PPT FAQ - Sales limit etc.

[Dennis]

Originally Posted by dok

I was at kw defense in stockton today and was told ppt are now limited to one in 30 for semi auto handguns.They are great people and good to do business with.Has anyone heard of this?She did say it might be a glitch in the doj system.

Originally Posted by 1911-CV

PC 27535 Original Bill became effective July 1 which states:

(a) "A person shall not make an application to purchase more than one handgun or semiautomatic centerfire rifle within any 30-day period."

but does not apply to (b)(8) "Any transaction conducted through a licensed firearms dealer pursuant to Chapter 5 (commencing with Section 28050)." - Which is a PPT.

Some glitches have been reported in the DOJ system, first I've heard of this one.

Perhaps I reading this wrong. I've always struggled with reading and interpreting legal stuff. I might have an opportunity to pick up two guns from one person. This would be considered one PPT and is still allowed, correct? Has anyone had confirmation about this possible "Glitch" one way or another?

[Xerxes]

So a stripped receiver (Americas Rifle and some others) seems to get transferred by DROS as a centerfire semi-automatic rifle, (no idea how folks get them transferred as semi-auto handguns them sell them here on Calguns for $2,000 for the bare receiver with copy of their DROS).

QUESTION.
Does the stripped AR receiver (or stripped UZI, PS90, Galil, AK, etc) counted in the one in 30 days?

If so is it because how it was DROS'd? meaning if it was DROS'd as not semi-automatic that it does not count-not sure how I would go about that but it appears many folks here have some way of doing so for those odd AR handgun receivers.

Is there any exemption for C&R semi-auto rifles or handguns? similar to the handgun roster exemption for C&R.

.....last, the Dealer Consignment handguns were exempt under the old 30 day, are consignment handguns/rifles exempt to the one in 30 as the Dealer does not purchase them but they are not Person to Person in the strictest sense.

Thank you for your time in replying with useful factual information only. I am looking for an FFL to answer or someone that has been denied or had success in answering.......I have already done all the conjecturing I need by myself and do not need any more of that as it gives me a horrible headache!.

[Quiet]

Originally Posted by Xerxes

So a stripped receiver (Americas Rifle and some others) seems to get transferred by DROS as a centerfire semi-automatic rifle, (no idea how folks get them transferred as semi-auto handguns them sell them here on Calguns for $2,000 for the bare receiver with copy of their DROS).

QUESTION.
Does the stripped AR receiver (or stripped UZI, PS90, Galil, AK, etc) counted in the one in 30 days?

If so is it because how it was DROS'd? meaning if it was DROS'd as not semi-automatic that it does not count-not sure how I would go about that but it appears many folks here have some way of doing so for those odd AR handgun receivers.

Is there any exemption for C&R semi-auto rifles or handguns? similar to the handgun roster exemption for C&R.

.....last, the Dealer Consignment handguns were exempt under the old 30 day, are consignment handguns/rifles exempt to the one in 30 as the Dealer does not purchase them but they are not Person to Person in the strictest sense.

Thank you for your time in replying with useful factual information only. I am looking for an FFL to answer or someone that has been denied or had success in answering.......I have already done all the conjecturing I need by myself and do not need any more of that as it gives me a horrible headache!.

Unless an exemption is utilized, an AR15 style receiver is typically DROS'd as "rifle, receiver".

Since it is not processed as a "rifle, semi-auto", it does not trigger the 1 in 30 day restriction.
However, if it is incorrectly processed as a "rifle, semi-auto, receiver", then it could trigger the 1 in 30 day wait.
^Since it is a stripped receiver, there are no parts that make's it semi-auto, so it should not be processed as a semi-auto.
~Also, if it is a factory virgin receiver, then it has never been configured as a semi-auto, so it should never be indicated as a semi-auto when it is processed.

An exempt person (i.e. CA LEO) can have an AR15 style receiver DROS'd as a "pistol, semi-auto, receiver" or "pistol, receiver".
^This is because they are exempt from CA unsafe handgun laws and can legally acquire pistol receivers from CA FFL dealers.


There is no C&R firearm exemption to the 1 in 30 day wait.

However, a person with a valid C&R 03-FFL and valid COE is exempt from the 1 in 30 day wait. [PC 27535(b)(9)]
^This exemption applies to both C&R and non-C&R firearms. It is not restricted to just C&R firearms.

