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Optics, Mounts, Rails and Sights If it aims your firearm, post about it here.

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  #1  
Old 10-10-2018, 3:25 PM
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Default Are some/better scopes less prone to parallax from eye position?

This is a 6-shot group I shot at 200 yards today.



The rifle is a Savage 111 TH with the "free" scope provided by Savage as part of the combo. My aim point for all 6 shots was the center of the target (the large red square.) The shots were taken off a bench with a rifle-mounted bipod and my off hand under the rear of the stock.

(Don't laugh... this is pretty good for me...)

There was a mag change in the group, this was two 3-round mags.

I'm starting to see this more and more as I improve: my shots are coalescing into a number of decent groups instead of looking like a "shotgun" blast.

As best as I can tell, I'm putting my face into a SLIGHTLY different place, despite being careful, and the shots are grouping as you see above due to scope parallax, and my eye being in a slightly different place behind the glass.

I know they make scopes with AO controls that can be used to control this, but I really don't like the idea of seeing a elk, and having to mess with an AO control in the middle of everything else... I'd like to set it to a "good enough" setting, and then do the rest with skill and practice, if I can.

So, with the knowledge that my current scope is absolute crap, are higher end scopes more forgiving of this effect than cheap scopes? Is a larger Exit Pupil or scope tube diameter helpful here?

Thanks...
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  #2  
Old 10-10-2018, 4:02 PM
usmcspud usmcspud is offline
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Position your head at such a distance to see a black ring around your view thru the scope. Slightly adjust your head until the black ring is equal width all the way around.
Focus on crosshairs.
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Old 10-10-2018, 6:51 PM
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A larger exit pupil is better at gathering light & will help with the brightness at max magnification. A larger tube diameter gives more adjustment range for the turrets. Neither of those things will help with parallax.

Spud's advice about centering the black ring is good.
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Old 10-10-2018, 6:59 PM
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Consistency is the key. I have my stock adjusted so that each time when I get in to shooting stance, be it prone or bench or whatever, it's the same each time. Much like a shotgun fit, it just takes practice and getting used to where it sits in your shoulder pocket and cheek, or as stated above get used to the field of view your witnessing. Eventually it will become second nature. To answer your question yes you can get a better eye relief but it's gonna cost you. Vortex usually has a 4" box which is pretty good for the cost but you're better off learning with he cheap redfield or Nikon you have then upgrading after you've learned the fundamentals. If you can't shoot a stock Glock a Gucci Glock won't make you win competitions same principle applies here.
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Old 10-13-2018, 8:30 AM
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Have you checked if parallax was present at 200 yards? FYI, non adjustable scopes are set at the factory to be parallax free at 100-200 yards depending on the manufacturer. Whatever parallax exists at 200 is minuscule. It would not cause what you’re seeing.

Recoil control or a mechanical defect in the system is more likely the culprit.
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Old 10-13-2018, 10:51 AM
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What kind of ammo are you shooting? Cheap milsurp? Factory bulk? Match? Handloads?
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Old 10-13-2018, 12:38 PM
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You have a few factors that could be related to the rifle, then there's ammo choices, Shooter issues, and lastly (maybe) the scope parallax. I've tried to list in descending order of effect here.

1) The Trophy Hunter is a skinny barrel in a plastic stock. Both are not conducive to repeatable accuracy.

2)As asked above, what ammo. Some "hunting ammo" is 2-3MOA capable max.

3) Shooter ability/skill. Are you focusing on reticle only or gazing at the target (correct answer: the reticle)? When you "dry-fire" do the crosshairs stay stable or move?

4) Parallax. As others stated usually fixed at 100 or 200yds. Parallax at shorter distances from setting has more influence than further shots. This is least likely the cause of your 3MOA spread.

5) Wind. May be a slight factor, but not likely to push bullets that far off at 200yds.
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Old 10-16-2018, 7:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k1dude View Post
What kind of ammo are you shooting? Cheap milsurp? Factory bulk? Match? Handloads?
PPU "low pressure" 30-06 factory rounds. The ones sold for use in C&R rifles a while back


Quote:
Originally Posted by J-cat View Post
Have you checked if parallax was present at 200 yards?
It is. The scope's not clear enough for a sharp measurment, but it's about 3" at 200 yards.

Quote:
Originally Posted by J-cat View Post
Recoil control or a mechanical defect in the system is more likely the culprit.
If anything, my error is likely related to trigger control.
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Old 10-16-2018, 8:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigFatGuy View Post
PPU "low pressure" 30-06 factory rounds. The ones sold for use in C&R rifles a while back




It is. The scope's not clear enough for a sharp measurment, but it's about 3" at 200 yards.



If anything, my error is likely related to trigger control.
IMO That big a jump right or left is either;

Loose scope mount.

Or

You shifted your setup behind the rifle. (Which can affect trigger pull)
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Old 10-16-2018, 8:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigFatGuy View Post
PPU "low pressure" 30-06 factory rounds. The ones sold for use in C&R rifles a while back.
That's a big part of the problem. PPU isn't known for their precision and accuracy. They're primarily an inexpensive bulk producer.

Try purchasing some match ammo in various weights. You need to find out what your rifle likes to eat. Then, if you hand load you can refine it further once you narrow it down with factory rounds.

I suspect a big part of the problem is your ammo. If the problem still persists, at least you eliminated one variable.
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Old 10-16-2018, 9:26 PM
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Scope rings could be loose, or in need of a lapping job. But considering it is two fairly distinct groups, I suggest going back to 100 yards and trying to tighten things up.

Also avoid putting too much downward pressure on the barrel whether using a bipod or bag.
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  #12  
Old 10-17-2018, 7:20 PM
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I just realized, the image is rotated. The spread is vertical.

I guess that means ammo quality is a more likely issue...
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  #13  
Old 10-21-2018, 9:53 AM
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Just get a better scope.

If there is that much difference due to head movement, something else is out of whack. That is more than just the parallax at 200 yards should give you if the scope is parallax free at 100 yards.

Generally, even without parallax adjustment, better scope will be more forgiving. For example, I routinely shoot my SWFA 3-9x42 out to 600 yards with no issues.

You want something with better depth of field to use at longer distances without parallax adjustment.

ILya
www.darklordofoptics.com
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