question "How much Silver"? Ask yourself what would you buy with the silver, (or gold) in a SHTF situation? I would think that about 20 oz would be enough to start off with. But, I am not sure what I would buy/barter for with silver. I would rather barter with water and beans.

Are you considering "bullion" or junk silver coinage? (Pre-1965 Dimes, quarters, half dollars, dollars, and 1942-1945 nickles)

Best regards,
870classic.
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Old 01-13-2020, 4:19 PM
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This year I managed to purchase two rolls of dimes, a roll of quarters all for my bug out bag. I have over the last few years collected 50 one ounce coins from either Canada or the US mint (eagles or maple leafs of various kinds - all silver). Only gold I have is hierloom stuff including just 3 smaller coins. Being alone I have plenty of firearms, ammo, food, water and first aid. I'm a prepper that focuses on sustainable living more then accumulation.
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Old 01-13-2020, 4:48 PM
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I would think you're better off with coins because they have a known amount of silver in them whereas what do you do with bullion in an emergency? Break off a chunk and weigh it?
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Old 01-13-2020, 4:53 PM
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I don't own any gold or silver. I own lots of lead. If I need gold or silver I'll just trade it for lead👍👹
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Old 01-13-2020, 5:04 PM
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Silver dollars...

Some small gold coins 1/4 oz
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Old 01-13-2020, 5:10 PM
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For SHTF you will need pounds not ounces.
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Old 01-13-2020, 6:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harbormaster View Post
How much silver bullion would you have for SHTF scenarios? Is there a limit such as all you can afford, or is a set amount like 20 or 100 ounces enough?
None, just find a neighbor you don't really like that much (especially an anti gunner), and encourage them to store a lot of silver. When SHTF, just pay them a visit.
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Old 01-13-2020, 7:19 PM
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This is a hard question to answer because each persons needs and wealth are so diverse.

I prefer a mix of bullion numismatics and junk coins. The value of bullion is having large bars for bigger trading. Numismatics are not that important in a SHTF but could be a good investment in it never happens. Junk coins as mentioned are more recognizable as silver and not likely to be counterfeited. I would work towards at least 10 to 20 pounds.

Other metals:

Gold coins are good to have also they should also be a mix of circulated coins and bullion too.
I think at least 5 ounces would be a good start

Dore bars can be good if you can find them they are a mix of metals mostly silver and gold maybe even platinum etc. I have 5 pound bars that look like ratty looking silver bars to most people they might not even know they are valuable but, mine contain 1 or two ounces of gold per pound of silver. While not as practical for most people I have the ability to separate them out to gold or silver if needed.

Lead.. I like at least three or four hundred pounds of it. lol

Some people will say a lot more or less, bottom line get what you can afford as you can afford it... Use your tax return money or buy an ounce here or there... I know guys who trade other stuff for PMs.
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Old 01-13-2020, 8:42 PM
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Interesting never heard of a mixed bar.
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Old 01-13-2020, 9:16 PM
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I know all the gold and silver experts have heard of this product before but I found it interesting in a utilitarian type of way although I'm sure they make you pay extra for the convenience of breakaway Swiss made gold and silver mini bars. ...



https://youtu.be/-B8ZHDsorms

By my way of thinking there will be basically two types of emergencies, one where the government is stable enough to bring back things in a matter of weeks, hopefully/ maybe even less than that.

The other is some type of bigger world crisis, where no one's coming to help you out anytime soon and in neither of those two circumstances would I really be anxious to go out (away from my secure, well known surroundings) to be trading gold for things I need.
As someone mentioned above it's better to have beans/food and freshwater.
and maybe the metal you should be most concerned with is lead from bullets and a nice steel rifle barrel if it's the second type of scenario.
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Old 01-13-2020, 9:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 870classic View Post
..... Beans, bacon, band-aids and bullets should be near the top of your list before silver.
.....

Ask yourself what would you buy with the silver, (or gold) in a SHTF situation?

....
I'm no preppier....but this makes a lot of sense. Why would anyone want gold or silver? You can't eat or drink it.

Water, Mountain house and ammo....it would be nice to have fuel, hard to store that longterm.
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  #13  
Old 01-14-2020, 5:08 AM
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Originally Posted by sealocan View Post
I know all the gold and silver experts have heard of this product before but I found it interesting in a utilitarian type of way although I'm sure they make you pay extra for the convenience of breakaway Swiss made gold and silver mini bars. ...
...
$32.5928/oz is a little steep for Valcambi 1-gram break-aways w/silver spot being $17.74 right now (that's 83% over spot, or ~$14.8528/oz OVER spot, AKA "markup").