Consignment sales are considered a type of PPT and PPT are exempt from the 1 in 30 day wait. [PC 27535(b)(8)]

[Xerxes]

Originally Posted by Quiet

Unless an exemption is utilized, an AR15 style receiver is typically DROS'd as "rifle, receiver".

Since it is not processed as a "rifle, semi-auto", it does not trigger the 1 in 30 day restriction.
However, if it is incorrectly processed as a "rifle, semi-auto, receiver", then it could trigger the 1 in 30 day wait.
^Since it is a stripped receiver, there are no parts that make's it semi-auto, so it should not be processed as a semi-auto.
~Also, if it is a factory virgin receiver, then it has never been configured as a semi-auto, so it should never be indicated as a semi-auto when it is processed.

An exempt person (i.e. CA LEO) can have an AR15 style receiver DROS'd as a "pistol, semi-auto, receiver" or "pistol, receiver".
^This is because they are exempt from CA unsafe handgun laws and can legally acquire pistol receivers from CA FFL dealers.


There is no C&R firearm exemption to the 1 in 30 day wait.

However, a person with a valid C&R 03-FFL and valid COE is exempt from the 1 in 30 day wait. [PC 27535(b)(9)]
^This exemption applies to both C&R and non-C&R firearms. It is not restricted to just C&R firearms.

Consignment sales are considered a type of PPT and PPT are exempt from the 1 in 30 day wait. [PC 27535(b)(8)]

Thank you for your kindly reply.

The two ANDERSON stripped receivers recently DROS'd as category "SEMI-AUTOMATIC" by the SPORTSMAN Warehouse. To be fair they did ask my how I was going to put it together and I thought that was weird as it gave me the impression that I had options to choose like ..... handgun... then I could be a classified market place cowboy for a day and flip it for 20 times what I paid at $2,000.

29 Outdoor recently did a PA10 and UZI receiver for me and they too clicked the category "SEMI-AUTOMATIC". They did not ask me any questions-just did it that way.

As for your explanation of LEO exempts being the source of the 2 to 3 AR15 receivers being sold as handguns each month in the Marketplacde, well that makes sense. Hopefully the DROS does not say LEO exemption on it and incomplete receiver. The community would be better serviced if the original buyer assembled it so that its a complete pistol assembled by exception to the safe and insane handgun manufacturing law where a different color invokes a new round of required testing as some colors are more dangerous and prone to firing when dropped.

Another question prompted by the most excellent answer I received.....
For the FFL's out there ....... or.... anybody else who in the last 60 & 1/2 days that DROS'd a stripped lower receiver ...or two.....or three ....... what category is listed on your DROS paperwork?
What categories can be chosen on the DROS for a stripped lower receiver that the DOJ will accept?
Is the FFL free to choose the category as he pleases or do you self declare how you are going to assemble it and thats what he puts (i.e. why sportsman asked me how I was going to assemble it-I did say one was to be a 22LR but he still listed it as centerfire semi-auto-it was a two-fer DROS so maybe thats why).

All of this typing by me was prompted by me seeing threads/posts the stripped receivers were exempt .....but my recent DROS's clearly list CATEGORY as "SEMI-AUTOMATIC" so how do I make this work for me for multiple stripped receiver purchases at once (for better price with shipping and DROS cost)

Thank you in advance for your time and kindly replies.

[Rogerbutthead]

The purchase of a pump action shotgun is not affected by this law, right?

If I bought a pistol on the 27th of September, I still can go buy a pump action shotgun immediately afterwards - as I read the law - ?

Not sure how gun stores/DOJ are enforcing this rule. Would a semi-auto centerfire shotgun be considered covered by this law or not - ?

[Librarian]

Originally Posted by Rogerbutthead

1 - The purchase of a pump action shotgun is not affected by this law, right?

2 - If I bought a pistol on the 27th of September, I still can go buy a pump action shotgun immediately afterwards - as I read the law - ?

3 - Not sure how gun stores/DOJ are enforcing this rule. Would a semi-auto centerfire shotgun be considered covered by this law or not - ?

