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Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated Centerfire rifles, carbines and other gas operated rifles.

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  #41  
Old 05-04-2021, 8:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jarhead714 View Post
All’s I know is the dude that shows up to the range with an M1A and a sling is usually a better shot than the dude with the glassed AR10.
Unfortunately bringing the M1A and a sling doesn’t make one “that dude.” Its the Indian, not the arrow.
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  #42  
Old 05-04-2021, 8:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Pupulepeter View Post
Unfortunately bringing the M1A and a sling doesn’t make one “that dude.” Its the Indian, not the arrow.
Maybe it is just the sling, hahah. I have a cheap $10 sling on my Mini-14 and always sling up standing. It does wonders. I can squeeze every last one of those 4 MOA out of that beast.
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  #43  
Old 05-04-2021, 9:03 PM
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Top tier makes it a tossup. At that point it comes down to how many rounds you plan on firing and what quality of ammunition you put through it before a malfunction occurs.

Personally when it comes to either I'd prefer the M1A if I only plan on shooting with iron sights. The amount of work you need to put into an M1A to make it a long range shooting platform with glass on top makes it unjustifiable for me to select it for longer range shooting. If I want to put an optic on top and get good hits on targets out past 500/600 yards, hand me a well built AR-10 instead.
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  #44  
Old 05-04-2021, 9:10 PM
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Originally Posted by jarhead714 View Post
All’s I know is the dude that shows up to the range with an M1A and a sling is usually a better shot than the dude with the glassed AR10.
The age of the shooting coat is usually the biggest tell.
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  #45  
Old 05-04-2021, 10:19 PM
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No AR trigger is as good as the M1A.
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  #46  
Old 05-04-2021, 11:33 PM
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Originally Posted by sigstroker View Post
No AR trigger is as good as the M1A.
You have not felt my Jewel AR trigger...
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  #47  
Old 05-05-2021, 8:35 AM
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Originally Posted by sigstroker View Post
No AR trigger is as good as the M1A.
GI trigger in a run-of-the-mill LPK? Sure, but...

Geissele National Match Hi-Speed will rival any of the professionally tuned M1A triggers. Even the triggers on Springfield's SuperMatch don't compare to a decent NM trigger from LaRue or RockRiver Arms.
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  #48  
Old 05-05-2021, 11:08 AM
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Originally Posted by 67Cuda View Post
I have both. When it comes down to brass taxes, I'll leave home with the LR308.
"Get down to Brass Tacks", like stripping down furniture to the brass tacks holding the upholstery on, etc.
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  #49  
Old 05-05-2021, 2:51 PM
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I'd say the opposite with triggers. The cheapest drop in AR 2 stage will equal the best M1A aftermarket trigger. The Springfield M25 is probably the best, and still, a good geissele tuned trigger makes it feel generic.
It's the nature of the setup. The way the mainspring does everything makes it hard to get a nice crisp match trigger pull, near impossible to get one down to say 1.5lbs.
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  #50  
Old 05-05-2021, 3:05 PM
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Both are excellent rifles....

I see a bit of a different purpose of use for them....

the AR-10 in 308 or 6.5 CM is a fun and easy shooting rifle...

in my wonky view of the world- if shooting Iron Sights- both are sweet

If running optics, I would repeat my purchase of the AR10.

The newer AR-10, the Remington G2 that uses standard AR triggers and such seemed like a no brainer if not in CA and before Remington went bankrupt
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  #51  
Old 05-05-2021, 3:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ap3572001 View Post
How do the top tier M1A ( LRB or custom rifle build on LRB receiver) and AR-10 (LWRC , ETC) compare? If reliability is the MAIN or only consideration.
if reliability means more than anything, get a proven rifle that has gone through military testing.
not saying the military always chooses the right weapons, but they do the testing that we can't afford to do.

lots of people build AR-10s and most of them say they work great.
lots of people buy them off the shelf and say they work great.
but there are lots "my AR-10 doesn't run properly" threads across the wan.
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  #52  
Old 05-06-2021, 8:19 AM
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Trigger and hammer improvements are available for the accuracy built M1A, the Radar adjustable trigger that came standard in SAI's Blackfeather rifle can safely be adjusted down to 2 lbs., ShootingSight's adjustable trigger and speed hammer offer both sub-3 lbs. adjustability and faster lock time.

