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  #1  
Old 07-12-2019, 3:47 PM
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Default COE and Type 03 FFL (C&R) to get around ammo purchase hoops

Finally decided to pull the trigger (figuratively) on getting my California Certificate of Eligibility and my federal Type 03 FFL (Curio & Relic) on Wednesday.

Had the LiveScan fingerprints for the COE done at my local college PD department. Cost was $91 (including their $20 fee).

Filled out the COE application on the CFARS website. I was pleasingly surprised to discover that the $91 Livescan fee included the COE application fee. So no additional cost there.

Filled out the downloadable PDF for the FFL application. Since I was applying for the Curio & Relic license, no picture or fingerprint information required. Just had to print a second copy to mail to my local chief LEO. Total cost was $30 plus two stamps.

Shocked to receive my COE approval and number today (two days after application). I expected it to take a month at minimum. For the FFL, I have been told the waiting period is 60-90 days.

Total time spent...four hours including the drive over to the college PD and the wait time. Total cost...$121.

Once I have the COE and FFL, I will be able to have ammo shipped to my doorstep again. The COE also waives the 30-day between purchases limitation on handguns.

So, not excruciatingly expensive or onerous to get (although I wouldn't call it cheap), but to me it's worth it to be able to give a big **** You to the state and their backdoor attack on 2A.


California LiveScan Service Form
https://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/a...s/bcia8016.pdf

LiveScan Location list (and operator costs)
https://oag.ca.gov/fingerprints/locations

Federal FFL application
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/fo...31016/download

Federal FFL application instructions
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/instruc...rearms-license
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Last edited by Gryff; 07-12-2019 at 3:53 PM..
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  #2  
Old 07-12-2019, 4:10 PM
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To be clear. You are not doing this to "get around ammo purchase hoops".

You are doing this to enable yourself to have access to ammunition that would not reasonably be accessible to your curio and relic collection.

Good luck on speedy approvals.
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  #3  
Old 07-12-2019, 4:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gryff View Post
Finally decided to pull the trigger (figuratively) on getting my California Certificate of Eligibility and my federal Type 03 FFL (Curio & Relic) on Wednesday.

Had the LiveScan fingerprints for the COE done at my local college PD department. Cost was $91 (including their $20 fee).

Filled out the COE application on the CFARS website. I was pleasingly surprised to discover that the $91 Livescan fee included the COE application fee. So no additional cost there.

Filled out the downloadable PDF for the FFL application. Since I was applying for the Curio & Relic license, no picture or fingerprint information required. Just had to print a second copy to mail to my local chief LEO. Total cost was $30 plus two stamps.

Shocked to receive my COE approval and number today (two days after application). I expected it to take a month at minimum. For the FFL, I have been told the waiting period is 60-90 days.

Total time spent...four hours including the drive over to the college PD and the wait time. Total cost...$121.

Once I have the COE and FFL, I will be able to have ammo shipped to my doorstep again. The COE also waives the 30-day between purchases limitation on handguns.

So, not excruciatingly expensive or onerous to get (although I wouldn't call it cheap), but to me it's worth it to be able to give a big **** You to the state and their backdoor attack on 2A.


California LiveScan Service Form
https://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/a...s/bcia8016.pdf

LiveScan Location list (and operator costs)
https://oag.ca.gov/fingerprints/locations

Federal FFL application
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/fo...31016/download

Federal FFL application instructions
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/instruc...rearms-license
Brownells and Grafs are very good with discounts for C&R holders. Numrich Arms too. Midway no longer provides a discount.

Regarding the 1 in 30, applies to all handguns and not just C&R. That's a change from a few years back and some FFL Dealers haven't quite caught up. I carry a copy of the recent CA DOJ with me - helps sometimes, not always. On those that demur I tend to back off.

Once set up & done with LiveScan it ballparks out to about $30.00 a year. But all in all, getting ammo on line, skipping the one in thirty and buying "cash & carry" for C&R stuff out of state - sure cost me more in the long run. Check out the C&R List, it's a lot more than "old guns" that qualify. I've picked up a few Smith commemoratives as plain old shooters (Model 25, Model 544) at good prices.
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Old 07-12-2019, 4:52 PM
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If only this were an option for those living in Los Angeles.
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  #5  
Old 07-12-2019, 8:48 PM
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I really need to get this also.