1 - correct, pump shotguns not covered

2 - yes

3 - no, not in the law, but we have anecdotes here where DOJ is attempting to include shotguns. Enforcement is all DOJ.

[CaliTrav]

So can anyone confirm, are PPT still exempt from the 1 in 30? I am supposed to meet this coming weekend to pick up a Glock 19 but still has not been 30 days since I bought my 442.

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[1911-CV]

Read Post #1 - it was updated after the most recent legislative changes.

And thank Librarian

[CaliTrav]

Originally Posted by 1911-CV

Read Post #1 - it was updated after the most recent legislative changes.

And thank Librarian

Thanks, I did confirm it is still exempt outside of LA county. Thanks for the clarification.
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[Exiledviking]

Is it possible to buy two pistols from one private party and transfer them on the same DROS via a PPT?

[1911-CV]

Yes, except in LA.

[freshdesigns@hotmail.com]

Originally Posted by edgerly779

5 ppt transactions up yo 50 firearms total to be accurate

Ok, just to be clear:
If I bought 2 PPT firearms (either pistols or long guns count the same I assume) and sold 2 via PPT, then I have a total of 4 transactions and only allowed 1 more PPT OR purchase this year (January 1, 2023-December 31, 2023)?

However, more than 1 gun can be put on a single PPT sheet that only counts as 1 transaction? Am I understanding correctly?

[Librarian]

Originally Posted by freshdesigns@hotmail.com

Ok, just to be clear:
If I bought 2 PPT firearms (either pistols or long guns count the same I assume) and sold 2 via PPT, then I have a total of 4 transactions and only allowed 1 more PPT OR purchase this year (January 1, 2023-December 31, 2023)?

However, more than 1 gun can be put on a single PPT sheet that only counts as 1 transaction? Am I understanding correctly?

Buying PPT does not count. That's in the first post in the thread:

BUYERS: number of PPT is unlimited

If you have the money, you can buy as often as you like (except, as noted, inside City of LA)

Yes, you may have several guns in their 10-day waits at the same time.

Yes, plural guns sold in one sale is just one 'transaction'.

[freshdesigns@hotmail.com]

Originally Posted by Librarian

Buying PPT does not count. That's in the first post in the thread:

Yes, plural guns sold in one sale is just one 'transaction'.

Thank you! I have an opportunity to sell some more toys now!

[MFG328]

Okay here’s my situation.

Friend is in the Air Force stationed in Las Vegas. He is a Ca resident still. Has off roster gun that he can sell to me. Is this still legal. He is willing to drive to Ca to do the PPT. There shouldn’t be an issue being that he bought it legally in another state and is a Ca resident.

[CartridgeCalls]

Originally Posted by Exiledviking

Is it possible to buy two pistols from one private party and transfer them on the same DROS via a PPT?

Absolutely, There is a 50 firearm limit per year for the seller and 5 dros transaction limit to the number of sales per calendar year on a ppt for handgun or longguns. I typically try to sell 10 at a time on 5 transactions if possible.

[CartridgeCalls]

I still can't get and answer from CA from Amy department it ffl03 are exempt from 5 dros is selling their collection of c&r. I have quite a few I'd like to yhin out but can't find or get a reputable answer.

[freshdesigns@hotmail.com]

Originally Posted by CartridgeCalls

Absolutely, There is a 50 firearm limit per year for the seller and 5 dros transaction limit to the number of sales per calendar year on a ppt for handgun or longguns. I typically try to sell 10 at a time on 5 transactions if possible.

So we CA residents are only allowed 5 PPT purchases (not sales) per year (although multiple guns can be on each DROS)?

Plus, 1 gun per month limit on new gun purchases?

[1911-CV]

No, purchase all you want and can afford. The PPT transaction limit is on 5 sales transactions. As you noted, multiple guns can be included in a sale (or purchase).

The state 1 per month limit does not apply to PPT transactions. LA has their own ordinance that does impose the 1 per month limit on PPT transactions within that county.

Originally Posted by freshdesigns@hotmail.com

So we CA residents are only allowed 5 PPT purchases (not sales) per year (although multiple guns can be on each DROS)?

Plus, 1 gun per month limit on new gun purchases?

[Librarian]

Originally Posted by CartridgeCalls

I still can't get and answer from CA from Amy department it ffl03 are exempt from 5 dros is selling their collection of c&r. I have quite a few I'd like to yhin out but can't find or get a reputable answer.