Radar adjustable trigger


ShootingSight's adjustable trigger and speed hammer


I use a modified Radar trigger with a ShootingSight speed hammer in my rear-lugged LBR M25 built by the late Roland Beaver, the barrel was turned by Roland using a Douglas Premium 7mm chrome moly blank and chambered in 7mm-08 Rem.





Shoots sub-MOA all day with very light recoil

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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrewN View Post



Ca legal M1A muzzle device for illustration.
Through testing various M1A/M14 muzzle devices I have found that the SAI comp. you pictured shoots more accurately than the USGI flash suppressor, I've also found that Smith Enterprise's National Match comp. shoots more accurately than the SAI comp..

SEI's National Match comp.


But neither shoots as accurately as JP Enterprise's Tanker recoil eliminator that they no longer make for the M1A

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  #53  
Old 05-06-2021, 9:38 AM
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"pick up only 1 rifle and run to the woods the apocalypse has begun!" would you take either of them out?
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  #54  
Old 05-06-2021, 9:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theLBC View Post
if reliability means more than anything, get a proven rifle that has gone through military testing.
not saying the military always chooses the right weapons, but they do the testing that we can't afford to do.

lots of people build AR-10s and most of them say they work great.
lots of people buy them off the shelf and say they work great.
but there are lots "my AR-10 doesn't run properly" threads across the wan.
This for sure
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  #55  
Old 05-06-2021, 10:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Pupulepeter View Post
Unfortunately bringing the M1A and a sling doesn’t make one “that dude.” Its the Indian, not the arrow.
Indians don't use plastic arrows. Just saying.
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  #56  
Old 05-06-2021, 10:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doublescheck View Post
"pick up only 1 rifle and run to the woods the apocalypse has begun!" would you take either of them out?
Yes, my JRA/Rock-Ola Scout w/a Bula 19.5" chrome lined barrel, USO 1-8X ranging illuminated horseshoe reticle mounted on an A.R.M.S. mount and QD rings in a USGI FG stock, a solid 1 MOA battle rifle with my handloads

Right back at you...

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  #57  
Old 05-06-2021, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by MeatyMac View Post
Yes, my JRA/Rock-Ola Scout w/a Bula 19.5" chrome lined barrel, USO 1-8X ranging illuminated horseshoe reticle mounted on an A.R.M.S. mount and QD rings in a USGI FG stock, a solid 1 MOA battle rifle with my handloads

Right back at you...

Gorgeous rifle. Nice home office too.
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  #58  
Old 05-06-2021, 1:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theLBC View Post
if reliability means more than anything, get a proven rifle that has gone through military testing.
not saying the military always chooses the right weapons, but they do the testing that we can't afford to do.

lots of people build AR-10s and most of them say they work great.
lots of people buy them off the shelf and say they work great.
but there are lots "my AR-10 doesn't run properly" threads across the wan.