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  #6  
Old 07-13-2019, 6:09 PM
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It's unfortunate the ammo law was not written with a exemption for just obtaining a COE to receive doorstep ammo deliveries.
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  #7  
Old 07-14-2019, 7:42 AM
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Loop hole!!

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  #8  
Old 07-14-2019, 9:20 AM
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It's unfortunate unconstitutional the ammo law was not written with a exemption for just obtaining a COE to receive doorstep ammo deliveries.

FIFY
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  #9  
Old 07-14-2019, 9:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gryff View Post
Finally decided to pull the trigger (figuratively) on getting my California Certificate of Eligibility and my federal Type 03 FFL (Curio & Relic) on Wednesday.

Had the LiveScan fingerprints for the COE done at my local college PD department. Cost was $91 (including their $20 fee).

Filled out the COE application on the CFARS website. I was pleasingly surprised to discover that the $91 Livescan fee included the COE application fee. So no additional cost there.

Filled out the downloadable PDF for the FFL application. Since I was applying for the Curio & Relic license, no picture or fingerprint information required. Just had to print a second copy to mail to my local chief LEO. Total cost was $30 plus two stamps.

Shocked to receive my COE approval and number today (two days after application). I expected it to take a month at minimum. For the FFL, I have been told the waiting period is 60-90 days.

Total time spent...four hours including the drive over to the college PD and the wait time. Total cost...$121.

Once I have the COE and FFL, I will be able to have ammo shipped to my doorstep again. The COE also waives the 30-day between purchases limitation on handguns.

So, not excruciatingly expensive or onerous to get (although I wouldn't call it cheap), but to me it's worth it to be able to give a big **** You to the state and their backdoor attack on 2A.


California LiveScan Service Form
https://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/a...s/bcia8016.pdf

LiveScan Location list (and operator costs)
https://oag.ca.gov/fingerprints/locations

Federal FFL application
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/fo...31016/download

Federal FFL application instructions
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/instruc...rearms-license
Great info. I need this asap.
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  #10  
Old 07-14-2019, 9:33 AM
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I've had a C&R for over 10 years now. They're the most expensive thing you'll get. When you can legally cash and carry guns, you find yourself buying a lot more.
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eh why bring logic into this, that makes too much sense... besides when you have bested a fool, you have accomplished nothing and he is a fool.
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  #11  
Old 07-14-2019, 9:36 AM
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I've thought about doing this but I can't help feeling that as soon as I do- the state will close this loophole.
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  #12  
Old 07-14-2019, 9:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gryff View Post
Finally decided to pull the trigger (figuratively) on getting my California Certificate of Eligibility and my federal Type 03 FFL (Curio & Relic) on Wednesday.

Had the LiveScan fingerprints for the COE done at my local college PD department. Cost was $91 (including their $20 fee).

Filled out the COE application on the CFARS website. I was pleasingly surprised to discover that the $91 Livescan fee included the COE application fee. So no additional cost there.

Filled out the downloadable PDF for the FFL application. Since I was applying for the Curio & Relic license, no picture or fingerprint information required. Just had to print a second copy to mail to my local chief LEO. Total cost was $30 plus two stamps.

Shocked to receive my COE approval and number today (two days after application). I expected it to take a month at minimum. For the FFL, I have been told the waiting period is 60-90 days.

Total time spent...four hours including the drive over to the college PD and the wait time. Total cost...$121.

Once I have the COE and FFL, I will be able to have ammo shipped to my doorstep again. The COE also waives the 30-day between purchases limitation on handguns.

So, not excruciatingly expensive or onerous to get (although I wouldn't call it cheap), but to me it's worth it to be able to give a big **** You to the state and their backdoor attack on 2A.


California LiveScan Service Form
https://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/a...s/bcia8016.pdf

LiveScan Location list (and operator costs)
https://oag.ca.gov/fingerprints/locations

Federal FFL application
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/fo...31016/download

Federal FFL application instructions
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/instruc...rearms-license
Wait until you see the cool charge that hits your credit card for the 03...
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  #13  
Old 07-14-2019, 10:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NATO762 View Post
It's unfortunate unconstitutional the ammo law was not written with a exemption for just obtaining a COE to receive doorstep ammo deliveries.

FIFY
FIFY
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  #14  
Old 07-14-2019, 12:12 PM
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using an ffl03/COE to buy ammo isn’t a “loophole.”

