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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #41  
Old 01-15-2020, 5:57 PM
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Originally Posted by CAL.BAR View Post
Everyone TALKS a great game, but NO ONE actually DOES IT. You see, the great founders could defy the might of the most powerful empire in the world, but the source of that power was 3 THOUSAND miles and two months sailing away! It's quite a different thing when the authority you are resisting can be at your front door at any time day or night in 15 minutes! We really NEED to knock off the hollow rhetoric and be realistic in these endeavors. Our ONLY recourse is with the courts.
People do ignore the law, they just don't go flaunting it on the internet 99.9% of the time.

I am sure there are hundreds of thousands or even millions of 10/30, 10/15, "rebuild kits", or mags that had their rivets drilled out or spring/mag block changed in the past few years alone, but no one is going to admit to a felony while living in a jurisdiction who would love to prosecute them for it.

I'd also be willing to bet there are quite a few calguners who took a pistol receiver and put in on a rifle lower just to see what an SBR felt like in the privacy of their own home.
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  #42  
Old 01-15-2020, 6:17 PM
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Originally Posted by -hanko View Post
I hate it a lot more when I see Californians doing nothing but stewing in the pot.
What pot am I stewing?? I'm IN THE POT, not outside of it.

The only pot stewing that's going on are a bunch of ex-CA people who are demanding that who's left fight the fight regardless of the consequences to US, not them. That's like Jews who fled Nazi Germany and then said 'all you folks in the ghetto outta fight your way out, so we can come back home'.

I'm only the messenger, and that's what the message is.
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  #43  
Old 01-15-2020, 6:23 PM
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Originally Posted by yacko View Post
I don't believe for a second that groups of people with signs and chanting or whatever do **ANYTHING AT ALL** to enact ANY kind of change what so ever.

Honestly... The people you are protesting at/about... are just laughing at you the whole time.

It is completely meaningless and ineffectual and a total waste of time.

Though it *might* make you feel better about yourself- since you can claim you "did something"?

Net effect...
Zero change-
You wasted several hours of your time.
Except maybe:

Getting you arrested
Getting attacked by ANTIFA
Losing your 2A right while wrongly accused
Getting RF'd
Getting labeled as Militia or Anti-Government
Getting caught in crossfire

Another question:

WHY SHOULD WE HAVE TO PROTEST TO KEEP A GOD GIVEN RIGHT WE ALL HAVE
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  #44  
Old 01-15-2020, 7:00 PM
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Originally Posted by TheGood View Post
What pot am I stewing?? I'm IN THE POT, not outside of it.

The only pot stewing that's going on are a bunch of ex-CA people who are demanding that who's left fight the fight regardless of the consequences to US, not them. That's like Jews who fled Nazi Germany and then said 'all you folks in the ghetto outta fight your way out, so we can come back home'.

I'm only the messenger, and that's what the message is.
I and family have been Ex-CA people for more than 30 years...

No way have I or would I ever suggest that Californians "fight the fight"...

A "fight" suggests there would be a winner and a loser...the ongoing outcome was crystal clear 20 years ago. There's no more fight...just a large bulldozer. As to YOUR consequences, that's up to you.
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  #45  
Old 01-15-2020, 8:26 PM
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Originally Posted by CitaDeL View Post
Choose what you value more, your liberty or your vocation.

It is possible to balance both, if you aren't a loudmouth.
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Originally Posted by wireless View Post
People do ignore the law, they just don't go flaunting it on the internet 99.9% of the time.

I am sure there are hundreds of thousands or even millions of 10/30, 10/15, "rebuild kits", or mags that had their rivets drilled out or spring/mag block changed in the past few years alone, but no one is going to admit to a felony while living in a jurisdiction who would love to prosecute them for it.

I'd also be willing to bet there are quite a few calguners who took a pistol receiver and put in on a rifle lower just to see what an SBR felt like in the privacy of their own home.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGood View Post
What pot am I stewing?? I'm IN THE POT, not outside of it.

The only pot stewing that's going on are a bunch of ex-CA people who are demanding that who's left fight the fight regardless of the consequences to US, not them. That's like Jews who fled Nazi Germany and then said 'all you folks in the ghetto outta fight your way out, so we can come back home'.

I'm only the messenger, and that's what the message is.
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Originally Posted by -hanko View Post
I and family have been Ex-CA people for more than 30 years...

No way have I or would I ever suggest that Californians "fight the fight"...

A "fight" suggests there would be a winner and a loser...the ongoing outcome was crystal clear 20 years ago. There's no more fight...just a large bulldozer. As to YOUR consequences, that's up to you.
These four posts allude to the gist of the situation for most "California" gun owners. The choice to leave, for many, isn't an option, for a variety of reasons. For all the imprecations proffered about choosing between freedom and subservience, I honestly don't know many who would choose between "their guns" and "their family" when it comes to elderly parents, medical care for a family member, making a living to support their family, etc. Perhaps those who've left can, but many cannot and affording a new home in another State, finding accommodations for family, even finding a new job in their profession which would allow a wage which would allow for a 'new start' is not an "equal opportunity for all" situation.