And you won't get one from the State. They're not obligated to respond to 'civilians'; they're a source of advice to CA District Attorneys.

You can take those guns out of state and sell them in accordance with the laws on the C&R Collector's License in both Federal and local codes.

But inside CA, you generally (always? IDK) do have to use an FFL for sales, so the 5 transactions/50 guns per year is going to apply.

On the one hand, neither CA nor Feds wants you to be 'in the business' without being correctly licensed for that.

On the other hand, clearly the State did not understand how collectors actually function, so this limitation is annoying. (Expecting the Legislature to understand anything at all about guns is sure to bring disappointment.)

On the gripping hand, we don't hear about enforcement by CA against actual collectors, so what risk you might actually be taking is hard to assess. All that DROS info would document the activity; whether it might be deemed criminal activity is uncertain.

[laguytoo]

Hi All -

need a clarification.. I have a seller who wants to PPT one transaction but 2 buyers.. Is that even possible?

I can find anything to clarify 2 buyers...

[dzheng]

Hi, first time buying PPT, when do I pay the guy for the gun?

[bugsy714]

Originally Posted by laguytoo

Hi All -

need a clarification.. I have a seller who wants to PPT one transaction but 2 buyers.. Is that even possible?

I can find anything to clarify 2 buyers...

Yes, he can buy more than one gun with the same background check credit card transfers at the same time and they can either be from two different sellers


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[bugsy714]

Originally Posted by dzheng

Hi, first time buying PPT, when do I pay the guy for the gun?

Typically I collect payment before the final piece of the paperwork is signed


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[munkeeboi]

City of LA specific.

If I am within my 30 days from a previous ppt outside of the city of LA, can I still do a ppt within the city of LA?

[Librarian]

Originally Posted by munkeeboi

City of LA specific.

If I am within my 30 days from a previous ppt outside of the city of LA, can I still do a ppt within the city of LA?

No.

Has to be the other order, inside the City, then outside.

[EuroDriver]

I have a different question regarding PPT waiting limits: Is there a waiting period between PPT purchases?

This is my situation:

I bought a handgun via PPT on 6/8, then I found a seller of a different handgun I really want.

On 6/12, I went to do a PPT purchase with the second seller at a local FFL. FFL told me that I have to wait at least 5 days before doing another PPT purchase and if I do a second PPT within 5 days of a prior PPT, it would get rejected. (Said he wanted to avoid me wasting my time and money, as I would have to pay for a new PPT fee and another 10-day waiting period if rejected).

I have been researching this issue but have found nothing on the subject. Can you please provide me the rules on this or some clarification?

Thanks.

[Librarian]

Originally Posted by EuroDriver

I have a different question regarding PPT waiting limits: Is there a waiting period between PPT purchases?

No.

Generally still have the 10-day wait before you can pick up the gun, but no law (outside the City of Los Angeles) prevents you from touring all your local gun stores and buying PPT at each one on the same day.

[EuroDriver]

Originally Posted by Librarian

No.

Generally still have the 10-day wait before you can pick up the gun, but no law (outside the City of Los Angeles) prevents you from touring all your local gun stores and buying PPT at each one on the same day.

Thank you. Much appreciated.

[Rob323]

I have a couple of questions. Havent sold or bought a gun in a few years and with california changing laws so fast.

Im selling 2 firearms and was wondering if i have to wait 30 days in between sales and what documents do i have to bring to the sale.
Thanks.

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[9Cal_OC]

Call the FFL ahead of time. Some want you to have a Real ID and FSC. Some don’t care and just need you to have a valid ID.

Since you’re selling, you don’t need to wait 30 days in between. You’re confusing that rule for buyers buying from dealer inventory (handguns and semi auto centerfire rifles are subject to the 1-in-30)

[Rob323]

Originally Posted by 9Cal_OC

Call the FFL ahead of time. Some want you to have a Real ID and FSC. Some don?t care and just need you to have a valid ID.

Since you?re selling, you don?t need to wait 30 days in between. You?re confusing that rule for buyers buying from dealer inventory (handguns and semi auto centerfire rifles are subject to the 1-in-30)

Thanks for the info. Appreciate it.

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