The M14 rifles were hammered on by testing.
M14 Rifle History and Development By Lee Emerson
Quote:
M14 Rifle Factory Inspection
The following describes the requirements each M14 rifle had to pass before it could be
shipped to the military. The M14 rifle was tested by first firing a high pressure 67,500 psi
proof round. The rifle and spent cartridge case were examined for any signs of broken
parts and overpressure. If the test was successful, the proof P marks were immediately
applied to the barrel (P), bolt (a punch mark), stock (P inside a circle or serif P inside a
circle) and receiver (punch mark). Winchester M14 barrels have been observed with the
letters P and W inside an oval for the proof marking.
The proof test was followed by function tests in semi-automatic, burst automatic, and
sustained automatic fire. The rate of fire in automatic had to be within a specified range.
This range is 650 to 780 rounds per minute according to Military Specification MIL-R-
45012E. Each rifle was required to deliver its center of impact within a specified limited
area around the point of aim at 100 yards with the rear sight set at eight clicks up from
bottom and at zero windage. Every rifle had to group within 5.6 " at 100 yards with five
rounds of M80 ball ammunition. Additionally, M14 rifles were tested for tightness of barrel
draw, acceptable headspace, firing pin indentation and trigger pull force. The military
specification for the amount of trigger pull force is 5.5 to 7.5 pounds for the M14 and 4.5
to 6 pounds for the M14 NM. If the rifle failed, it was tagged to record what the particular
problems were. The manufacturer replaced the parts and sent it through the entire
inspection process again. Most rifles passed the testing the second time around. The
information noted on the tags was recorded and used to analyze the manufacturing
process to determine what needed correction.
While a five shot group of 5.6 " at 100 yards may not seem terribly accurate, this includes
the inaccuracy of the M80 ball ammunition factored in. The Boston Ordnance District was
responsible for final acceptance of M14 rifles manufactured by Harrington & Richardson
and Winchester. By Fiscal Year 1962, it had conducted a study into the factory accuracy
testing rejection rate of M14 rifles. 2 The Boston Ordnance District discovered that the
M80 ball ammunition of itself had an average spread of 3.57 " at 100 yards within every
ninety rounds fired. Ammunition inconsistency aside, a rack grade M14 type rifle is
accurate for a battle rifle when properly assembled.
In addition to test firing, which every rifle went through, M14 rifles were pulled out at given
intervals and subjected to endurance firing for 6000 rounds. One M14 rifle and twelve
magazines were selected by a U. S. government representative out of each of the first
five lots of 500 rifles at the factory. If each of the five selected rifles passed the
endurance test, then the endurance test samples were selected at a rate of one for 2500
rifles produced. This endurance test sampling rate was performed for five lots of 2500
rifles. If these next five rifles all passed the 6000 round endurance test then the
endurance sampling rate was upped to one test rifle every 5000 rifles produced.
The 6000 round endurance test was conducted as follows. The rifle was fired first in
semi-automatic for 100 rounds followed by five round bursts for another 100 rounds.
Then five full magazines were each emptied in automatic with one pull of the trigger for
each magazine. The magazines were rotated for even use and the rate of fire was
measured during one of the twenty round bursts. The barrel was allowed to cool to
ambient after each 100 rounds. The rifle was cleaned and lubricated every 1000 rounds.
No cleaning of the gas system was allowed. This procedure was repeated until 6000
rounds had been fired.
Only a small fraction of any kind of failure was allowed in the endurance test. The
endurance test allowed no more than twelve malfunctions and no more than two
unserviceable parts. The allowable malfunctions and associated instances were as
follows: 1) bolt failed to lock into battery – three 2) bolt lock failed to hold the bolt open –
one 3) cartridge case failed to eject – one 4) a cartridge that was visible failed to feed –
four 5) a cartridge not visible failed to feed – three 5) failure to fire in semi-automatic –
three 6) light primer strike – three and 7) punctured primer – one. If any one malfunction
occurred more than the allowed number of times or if the total number of malfunctions
was more than twelve, the rifle did not pass the endurance test.
No unserviceable parts were allowed in the first 3000 rounds. The allowable
unserviceable parts and associated instances for the second 3000 rounds of testing were
as follows: 1) ejector – one 2) ejector spring – one 3) extractor – one 4) extractor spring –
one 5) firing pin – one. If any one part broke more than once or if there were more than
two unserviceable parts, the rifle failed the endurance test. Some of the M14 rifles
completed the 6000 round endurance with no malfunctions or unserviceable parts.
Ten M14 rifles selected by a U. S. government representative from each inspection lot
were also tested for parts interchangeability. If more than one contractor was producing
M14 rifles at the same time, each contractor submitted six specimens each month for
parts interchangeability with parts made by the other contractor.
After completion of all firing tests, each bolt assembly was examined by magnetic particle
inspection for cracks, seams and other injurious defects. If the bolt passed examination,
the bolt was marked with the letter M. The bolt assembly was then cleaned, the roller
repacked with grease and the rifle reassembled. Every rifle was given a final and
thorough visual examination before preservation and packaging. Sample M14 rifles were
tested for cleanliness before packing and the packaging tested for vacuum retention.
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  #59  
Old 05-06-2021, 1:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hermosabeach View Post
The newer AR-10, the Remington G2 that uses standard AR triggers and such seemed like a no brainer if not in CA and before Remington went bankrupt
That was the DPMS G2.
DPMS was bought out by Remington a few years before Remington went bankrupt.
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  #60  
Old 05-06-2021, 1:56 PM
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Originally Posted by MeatyMac View Post
But neither shoots as accurately as JP Enterprise's Tanker recoil eliminator that they no longer make for the M1A