Many who stay behind, do so, not because they loathe liberty or are complicit in removing fundamental rights or solely because they can surf and ski in the same day, but because they have not found a door or window of opportunity which provides them a viable choice. As a result, they "fight," just not in open skirmishes in that they are far outnumbered at the ballot box; i.e., it would be akin to skirmish lines where you form a squad and they form a platoon, form a platoon and they line up a battalion, etc.

It's not about low odds, it's about not being able to offset 'enough of them' before going down to make such efforts meaningful. Okay. You voted. To what end? This is what Prop 63 demonstrated to many. 5.1 million of us voted "No;" but, 8.7 million of them voted "Yes." That imbalance was reinforced in 2018 with Newsom's election; with 7.7 million voting for Newsom and 4.7 million voting for Cox. (I doubt many gun owners voted for Newsom, despite the 'disappointment' surrounding the nomination of Cox for many.)

As a result, comparisons to the Revolutionary War are a bit... 'off.' Sure. Those who remain could attempt to fight an open, guerrilla war; hiding behind rocks/trees, sniping at those who attempt to enforce what are perceived as unconstitutional laws. But, this isn't the 1770's, even with the comparison of small percentages actually pulling the trigger. It's about even more than this...

Quote:
Originally Posted by CAL.BAR View Post
Everyone TALKS a great game, but NO ONE actually DOES IT. You see, the great founders could defy the might of the most powerful empire in the world, but the source of that power was 3 THOUSAND miles and two months sailing away! It's quite a different thing when the authority you are resisting can be at your front door at any time day or night in 15 minutes! We really NEED to knock off the hollow rhetoric and be realistic in these endeavors. Our ONLY recourse is with the courts.
It's about how technology and the infrastructure of today's society (including red flag laws; see something, say something; the speed of communications; the ability/speed of tracking and controlling communications, transactions, and similar; etc.) has now provided those you are resisting with a disproportionate edge beyond their numbers and proximity. Add to this the 'rehearsal' in the application of those technologies in places such as Afghanistan and Iraq. At some point, you begin to recognize that "open resistance" is just the quick path to "no open resistance;" kinda like the open carry movement quickly precipitated no open carry laws, which, when coupled with the lack of availability for many of concealed carry permits equated to no carry.

So... Those who 'remain' (whether their rationale is deemed 'acceptable' or not) often 'fight' as a quiet (not necessarily synonymous with 'quiescent') resistance. They file lawsuits (not ALL of which are ultimately doomed, even if it does seem that way). They quietly exercise varying levels of compliance with the law; but, don't necessarily chest pound on Internet forums, daring the authorities to 'come get 'em,' all the while hoping the man doesn't find 'em and 'discover' a prosecutable gap in their level compliance. They stockpile guns and ammo without running to the neighbor or forum to say how they discovered a 'sale' at Walmart and just dropped "$XXXX" on this type of ammo, then 'challenging' others to do similarly.

Some of those are the very people you shoot next to at the range, with their compliant rifles that you scoff at because they are 'registered' or featureless or fixed magazine or not a so-called 'assault weapon.' Some of them are hunters or single-action/cowboy shooters who actually 'agree' with YOU and didn't sell anyone out; but, still participate in those activities because they enjoy them and have every right to even if you abhor the 'groups' which DID, openly and deliberately, 'trade' some of 'our' rights to preserve the rights of their members. (Kinda like the unions who work against the interests of most and blaming union members who have no choice as to being a member if they want to work in that profession in this State, but often opt to have their dues donated elsewhere rather than given directly to the union.)

In other words, it's more akin to 'resistance' rather than 'rebellion' in that those who remain understand that any, flagrant rebellion would be quickly quashed; allowing 'enemy forces' to be moved, en masse, to the next target of opportunity - perhaps the place you chose to 'retreat' to. Whereas a resistance has little chance of overcoming the forces arrayed against them by itself, it does have the 'glamour' of surviving to fight another day, when something has changed sufficiently to allow a more open push with an actual chance to succeed. It also provides the tangential 'benefits' of tying down 'the enemy's' personnel and resources, to whatever degree, setting useful precedents of some kind when and where it can, and generally being a pain in the arse to those allied against us... which, in some instances, causes sufficient irritation to create overreach which is a vulnerability that can be exploited.

As I've said, there are many ways to fight. Each to their own abilities and circumstances.
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  #46  
Old 01-15-2020, 10:37 PM
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^^^^^ very well put.
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  #47  
Old 01-15-2020, 10:48 PM
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^^^^^^Exactly.
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  #48  
Old 01-16-2020, 2:29 AM
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^^^ Yes.
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  #49  
Old 01-16-2020, 5:54 AM
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A lot of voices/opinions, this seems timely, it was published just 16 hours ago...

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  #50  
Old 01-16-2020, 7:28 AM
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It's been said that in places like California, law abiding gun owners are their own worst enemy...
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  #51  
Old 01-16-2020, 8:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Titania View Post
I realize that a lot of people are rightfully hesitant to speak of things, but the whole "refusing to comply" hit a new tier after the bullet button ARs went away. It might not be open or "in your face" but it's definitely there. Maybe it's not an experience shared by everyone, but from my own view, I don't know anyone who is actually compliant with the law anymore (except myself and you fine folks, of course).