Although novelty collectables such as Zombucks (entire set of silver Zombucks is currently selling on eBay w/out display-case for 25.50/each), or Silver Bullet/Shield might be collectable at this price... if one is willing, but I wouldn't stack mostly novelties, unless spot and price over spot was at a, say a 10-year low... of which I got a tube+ of Zombucks when it was near there. However a novelty SB/SS 1oz silver Slave Queen proof can be had @~$50.

I actually got some 1-gram, 1/10oz, 1/4oz, 1/2oz, and other similar fractional-silver near spot from a shop, and cleaned them out of fractional one time when out of state for the same price/oz as rounds. Most local shops I have been to do not charge a premium for fractional, as it is 2nd-hand, the OG buyer payed the initial markup, and probably didn't get it back when selling...
YOU don't have to pay the fractional premium this way.

Generally I won't pay over $20/oz including tax, so I like low-premium stuff, and/as I am not looking to sell it anytime soon.

Last I checked, Constitutional silver (AKA junk) was going for $14 for $1 value, if not Morgans, or Peace Dollars.
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  #14  
Old 01-14-2020, 10:33 AM
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https://www.ebay.com/itm/Royal-Canad...sAAOSwRqleE322

My favorite set of coins. At about $216 right now for a 10 ounce set. That is a few bucks over spot but with $200 Canadian face value you have a little protection if silver goes to $6 again.
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Old 01-14-2020, 2:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sealocan View Post
I know all the gold and silver experts have heard of this product before but I found it interesting in a utilitarian type of way although I'm sure they make you pay extra for the convenience of breakaway Swiss made gold and silver mini bars. ...



https://youtu.be/-B8ZHDsorms

By my way of thinking there will be basically two types of emergencies, one where the government is stable enough to bring back things in a matter of weeks, hopefully/ maybe even less than that.

The other is some type of bigger world crisis, where no one's coming to help you out anytime soon and in neither of those two circumstances would I really be anxious to go out (away from my secure, well known surroundings) to be trading gold for things I need.
As someone mentioned above it's better to have beans/food and freshwater.
and maybe the metal you should be most concerned with is lead from bullets and a nice steel rifle barrel if it's the second type of scenario.
I've posed this thought before and got some reasonable thought provoking responses... but I STILL question the idea the precious metals will be very utilitarian in a major crisis (your 2nd scenario).

In a functioning society, gold has value because there is a market for it. There is a market for it because some currencies are based on it and there are various uses for it that only gold can fulfill.... But if society breaks down in a huge way, and currencies are all trashed, AND THE INDUSTRIES THAT NEED GOLD FOR WHATEVER REASON ARE TOTALLY INOPERATIVE (there are no people able to make use of gold for anything other than baubles).... then what good does gold do you?

I still kinda believe that in today's society, where the individual is SO FAR removed from industry.... gold will be pretty much useless. I kinda think if you try to bribe your way past a roadblock with gold, the people manning it are gonna toss it in a ditch say "how am I gonna eat or have sex with this? NOW, let's talk about how much food you got in that car..."

At least, that would be my thinking if I turned into a "baddie" and started shaking people down. "Gold? What the heck am I gonna do with this, take it to the dentist and have them do some fillings? Come back with some cliff bars and water if you want to drive down my street".

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Old 01-14-2020, 2:53 PM
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Originally Posted by harbormaster View Post
How much silver bullion would you have for SHTF scenarios? Is there a limit such as all you can afford, or is a set amount like 20 or 100 ounces enough?

The size/value difference between gold and silver is huge. Could be that silver has a greater upside ... I don't know. But storing large amounts of silver is clearly a pain that gold mitigates against.
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Old 01-14-2020, 3:49 PM
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Silver and gold are feel good preps. Most people will not know what it is nor have a use for it. Better off buying ammo food fuel water.
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Old 01-14-2020, 4:53 PM
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I only have one reservation concerning trading ammo for other items, after the trade is finished the other person may feel inclined to SHOOT it back at you and proceed to take by force whatever you have left. I am not a fear monger, just letting others know the risks involved in SHTF situations.