These can still be put together by taking an M1a brake and cutting it shorter, threading the front of the M1a brake forward of the sight dovetail and then threading on a JP tank brake.
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  #61  
Old 05-06-2021, 2:00 PM
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Reliability, accuracy, runs cooler, but rare and expensive magazines - M1A

Ergonomics, accuracy, runs hotter if direct impingement, abundance of cheaper mags (Magpul) - AR10/SR25

*Be sure it is chambered to handle the pressures of civilian ammo .308, because the 7.62 NATO has a thicker shell casing and lower chamber pressures. A chamber in 7.62 NATO that can handle .308 is the way to go. Note that some .308's (M1A) have a tighter throat, so you may run into functionality problems with the thicker shell casings of the 7.62 NATO... However, some M1A companies like Fulton Armory & Springfield say .308 on the barrel, but the manufacturers actually built them to accommodate for the thicker shell casing of the 7.62 NATO, and will say so on the website and owner's manual.

If you could have only 1 and money is not an issue, a nice M1A on a forged rear lug receiver is the ticket in my opinion. I like my M1A more than my LMT MWS. Then again, I am a rifleman.

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Old 05-06-2021, 2:25 PM
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Reliability, accuracy, runs cooler, but rare and expensive magazines - M1A
RARE and expensive mags? For what they are (tank tough heavy metal) $25 for CMI seems cheap to me. Did they dry up? They used to be everywhere. TOP QUALITY 762 mags for less than thirty? Sounds like a deal.
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Old 05-06-2021, 2:57 PM
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Originally Posted by crufflers View Post
RARE and expensive mags? For what they are (tank tough heavy metal) $25 for CMI seems cheap to me. Did they dry up? They used to be everywhere. TOP QUALITY 762 mags for less than thirty? Sounds like a deal.
Yep, CMI's run better than USGI mags too IMHO, even the 30-rds. CMI mags run good.
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Old 05-06-2021, 3:09 PM
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Originally Posted by vf111 View Post
Lots of GI's in the 40's and 50's will say you're wrong
And 60’s... There were a lot of M-14s in Nam... I have shot my 50,xxx SA M1A for over 20 years. A lot in dirty windy desert conditions. Never a failure of any kind.Never found dirt in the trigger group either. I far prefer this to any AR platform, but to each their own.
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Old 05-06-2021, 3:22 PM
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Gorgeous rifle. Nice home office too.
Thanks, C...That one came together soo sweet and shoots lights out using 155gr. Nosler Custom Comps over 43.0grs. of IMR-4064, 210M's and Federal cases. I hardly put much work into it, lightly lapped the Bula/Rock-Ola bolt for a median head space so I could run 7.62 NATO or .308 Win., shimmed the gas cylinder, did a 3.5lbs. trigger job, added a little Devcon to the stock at the rear trigger housing pad to increase the draw pressure and played with a few pistons for the best groups. The USO scope's reticle matches the above load perfectly out to 600 yards, point and play, it's a fun and fast one to shoot known distance targets.

Here's a group I shot using the above load with WLR primers, when I switched to the 210M's it got a little better and the occasional flyer disappeared.