It's like taxes. You push people to a point and then people stop caring and stop abiding or they go out of their way to avoid it. I think California already crossed that bridge with gun laws. Two months ago I was at the range and someone was shooting an AR SBR with 30 round magazines (yes it had a stock and not a brace). This is the second time in a year someone was at the range with an SBR. Not counting the number of people who just show up with their ARs with every evil feature. No one says anything. No one cares. I can't remember a time during the bullet button days I went to the range and saw people with non-CA legal items. Now it's literally every time.

Slightly shifting gears now but I think the difference between California and Virginia is largely the result of the speed of change. California eroded rights slowly whereas Virginia just decided to throw caution to the wind and go for Gold. Also plenty of people just abandoned California when it hit the tipping point. This just created a snowball effect. Worse still, because everyone is so demoralized, people don't even bother showing up and voting because they don't believe it can bring change. There's still plenty of non-progressives in the state. It's just they're all demoralized and hold defeatist attitudes.

On the other hand, I have heard of incidents where shooters on commiefornia gun ranges called the police because other shooters had scawy black rifles..........and the police came and harassed and feature checked them.

The last place I would go with my “real” AR is a public range or blm

That said......any jbt police officer that would feature check your gun and / or confiscate it is a disgrace to the uniform, should be identified and publicised with their family at their home address and shunned. THEY LIED WHEN THEY SWORE THEIR OATH........they are DOMESTIC ENEMIES.
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  #52  
Old 01-16-2020, 8:47 AM
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Originally Posted by CAL.BAR View Post
Everyone TALKS a great game, but NO ONE actually DOES IT. You see, the great founders could defy the might of the most powerful empire in the world, but the source of that power was 3 THOUSAND miles and two months sailing away! It's quite a different thing when the authority you are resisting can be at your front door at any time day or night in 15 minutes! We really NEED to knock off the hollow rhetoric and be realistic in these endeavors. Our ONLY recourse is with the courts.
Unfortunately the way the politically partisan court system works that will take YEARS and many of us will be long gone!
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  #53  
Old 01-16-2020, 10:26 AM
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Originally Posted by ajb78 View Post
Wait, laws are supposed to be followed in CA?

Yes but only the ones that you personally feel OK with, as exemplified by our legislators flouting federal immigration law, but enforcing other federal laws.
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  #54  
Old 01-16-2020, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Jimi Jah View Post
If you don't follow/obey the unconstitutional guns laws here then you can get charged as a criminal.

If you are a criminal, none of these laws matter.
If the Gov / state doesnt obey or infringes on the US constitution that also makes them a criminal / tyrant.

Last edited by omega; 01-16-2020 at 12:37 PM..
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  #55  
Old 01-16-2020, 4:26 PM
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Originally Posted by yacko View Post
I don't believe for a second that groups of people with signs and chanting or whatever do **ANYTHING AT ALL** to enact ANY kind of change what so ever.

Honestly... The people you are protesting at/about... are just laughing at you the whole time.

It is completely meaningless and ineffectual and a total waste of time.

Though it *might* make you feel better about yourself- since you can claim you "did something"?

Net effect...
Zero change-
You wasted several hours of your time.
I guess I was just trying to convey (looking back at what I posted, not effectively) was how I noticed on all levels most pro 2A people have stopped going to protests, voting in the numbers they need to or funding their own lawsuits and/or donating to guns rights organizations. Given the climate with our courts to most it's a financial risk they can't afford.

I'm inclined to agree with you, which is why I stopped going after the turn outs I saw to the couple I went to. You're right going to those protests do nothing and being out numbered as we are at the ballot boxes I can see why most don't bother to show up.

Whether for fear of maybe being identified/doxed, getting into it with ANTIFA / bad actor types or somehow getting RF because of it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TrappedinCalifornia View Post
These four posts allude to the gist of the situation for most "California" gun owners. The choice to leave, for many, isn't an option, for a variety of reasons. For all the imprecations proffered about choosing between freedom and subservience, I honestly don't know many who would choose between "their guns" and "their family" when it comes to elderly parents, medical care for a family member, making a living to support their family, etc. Perhaps those who've left can, but many cannot and affording a new home in another State, finding accommodations for family, even finding a new job in their profession which would allow a wage which would allow for a 'new start' is not an "equal opportunity for all" situation.

Many who stay behind, do so, not because they loathe liberty or are complicit in removing fundamental rights or solely because they can surf and ski in the same day, but because they have not found a door or window of opportunity which provides them a viable choice. As a result, they "fight," just not in open skirmishes in that they are far outnumbered at the ballot box; i.e., it would be akin to skirmish lines where you form a squad and they form a platoon, form a platoon and they line up a battalion, etc.

It's not about low odds, it's about not being able to offset 'enough of them' before going down to make such efforts meaningful. Okay. You voted. To what end? This is what Prop 63 demonstrated to many. 5.1 million of us voted "No;" but, 8.7 million of them voted "Yes." That imbalance was reinforced in 2018 with Newsom's election; with 7.7 million voting for Newsom and 4.7 million voting for Cox. (I doubt many gun owners voted for Newsom, despite the 'disappointment' surrounding the nomination of Cox for many.)

As a result, comparisons to the Revolutionary War are a bit... 'off.' Sure. Those who remain could attempt to fight an open, guerrilla war; hiding behind rocks/trees, sniping at those who attempt to enforce what are perceived as unconstitutional laws. But, this isn't the 1770's, even with the comparison of small percentages actually pulling the trigger. It's about even more than this...