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Old 01-14-2020, 8:16 PM
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Gold and silver have always had "value" and I think that would hold true even if there's society problems. I prefer silver if you expect to have to trade for things with it. Nobody is going to give you $1000 worth of food for your one gold coin. But you might get $10 or $20 worth of something for a silver coin. Though also I don't think many people would care what the "silver content" of an old quarter is, it's still an old quarter, worth $.25. I don't like junk coins for this purpose either. For me gold only has value as investment where I expect there's still a market to sell higher than I bought. Not for preps.
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Old 01-15-2020, 8:56 AM
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This is a question / comment posted often I've read on other prepper forums. One thing I've noticed is that those who believe in bullets and beans generally don't have precious metals at all - why they even comment on them I'm not sure. Obviously there are prepared persons that do believe in them.

When I see this question - underlined your quote - I think how is it Gold or Silver can be valuable. One thought that comes to mind is in the barter for bigger items. For example if 90% of the population is gone I have control over a lot of boats. I'm not giving one up for bread, and with boats means I have all the water I need. If someone offered me guns or ammo for a boat that'd be kind of stupid since they'd be sitting ducks leaving the marina. I can imagine accepting gold and silver in exchange for such property. I can also see paying people in gold and silver for their work / labor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Usmc0844spare View Post
I've posed this thought before and got some reasonable thought provoking responses... but I STILL question the idea the precious metals will be very utilitarian in a major crisis (your 2nd scenario).

In a functioning society, gold has value because there is a market for it. There is a market for it because some currencies are based on it and there are various uses for it that only gold can fulfill.... But if society breaks down in a huge way, and currencies are all trashed, AND THE INDUSTRIES THAT NEED GOLD FOR WHATEVER REASON ARE TOTALLY INOPERATIVE (there are no people able to make use of gold for anything other than baubles).... then what good does gold do you?

I still kinda believe that in today's society, where the individual is SO FAR removed from industry.... gold will be pretty much useless. I kinda think if you try to bribe your way past a roadblock with gold, the people manning it are gonna toss it in a ditch say "how am I gonna eat or have sex with this? NOW, let's talk about how much food you got in that car..."

At least, that would be my thinking if I turned into a "baddie" and started shaking people down. "Gold? What the heck am I gonna do with this, take it to the dentist and have them do some fillings? Come back with some cliff bars and water if you want to drive down my street".
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Old 01-15-2020, 9:37 AM
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Gold and silver had value long before any industry needed them. They are known worldwide as rare and valuable items and have been used as money for thousands of years. They have intrinsic value.

At the beginning of a SHTF scenario, it's true that people will immediately be concerned with the basics for survival. If you can trade beans for some of your neighbor's rice, that's great.

Eventually things will begin to normalize. It may not be the normal we were used to, maybe a new normal, but you will need some type of medium of exchange or currency. It either becomes impractical or inefficient to barter directly for everything. You want to trade your beans for rice, but your neighbor doesn't want beans. He knows a guy who has eggs that he wants , but that guy doesn't want his rice. Many people are going to have nothing to offer other than their labor, and eventually they'll need more than rice, beans, or eggs as payment for their labor. If the government has gone down or its future is questionable, the government backed fiat currency will have no value, or a greatly diminished value as people will lose confidence in the government's ability to guarantee the currency. If you don't understand the difference between money and fiat currency, look it up.

If a currency was suddenly dissolved or devalued, gold or silver could be exchanged easily for another currency.

If you needed to escape to another country or region where your currency had no value, a few ounces of gold would allow you to carry a great deal of wealth with you. Gold has an advantage in this regard as you would currently need to carry 86 ounces of silver for every one ounce of silver. Portability gives an advantage to gold. If you need to buy a loaf of bread or a carton of eggs, fractional silver would be advantageous. Nobody would want to make change on an ounce of gold when a silver dime could buy the item.

Those combibars are a neat idea, but they are way overpriced for the amount of metal you are buying. Junk silver (90% coinage) is a much better buy if you want fractional silver and it can be bought for a small premium over spot price.