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Old 05-06-2021, 4:54 PM
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Originally Posted by crufflers View Post
RARE and expensive mags? For what they are (tank tough heavy metal) $25 for CMI seems cheap to me. Did they dry up? They used to be everywhere. TOP QUALITY 762 mags for less than thirty? Sounds like a deal.
Checkmate is completely out of stock on anything over 5rds , seems like slim pickings today in CA.
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  #67  
Old 05-06-2021, 5:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ap3572001 View Post
How do the top tier M1A ( LRB or custom rifle build on LRB receiver) and AR-10 (LWRC , ETC) compare? If reliability is the MAIN or only consideration.
Get a quality AR-10 or whatever over a civilian M-14.
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  #68  
Old 05-06-2021, 8:12 PM
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On second thought, everyone is wrong. The obvious answer is get both. Then get a G3 and FAL to complete the set 🤔
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Old 05-06-2021, 8:35 PM
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Quote:
The M14 rifles were hammered on by testing.
M14 Rifle History and Development By Lee Emerson
Excellent post.
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Old 05-06-2021, 11:53 PM
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Originally Posted by saki302 View Post
On second thought, everyone is wrong.
The obvious answer is get both.
Then get a G3 and FAL to complete the set 🤔
No 7.62x51 Saiga or Vepr or Galil love?
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Barrel, sight and trigger work on most pistols and shotguns.
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  #71  
Old 05-07-2021, 12:55 AM
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crufflers crufflers is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doublescheck View Post
Checkmate is completely out of stock on anything over 5rds , seems like slim pickings today in CA.
So they ARE all of a sudden rare and expensive? Nah. The ten round CMI's will be back someday for $22 or whatever the usually cost. It is not a normal period in our history right now. Have you seen the price of gas and ammunition? Can you find a Glock? If you really want them, Springfield has them at their usual mark up.
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  #72  
Old 05-07-2021, 2:49 AM
jarhead714 jarhead714 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
No 7.62x51 Saiga or Vepr or Galil love?
No, we like nice sights and we don’t like 10 pound rifles chambered in 5.56.
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  #73  
Old 05-07-2021, 3:01 AM
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Atlantic Firearms Atlantic Firearms is offline
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I've wanted to purchase one from you guys. Are you able to make it california compliant
We have 10 round mags on order and are just waiting for those to arrive , We also are working on a muzzle brake for the M1A Rifle series .Hope to see these California Legal M14 Rifle kits soon !
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  #74  
Old 05-07-2021, 3:36 AM
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MeatyMac MeatyMac is offline
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So many flavors it's hard to choose just one...I'd suggest several

Gunworks of Lower Alabama #64 SOCOM16



.

Fulton Armory M14 Peerless NM 'Service Rifle' for NRA Highpower

.

Springfield M1A Scout Squad

.

Jon Wolfe ModFib Scout

.

JRA/Rock-Ola TRW tribute rifle


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LRB HRA tribute rifle

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M14 40-mm Grenade Launcher - Springfield Armory NHS


.
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  #75  
Old 05-07-2021, 7:55 AM
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FeuerFrei FeuerFrei is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mojaveman View Post
Excellent post.
Check out my earlier post. #5 linkage is there, pdf doc with ALL the info.

The author flipped over a lot of rocks and dug deep for the data.
Very comprehensive.
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  #76  
Old 05-07-2021, 9:04 AM
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fmunk fmunk is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ap3572001 View Post
How do the top tier M1A (LRB or custom rifle build on LRB receiver) and AR-10 (LWRC , ETC) compare? If reliability is the MAIN or only consideration.
The only consideration should be what you'll be using it for. If with magnified optics for medium to long range shooting, AR10/SR25 all day long. If not, either. Pick whichever tickles your G-spot. AR/SR has evolved to be far more modular and versatile. Unlike the much older design of the M1A, optic mounting is not an after-thought. And IMO, why bother buying a .308 rifle if you're not intending to reach out and slap a gong? As I see it, the only reason to lean towards the M1A is for reasons of nostalgia (nothing wrong with that).

So ask yourself what you want out of a battle rifle instead.
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