It's about how technology and the infrastructure of today's society (including red flag laws; see something, say something; the speed of communications; the ability/speed of tracking and controlling communications, transactions, and similar; etc.) has now provided those you are resisting with a disproportionate edge beyond their numbers and proximity. Add to this the 'rehearsal' in the application of those technologies in places such as Afghanistan and Iraq. At some point, you begin to recognize that "open resistance" is just the quick path to "no open resistance;" kinda like the open carry movement quickly precipitated no open carry laws, which, when coupled with the lack of availability for many of concealed carry permits equated to no carry.

So... Those who 'remain' (whether their rationale is deemed 'acceptable' or not) often 'fight' as a quiet (not necessarily synonymous with 'quiescent') resistance. They file lawsuits (not ALL of which are ultimately doomed, even if it does seem that way). They quietly exercise varying levels of compliance with the law; but, don't necessarily chest pound on Internet forums, daring the authorities to 'come get 'em,' all the while hoping the man doesn't find 'em and 'discover' a prosecutable gap in their level compliance. They stockpile guns and ammo without running to the neighbor or forum to say how they discovered a 'sale' at Walmart and just dropped "$XXXX" on this type of ammo, then 'challenging' others to do similarly.

Some of those are the very people you shoot next to at the range, with their compliant rifles that you scoff at because they are 'registered' or featureless or fixed magazine or not a so-called 'assault weapon.' Some of them are hunters or single-action/cowboy shooters who actually 'agree' with YOU and didn't sell anyone out; but, still participate in those activities because they enjoy them and have every right to even if you abhor the 'groups' which DID, openly and deliberately, 'trade' some of 'our' rights to preserve the rights of their members. (Kinda like the unions who work against the interests of most and blaming union members who have no choice as to being a member if they want to work in that profession in this State, but often opt to have their dues donated elsewhere rather than given directly to the union.)

In other words, it's more akin to 'resistance' rather than 'rebellion' in that those who remain understand that any, flagrant rebellion would be quickly quashed; allowing 'enemy forces' to be moved, en masse, to the next target of opportunity - perhaps the place you chose to 'retreat' to. Whereas a resistance has little chance of overcoming the forces arrayed against them by itself, it does have the 'glamour' of surviving to fight another day, when something has changed sufficiently to allow a more open push with an actual chance to succeed. It also provides the tangential 'benefits' of tying down 'the enemy's' personnel and resources, to whatever degree, setting useful precedents of some kind when and where it can, and generally being a pain in the arse to those allied against us... which, in some instances, causes sufficient irritation to create overreach which is a vulnerability that can be exploited.

As I've said, there are many ways to fight. Each to their own abilities and circumstances.
Quote:
Originally Posted by omega View Post
If the Gov / state doesnt obey or infringes on the US constitution that also makes them a criminal / tyrant.
Well put as others have said. Given our options it seems the ways of resistance seem to be the only path.
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  #56  
Old 01-16-2020, 6:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimi Jah View Post
If you don't follow/obey the unconstitutional guns laws here then you can get charged as a criminal.

If you are a criminal, none of these laws matter.
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  #57  
Old 01-16-2020, 11:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -hanko View Post
The great majority of California gun owners have not complied with registering what California calls "assault" rifles in the last two registrations.

That's per DOJ estimates that only 8 to 10 percent of the guns were actually registered.



See above.



Winner.

Calguns.net has around 20 thousand active members. Run the numbers and tell me what the rest of California's gun owners are doing. Looks like nada / zilch. And good on them for having the courage not to comply.

As always, Calguns.net suggests you obey California's weapons laws.
Yes but the majority complied by removing their “features”. It is all compliance.
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  #58  
Old 01-17-2020, 4:08 AM
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Compliance in and of itself is irrelevant. Because the system that has been enacted is a crushing force that will not only drive compliance, but more importantly when things go sideways, and by that I mean any interaction with law enforcement, you are just one lone person in the sea of the huge gears that drive the states crushing system.

One has to look no further than the very much commented on threads and posts of the central valley farmer. Its repulsive how many people were apologists for the states unconstitutional law. Fact is most people dont have the were with all to truly understand something like that unless they have been through it. That didn't keep the standard calguns apologists from pontificating. They were more concerned about how they thread the needle or if they submitted the right pictures to the DOJ.

Your rights disappear with you when you get arrested. There are plenty of law enforcement that will sell you down the river. Then you're just a person that nobody knows fighting for your life and freedom. But, countless people on this forum will tell you how you should of just did what the state told you to do and none of this would of happened.
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  #59  
Old 01-17-2020, 4:14 AM
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Originally Posted by robertfchew View Post
So how do people not comply when they work in a job that requires them to have no arrests?
Thats the rub right..a choice of work...or rights. This comment is extremely short sighted. Be a good servant and ill give you some food and a place to sleep.
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  #60  
Old 01-17-2020, 10:07 AM
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5 years ago my partner and I were fined over 100k for hiring subcontractors. The state came in and said the guys I 1099’d were employees. They each had their own business license, tools and did the job how they wanted but yet we’re in fact employees. We had to hire lawyers and after we failed to pay them it went to collections. Then we negotiated a price with the state for $5k. Goes to show the state only wants money and will get it by any way possible