I would think that anyone interested in prepping would try to cover as many bases as possible. I also find it disheartening to see so many comments of "as long as I have guns and ammo I can get anything I need.' People who have thought ahead to prepare for such events have likely prepared to defend as well.
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Old 01-15-2020, 9:57 AM
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'Junk' coins. And DEFINITELY not "ETFs," which are popcorn farts when the flag goes up.
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Old 01-15-2020, 11:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harbormaster View Post
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Royal-Canad...sAAOSwRqleE322

My favorite set of coins. At about $216 right now for a 10 ounce set. That is a few bucks over spot but with $200 Canadian face value you have a little protection if silver goes to $6 again.
I have seen a lot of fake coins... weight is pretty much dead on

they have tungsten in the center

without an Xray, its almost impossible to know
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Old 01-16-2020, 12:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Usmc0844spare View Post
I've posed this thought before and got some reasonable thought provoking responses... but I STILL question the idea the precious metals will be very utilitarian in a major crisis (your 2nd scenario).

In a functioning society, gold has value because there is a market for it. There is a market for it because some currencies are based on it and there are various uses for it that only gold can fulfill.... But if society breaks down in a huge way, and currencies are all trashed, AND THE INDUSTRIES THAT NEED GOLD FOR WHATEVER REASON ARE TOTALLY INOPERATIVE (there are no people able to make use of gold for anything other than baubles).... then what good does gold do you?

I still kinda believe that in today's society, where the individual is SO FAR removed from industry.... gold will be pretty much useless. I kinda think if you try to bribe your way past a roadblock with gold, the people manning it are gonna toss it in a ditch say "how am I gonna eat or have sex with this? NOW, let's talk about how much food you got in that car..."

At least, that would be my thinking if I turned into a "baddie" and started shaking people down. "Gold? What the heck am I gonna do with this, take it to the dentist and have them do some fillings? Come back with some cliff bars and water if you want to drive down my street".
You should read history. Gold and silver have ALWAYS been valuable. They always have and always will. They're shiny, people want them. Just like bullets, they are a hedge against bad times. They are a universally recognized symbol of wealth, value and trade. The world won't be Road Warrior forever and when it starts to rebuild, gold and silver will have value again. There will be folks that will recognize this even in a road warrior world and will take it in trade.
IMO precious metals will be valuable at the start of the collapse possibly during the depths of the collapse and definitely when things start rebuilding.

You can't offer an adversary "Plato o plombo" if you don't have the plato. If you can use it to buy your way out of trouble, why not?
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Old 01-16-2020, 2:11 PM
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I don't think you'd find a lot of takers for gold and silver in a real SHTF situation. There will be very few people prepared enough to even value something to sit around and look pretty.

You are as others pointed out much better off bartering food, water, ammo, and alcohol. Those will be the currency during a real SHTF scenario.
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Old 01-16-2020, 2:52 PM
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The debate about their worth is never going to end. Though I have concluded those who think they will be worthless because you can't eat them simply don't have any; those who think they will be saved thanks to them have probably too much.

I'm just curious what people think about how much to have (among those who think its a good thing to have)? For example I now have a 200k mortgage. I had thought it might be prudent to target 200 ounces for each $1k in debt. Then try for 400. In hyper inflation it wouldn't be impossible to assume silver going into the 100's an ounce.
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Old 01-16-2020, 3:16 PM
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Don't see the value in 200 years ago it was a soft metal that could easily be fashioned into useful items. I doubt there will be a shortage of pots and pans I can't recall thinking to my self that I need silver or gold.
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Old 01-16-2020, 3:30 PM
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What value do you think your paper money or wall street paper will have when the SHTF?
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Old 01-16-2020, 4:40 PM
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Originally Posted by AdamVIP View Post
I don't think you'd find a lot of takers for gold and silver in a real SHTF situation. There will be very few people prepared enough to even value something to sit around and look pretty.

You are as others pointed out much better off bartering food, water, ammo, and alcohol. Those will be the currency during a real SHTF scenario.
Yeah I seem to recall reading some piece on here from a guy who lived through the Yugoslavia stuff, and IIRC, a bottle of vodka went a long way.

I think it all boils down to what you are prepping for. I am not really prepping at all, but if I were to, it would be for a "The Road" scenario, not something that merely takes us back to the 1890s.

When IMMEDIATE survival is at stake for almost everyone, I just don't think precious metals are gonna do you any good...
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Old 01-16-2020, 5:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Usmc0844spare View Post
Yeah I seem to recall reading some piece on here from a guy who lived through the Yugoslavia stuff, and IIRC, a bottle of vodka went a long way.

I think it all boils down to what you are prepping for. I am not really prepping at all, but if I were to, it would be for a "The Road" scenario, not something that merely takes us back to the 1890s.