Last edited by jamesob; 01-17-2020 at 10:09 AM.. Reason: Added more
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  #61  
Old 01-17-2020, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Echo4kilo View Post
Yes but the majority complied by removing their “features”. It is all compliance.
Or so they say and only on calguns....
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  #62  
Old 01-17-2020, 12:34 PM
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If you think the state is bad now wait until the state starts to fine regular people for not having medical insurance. You know a good indication of how high priced it is is when the state starts offering on television to use your tax dollars to help certain groups pay for the insurance. Then you wonder why your state taxes go up. the same will happen on guns now that they found out they can ignore state law and raise DROS and whatever else they want to make you pay for the right to keep something you bought legitimately in the past. Isn't this state wonderful?
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  #63  
Old 01-17-2020, 1:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Echo4kilo View Post
Yes but the majority complied by removing their “features”. It is all compliance.
As I posted earlier, I've got numbers delineating registered weapons v. total estimated numbers of should-be-registered firearms.

If you're defining the "majority" as those posting here, no big deal. A little over 20,000 active users of calguns.net. That's a drop in a large bucket.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul_R View Post
Or so they say and only on calguns....
See above. This is an awesome forum and I've been here since it began. But it only represents a few of all California gun owners.
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Old 01-28-2020, 1:21 PM
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My perspective on all this horsecrap:

During the registration period for so called assault rifles, I did not comply nor will I ever comply. I moved back into the state over twenty years ago after retiring from the military and did nothing to make my AR California compliant. They can't seize what they don't know I have. When I watched an armed team show up to seize an assault rifle that the state determined was not compliant, I felt vindicated for NOT registering a damn thing. I wish all of you who did register your firearms the best of luck when they use those lists to possibly come after your firearms in the future as you never know what the loonies will do in Sacramento. One thing is for sure, there is a hell of a lot more gun control and bans in the future of California.

Another thing I do not do: I do not apply for permission to carry and have carried concealed for over twenty years. I know the risks of non compliance and a prison cell may be in my future. Freedom is a hill worth defending and dying on if need be. As a veteran combat leader I have faced much worse. Remember that evil does not make an appointment and will not wait while you go to your gun safe and retrieve your gun. Evil will visit you anywhere evil wants to and if you do not have effective means to stop evil when you are walking in the park, shopping mall, etc, then you are a victim waiting for evil to do what evil does. Evil does not wait DECADES for SCOTUS decisions that may some day overturn "may issue". You will be dead and gone before you are ever allowed to exercise your 2nd Amendment freedoms if compliance is your thing and not willing to disobey the law through non compliance.

I remember back when we had freedom. Then the tyrants took over and are still in power. While I was in the military, California banned "assault weapons", making me an instant felon as my AR was locked in my gun safe back in Monterey while I was deployed to Germany. I did not know the law changed while I was gone and was never contacted to even try to comply. I have been non compliant ever since 1989, when California made me a felon by the stroke of a pen.

We are facing an enemy of freedom and as a free man, the decision was EASY. In my estimation, had I complied, I am the one willfully giving up my freedom to comply with clearly unconstitutional gun laws. Having not complied, the state will have to enforce their will and I will not voluntarily allow it. I have led a great life over the last sixty years and know what is and what is not worth fighting for.
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Old 01-28-2020, 1:50 PM
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(hiding for your own good)
What you do is your choice. But you know CADOJ reads these boards. And now they know. If you dont want them to know then I would remove the above.
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Old 01-28-2020, 2:06 PM
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What you do is your choice. But you know CADOJ reads these boards. And now they know. If you dont want them to know then I would remove the above.
I appreciate your concern. CADOJ can KMA. Let them read it. Freedom upsets the holy crap out of them. I quit giving a crap what they think after applying for a CCW back in 1985 and was denied for insufficient good cause in Monterey and less than a year later, my wife was raped while I was deployed to central America. I had a decision to make: Comply or not. I chose not to. As a good law abiding citizen, we both complied until that incident and I regret ever having done so. Your move, CADOJ. Any rational man would feel the same if they were in my shoes under the same circumstances. I can state that evil was NOT done with our family. In 2006, my sister in law was carjacked and beaten so severely she died a few months later in San Bernardino. Since California loves their felons, the two that were caught were only given FOUR YEARS because she did not die from her injuries until after they were sentenced and the DA chose not to charge them with murder after they were already in prison. Some may have patience with appeals regarding gun control laws. I do not. I ask you: Would compliance be rational after those horrific events?

If the CADOJ wanted to execute an enforcement action against me, they had better pack a lunch.

I am well aware that CalGuns must comply with legal request for information regarding members. I am fine with that and understand completely why they must.
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Old 01-28-2020, 2:45 PM
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I appreciate your concern. CADOJ can KMA. Let them read it. Freedom upsets the holy crap out of them. I quit giving a crap what they think after applying for a CCW back in 1985 and was denied for insufficient good cause in Monterey and less than a year later, my wife was raped while I was deployed to central America. I had a decision to make: Comply or not. I chose not to. As a good law abiding citizen, we both complied until that incident and I regret ever having done so. Your move, CADOJ. Any rational man would feel the same if they were in my shoes under the same circumstances. I can state that evil was NOT done with our family. In 2006, my sister in law was carjacked and beaten so severely she died a few months later in San Bernardino. Since California loves their felons, the two that were caught were only given FOUR YEARS because she did not die from her injuries until after they were sentenced and the DA chose not to charge them with murder after they were already in prison. Some may have patience with appeals regarding gun control laws. I do not. I ask you: Would compliance be rational after those horrific events?

If the CADOJ wanted to execute an enforcement action against me, they had better pack a lunch.

I am well aware that CalGuns must comply with legal request for information regarding members. I am fine with that and understand completely why they must.
I am not saying you are wrong in the slightest. I only caution about blasting it for everyone to know. I agree with your statement of what California does not know, they dont know. But then telling them on here, I have this and you dont know I have this, kind of defeats the purpose of them not knowing.

I understand why you do it and support you in that. Just watch your six.
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Old 01-28-2020, 3:28 PM
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maybe we should all imply very carefully that we might have illegal weapons according to california DOJ mandates and when they raid us then sue the daylights out of the department. Misinformation costs them budget money and that is less money for them to chase us. Refusing to pay their DROS fees will really hurt or cooperate on anything that requires us paying taxes (i mean fees) to them. Maybe it is time we start quietly harassing them and depriving them of money.
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Old 01-28-2020, 3:40 PM
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Originally Posted by lhecker51 View Post
My perspective on all this horsecrap:

During the registration period for so called assault rifles, I did not comply nor will I ever comply. I moved back into the state over twenty years ago after retiring from the military and did nothing to make my AR California compliant. They can't seize what they don't know I have. When I watched an armed team show up to seize an assault rifle that the state determined was not compliant, I felt vindicated for NOT registering a damn thing. I wish all of you who did register your firearms the best of luck when they use those lists to possibly come after your firearms in the future as you never know what the loonies will do in Sacramento. One thing is for sure, there is a hell of a lot more gun control and bans in the future of California.

Another thing I do not do: I do not apply for permission to carry and have carried concealed for over twenty years. I know the risks of non compliance and a prison cell may be in my future. Freedom is a hill worth defending and dying on if need be. As a veteran combat leader I have faced much worse. Remember that evil does not make an appointment and will not wait while you go to your gun safe and retrieve your gun. Evil will visit you anywhere evil wants to and if you do not have effective means to stop evil when you are walking in the park, shopping mall, etc, then you are a victim waiting for evil to do what evil does. Evil does not wait DECADES for SCOTUS decisions that may some day overturn "may issue". You will be dead and gone before you are ever allowed to exercise your 2nd Amendment freedoms if compliance is your thing and not willing to disobey the law through non compliance.

I remember back when we had freedom. Then the tyrants took over and are still in power. While I was in the military, California banned "assault weapons", making me an instant felon as my AR was locked in my gun safe back in Monterey while I was deployed to Germany. I did not know the law changed while I was gone and was never contacted to even try to comply. I have been non compliant ever since 1989, when California made me a felon by the stroke of a pen.

We are facing an enemy of freedom and as a free man, the decision was EASY. In my estimation, had I complied, I am the one willfully giving up my freedom to comply with clearly unconstitutional gun laws. Having not complied, the state will have to enforce their will and I will not voluntarily allow it. I have led a great life over the last sixty years and know what is and what is not worth fighting for.
This post made my dick hard
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Old 01-28-2020, 3:54 PM
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Originally Posted by SlickSlinky View Post
I am not saying you are wrong in the slightest. I only caution about blasting it for everyone to know. I agree with your statement of what California does not know, they dont know. But then telling them on here, I have this and you dont know I have this, kind of defeats the purpose of them not knowing.

I understand why you do it and support you in that. Just watch your six.

Agreed, but there is a method to my madness. I sent you an IM explaining.
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Old 01-28-2020, 4:34 PM
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I've seen these types of parts here and elsewhere. I'm often wondering how many of these are false and only an attempt to find others that will admit to such crimes publicly.

Even if I'm wrong and this is simply someone publicly taking a stand. The idea that you are only at risk if you spark the interest of CADOJ is no longer true. How much easier would it be to red flag someone by just correctly stating they have admitted to you they have illegal assault weapons.

I'll support you in your legal fight but I'm not itching to be a party to it.
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Old 01-28-2020, 5:52 PM
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Posts on internet forums are usually IP tagged behind the scenes. Just FYI.
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Old 01-28-2020, 8:31 PM
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Originally Posted by lhecker51 View Post
I appreciate your concern. CADOJ can KMA. Let them read it. Freedom upsets the holy crap out of them. I quit giving a crap what they think after applying for a CCW back in 1985 and was denied for insufficient good cause in Monterey and less than a year later, my wife was raped while I was deployed to central America. I had a decision to make: Comply or not. I chose not to. As a good law abiding citizen, we both complied until that incident and I regret ever having done so. Your move, CADOJ. Any rational man would feel the same if they were in my shoes under the same circumstances. I can state that evil was NOT done with our family. In 2006, my sister in law was carjacked and beaten so severely she died a few months later in San Bernardino. Since California loves their felons, the two that were caught were only given FOUR YEARS because she did not die from her injuries until after they were sentenced and the DA chose not to charge them with murder after they were already in prison. Some may have patience with appeals regarding gun control laws. I do not. I ask you: Would compliance be rational after those horrific events?