When IMMEDIATE survival is at stake for almost everyone, I just don't think precious metals are gonna do you any good...
And you may be absolutely right, OTOH it can't hurt to cover all your bets
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Old 01-16-2020, 11:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Usmc0844spare View Post
...At least, that would be my thinking if I turned into a "baddie" and started shaking people down. "Gold? What the heck am I gonna do with this, take it to the dentist and have them do some fillings? Come back with some cliff bars and water if you want to drive down my street".
I am SURE in the beginning PMs helped people leave Venezuela, SURE OF IT...
BUT I sure wouldn't talk about how I had $800 of PMs (via how many OZT) I had stacked...

Watch some YT full stack videos, and you'll be astounded...
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  #32  
Old 01-16-2020, 11:05 PM
thetruecheese thetruecheese is offline
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Silver?

what are we gonna do, make forks out of it?
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  #33  
Old 01-16-2020, 11:27 PM
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Silver?
what are we gonna do, make forks out of it?
AND STILL WORTH THEIR WEIGHT IN 925...
How any hundred years later, but OH, it has raised in price by how much?

"The price was fixed at ~ $1.30 per troy ounce during this period of the early 1800’s"


MOAR like fork-you...
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  #34  
Old 01-16-2020, 11:44 PM
tsmithson tsmithson is offline
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I’ve heard it said you want enough gold to bribe your way across the boarder if necessary.
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  #35  
Old 01-17-2020, 1:26 PM
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Default one purpose

That is a well reported purpose of precious metals. It was said many people managed to get out of Germany thanks to buying off guards and soldiers this way; I've even read an account of a German couple using their wedding rings including the diamonds to get out of Iran.

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I’ve heard it said you want enough gold to bribe your way across the boarder if necessary.
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  #36  
Old 01-17-2020, 1:28 PM
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Default $20 Gold Piece

Someone wrote that a Colt SAA in 1875 to 1885 was often sold for a $20 gold piece. Coincidentally such coins are valued today at about the retail sales price of a new factory Colt SAA. Just intriguing. I'm certain there has been some variation of those values over time.


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AND STILL WORTH THEIR WEIGHT IN 925...
How any hundred years later, but OH, it has raised in price by how much?

"The price was fixed at ~ $1.30 per troy ounce during this period of the early 1800’s"


MOAR like fork-you...
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  #37  
Old 01-19-2020, 10:16 AM
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the86d the86d is offline
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Someone wrote that a Colt SAA in 1875 to 1885 was often sold for a $20 gold piece. Coincidentally such coins are valued today at about the retail sales price of a new factory Colt SAA. Just intriguing. I'm certain there has been some variation of those values over time.
A gallon of gas (face-value then, vs. retail value of those same coins now, in Cali, before the new tax took effect), or a custom tailored suit could be purchased for the same amount of silver, or gold.
I haven't done the math recently, but remembered seeing an old newspaper (as wallpaper in a restaurant) where gas was the face-value/gl, equal to the price I paid for 90% dimes of the same face-amount.
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  #38  
Old 01-19-2020, 11:07 AM
vmonkey vmonkey is offline
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Originally Posted by the86d View Post
A gallon of gas (face-value then, vs. retail value of those same coins now, in Cali, before the new tax took effect), or a custom tailored suit could be purchased for the same amount of silver, or gold.
I haven't done the math recently, but remembered seeing an old newspaper (as wallpaper in a restaurant) where gas was the face-value/gl, equal to the price I paid for 90% dimes of the same face-amount.
The value of a silver quarter was equal to a gallon of gas. I had a formula in a spreadsheet that I used to inventory my collection and it was pretty close (like within 10%) a few years ago.

As of this morning, a pre-65 quarter is worth $3.26. The national avg for gas is $2.55/ga. CA is $3.52.
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Old 01-20-2020, 7:40 AM
AdamVIP AdamVIP is offline
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As a side note those break away silver pieces are pretty cool. If I were to get silver I would get those because at least they are a cool conversation piece and you can give them away to grand kids a piece at a time. Having a piggy bank filled with those would be pretty rad.
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Old 01-20-2020, 11:58 PM
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As a side note those break away silver pieces are pretty cool. If I were to get silver I would get those because at least they are a cool conversation piece and you can give them away to grand kids a piece at a time. Having a piggy bank filled with those would be pretty rad.
DIY:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Z2tWPxmwS8
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