If the CADOJ wanted to execute an enforcement action against me, they had better pack a lunch.

I am well aware that CalGuns must comply with legal request for information regarding members. I am fine with that and understand completely why they must.


Good and Thanks.
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Old 01-28-2020, 8:51 PM
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Ah the courts. A system designed by lawyers for lawyers. Who benefits from a court battle? Lawyers. Who starts a court battle? Lawyers. Who prolongs a court battle? Lawyers. Who wins on every side of a court battle? Need I say it?

You forgot, lawyers who are (cough, cough,) working as politicians.
They make a law and expect everyone to obey their (will) law.
Doesn't put a very pretty face to the legal system, does it?
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Old 01-28-2020, 8:54 PM
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californians are quickly approaching a decision time that the democrats are forcing on them. But any violence has to be done in self-defense and plenty of witnesses need to be present. A year ago anyone suggesting a violent defense of 2A on this forum was laughed at but it does not sound like people are laughing now. No one wants violence but do you honestly think liberal leftists are going to just hand your bill of rights back to you especially 2A? The colonial farmers were not trained soldiers but they fought the odds and lack of weapons to earn their rights and freedom. the British used many foreign troops so they were not short soldiers. The American made sure far more enemy fell than Americans that turned the tide. Snipers, ambushes, etc helped the colonies win. anyone can come up with reasons to surrender and act like sheep. But with the number of weapons dropping out of the system and people refusing to use DROS/CFARS and their recording system for future confiscation will collapse. I applaud the gun owners who get to know each other and remove guns from the system. But if you think the gun organizations or gun shops are going to support defying a system that helps pay their paychecks you have anything coming.
I'm not laughing. But I'm to old to laugh.
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  #76  
Old 01-28-2020, 10:01 PM
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I've seen these types of parts here and elsewhere. I'm often wondering how many of these are false and only an attempt to find others that will admit to such crimes publicly.

Even if I'm wrong and this is simply someone publicly taking a stand. The idea that you are only at risk if you spark the interest of CADOJ is no longer true. How much easier would it be to red flag someone by just correctly stating they have admitted to you they have illegal assault weapons.

I'll support you in your legal fight but I'm not itching to be a party to it.
I stand alone and do not expect others to involve themselves. That would be like a non swimmer jumping into the deep end. What I do, I do of my own free will and I am not urging anyone to join me and would urge folks not to. There is a very good reason I did what I did and what every one of you will eventually do when you have finally had enough or possibly sooner if you have lost a loved one or been horribly violated by violent crime.

For over a decade folks on this very forum laughed and thought I was insane for taking this stance regarding non compliance. I wonder who will be left laughing in the near future. I am not an off the rocker threat to anyone. I am a citizen that is willing to DEFEND my rights, not take offensive violent action. During that same period of time, I have only had one run in with the CA DOJ firearms folks and that was regarding my purchase of a gun collection and their insistence that I allow them to verify that I still had those firearms in my possession. I never responded to their demand and they never followed up.

As a free man, the oppressive state of California is at war with us all in their eternal attempts of hobbling that very same freedom that stands in their way. Nothing is more of a threat to tyranny than the armed citizen. State politicians are deaf to the pleas of their gun owning constituents. Once they have done away with the right to bear arms and made it too legally hazardous to comply, they will continue and redouble their assault on free speech.

As I am now much older, I reflect on the following timely poems that many of you may be familiar with:
------------
Do Not Go Gentle Into That Good Night

"Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Though wise men at their end know dark is right,
Because their words had forked no lightning they
Do not go gentle into that good night.

Good men, the last wave by, crying how bright
Their frail deeds might have danced in a green bay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Wild men who caught and sang the sun in flight,
And learn, too late, they grieve it on its way,
Do not go gentle into that good night.

Grave men, near death, who see with blinding sight
Blind eyes could blaze like meteors and be gay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

And you, my father, there on the sad height,
Curse, bless, me now with your fierce tears, I pray.
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light."

-Dylan Thomas

'I hold a beast, an angel, and a madman in me, and my enquiry is as to their working, and my problem is their subjugation and victory, downthrow and upheaval, and my effort is their self-expression'.

Invictus: The Unconquerable


Out of the night that covers me,
Black as the Pit from pole to pole,
I thank whatever gods may be
For my unconquerable soul.

In the fell clutch of circumstance
I have not winced nor cried aloud,
Under the bludgeonings of chance
My head is bloody, but unbowed.

Beyond this place of wrath and tears
Looms but the horror of the shade,
And yet the menace of the years
Finds, and shall find me, unafraid.

It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishments the scroll,
I am the master of my fate:
I am the captain of my soul."

-William Ernest Henley

And one quote we are all very familiar with:

“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.”
― Benjamin Franklin, Memoirs of the life & writings of Benjamin Franklin
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  #77  
Old 01-28-2020, 11:23 PM
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I'm not laughing. But I'm to old to laugh.
Neither am I, GrampaJoel. Yes, in the recent past folks mocked and laughed at any person that took a stand as bit by bit their rights were taken away. They went ballistic in their attacks for the owner of Ares Arms in San Diego who made a business of selling 80% lowers back n the day. All perfectly legal, but folks were worried they would lose the right to build 80% lowers. I have news for all citizens regarding state politicians: They will not stop. Ever.

The fear was that the last crumbs of freedom would be diminished further. I am not a crumbs kind of guy. I want the entire freedom loaf that is my right.

What I find very telling is that one of the most anti gun politicians, Leland Yee, is in prison for GUN TRAFFICKING. The state is being run by politicians of evil intent. Just look at the cities of LA, SF and SD as evidence of their absolute apathy. They are immune to facts if those facts do not maintain or grow their power. They could care less that we know what they are up to as they have abandoned all pretense regarding their aspirations.

California gun owners will eventually come around and unite like they are doing in Virginia. I fully expect Newsome will not let Virginia out gun control California. I have never in my life seen such a push on all fronts for total gun control and firearms bans at a state level, by many states in concert with each other.

I guess I am just too old these days to really give a crap about the consequences of non compliance.
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Old 01-29-2020, 9:57 AM
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While I totally agree with your pro 2A stance, you ended up with a rifle you cant even take to the range to enjoy your hobby. The progressive socialists anticipated non compliance like this and knew those who chose this route would just bury their non compliant firearms in their backyard never being able to enjoy their shooting hobby again and that it would take a generation to eliminate them completely. The only chance California has to ever change must take place at the ballot box with voting and that is a huge hurdle. Perhaps breaking the state up into several smaller states. I wish SCOTUS would get involved but they are reluctant to intervene in state gun laws. California is doomed for the foreseeable future.
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Old 01-29-2020, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by lavey29 View Post
While I totally agree with your pro 2A stance, you ended up with a rifle you cant even take to the range to enjoy your hobby. The progressive socialists anticipated non compliance like this and knew those who chose this route would just bury their non compliant firearms in their backyard never being able to enjoy their shooting hobby again and that it would take a generation to eliminate them completely. The only chance California has to ever change must take place at the ballot box with voting and that is a huge hurdle. Perhaps breaking the state up into several smaller states. I wish SCOTUS would get involved but they are reluctant to intervene in state gun laws. California is doomed for the foreseeable future.
Not to inject myself into the conversation again... but, you have a couple of fallacies in your statement and they are not your's alone.
  • Owning firearms is not just an "hobby." "Hobby" is defined as - "an activity done regularly in one's leisure time for pleasure." Certainly, pursuing firearms as an hobby is PART of the equation; whether shooting, collecting, reloading, et al. But, for many, if not most, there are more practical and less esoteric reasons than 'pleasure' involved in owning a firearm. Sometimes, it is simply a means of putting meat on the table (whether through hunting or job requirements); while, for others, it provides a sense of security (whether against intruders or 'evil doers' or as 'insurance' against a repressive Government).
  • A single type of long arm does not dictate one's ability to take pleasure in firearms activities. Even if one does not have a 'compliant' version to 'practice' with, that does not mean he cannot take pleasure/satisfaction in firearms; keeping a specific type of firearm for other reasons than 'shooting.' In fact, he has stated that he derives a certain pleasure/satisfaction in the Government 'not knowing' about his firearms. (Never mind, as others have observed, his public commentary regarding owning such firearms.)
In short, simply because someone owns or uses or derives pleasure/satisfaction in firearms differently than 'you' do, maybe for different reasons than 'you' do, doesn't mean they are not participating in "the shooting hobby," making them complicit in eliminating said hobby for the next generation.

You are correct, however, in terms of California's foreseeable future. It's why many have moved out. Others continue to 'resist' due to lacking opportunity/ability to move. Still others are quietly (or not so quietly) pursuing their own path; convincing themselves they are "too old" to care about the consequences were they to be 'caught' doing so.

Yet... MOST OF THEM are 'doing something' in terms of not complying. This is why people who criticize others for not doing as they do, then chastising them for 'not doing anything' are so irritating. In some respects, it's comparable to two men, one who can carry a 100 lb. load and the other who can only manage 25 lbs. at a time. Is the first man "doing something" because he can haul the whole, 100 lb. load in one trip and the 2nd man "not doing something" because he makes four trips to move the 'same' load?

As I've said, there are many ways to fight. Each to their own abilities and circumstances.

Last edited by TrappedinCalifornia; 01-29-2020 at 11:27 AM..
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Old 01-29-2020, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lavey29 View Post
While I totally agree with your pro 2A stance, you ended up with a rifle you cant even take to the range to enjoy your hobby. The progressive socialists anticipated non compliance like this and knew those who chose this route would just bury their non compliant firearms in their backyard never being able to enjoy their shooting hobby again and that it would take a generation to eliminate them completely. The only chance California has to ever change must take place at the ballot box with voting and that is a huge hurdle. Perhaps breaking the state up into several smaller states. I wish SCOTUS would get involved but they are reluctant to intervene in state gun laws. California is doomed for the foreseeable future.
Did you read the "...shall not be infringed..." part of the Second Amendment.

The Second amendment does not address taking the gun "to the range to enjoy your hobby".

Why do you think the Founding Fathers added the Second Amendment?
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