A loophole is exploiting ambiguity in a law. There is no ambiguity here. The law clearly states that ffl03/COE holders are exempt from the ammo restrictions.
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  #15  
Old 07-14-2019, 12:17 PM
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Sorry if this is an old question but I've never looked into an 03 FFL. Does your head of local law enforcement have to sign off on/approve this? City? Fine to have out of your home with no business license or address? And do it's terms allow for inspection of your home and collection from time to time? Thanks.
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  #16  
Old 07-14-2019, 12:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by faterikcartman View Post
Sorry if this is an old question but I've never looked into an 03 FFL. Does your head of local law enforcement have to sign off on/approve this? City? Fine to have out of your home with no business license or address? And do it's terms allow for inspection of your home and collection from time to time? Thanks.
They don't don't have to sign off. You simply send your local top cop a letter you are going FFL03 that they probably round file.
I suppose this gives them the chance to shoot you down if you have been on record with the local police as a concern.

No business address/license is necessary because FFL03 is not a business, it's for collectors, legally able to buy and sell to improve their collections.

You may... rarely if ever... need to prove your bound book logs match your collection. Nobody will surprise you with an inspection at home. You may go to their location or arrange to have them come to yours.
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  #17  
Old 07-14-2019, 12:47 PM
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OP might want to change the subject phrasing.
Don't want to give the over eager Sacramento politicians
some kind of false impression or to use a false perception that FFL03
holders are skirting around the law or getting around hoops.

FFL03/COE holders are of course complying fully on the federal and state level
with the law and actually going through some substantial hoops well beyond the average citizen buying ammo.
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Old 07-14-2019, 11:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CessnaDriver View Post
They don't don't have to sign off. You simply send your local top cop a letter you are going FFL03 that they probably round file.
I suppose this gives them the chance to shoot you down if you have been on record with the local police as a concern.

No business address/license is necessary because FFL03 is not a business, it's for collectors, legally able to buy and sell to improve their collections.

You may... rarely if ever... need to prove your bound book logs match your collection. Nobody will surprise you with an inspection at home. You may go to their location or arrange to have them come to yours.
Thank you for the info matey!
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Old 07-15-2019, 5:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boopiejones View Post
using an ffl03/COE to buy ammo isn’t a “loophole.”

A loophole is exploiting ambiguity in a law. There is no ambiguity here. The law clearly states that ffl03/COE holders are exempt from the ammo restrictions.
The law should have included concealed carry holders as well.
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  #20  
Old 07-16-2019, 12:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CessnaDriver View Post
They don't don't have to sign off. You simply send your local top cop a letter you are going FFL03 that they probably round file.
I suppose this gives them the chance to shoot you down if you have been on record with the local police as a concern.

No business address/license is necessary because FFL03 is not a business, it's for collectors, legally able to buy and sell to improve their collections.

You may... rarely if ever... need to prove your bound book logs match your collection. Nobody will surprise you with an inspection at home. You may go to their location or arrange to have them come to yours.
Speaking of the bound book... what happens if you elect to let your ffl03 and COE lapse? Do you just keep the bound book and the guns as-is? Or do you need to take the guns to an 01 for registration?
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  #21  
Old 07-16-2019, 2:46 PM
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You put it in the barbecue throw some gasoline on it and burn it
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  #22  
Old 07-16-2019, 5:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boopiejones View Post
... Or do you need to take the guns to an 01 for registration?
Guns were already registered by you ... if you did things right.

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  #23  
Old 07-16-2019, 5:41 PM
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Originally Posted by BrokerB View Post
You put it in the barbecue throw some gasoline on it and burn it
Heard some people do this then reapply for FFL03. Sort of clear the books and start over.
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Old 07-17-2019, 11:42 AM
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Im renewing my COE and C & R. I had to redo live scan because I let my initial one lapse so I had to apply as a new one. In LA County which address do I send it to certified mail for Sheriff Jim McDonnell?

Last edited by CAGLS; 07-17-2019 at 11:53 AM..
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  #25  
Old 07-17-2019, 1:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CAGLS View Post
Im renewing my COE and C & R. I had to redo live scan because I let my initial one lapse so I had to apply as a new one. In LA County which address do I send it to certified mail for Sheriff Jim McDonnell?
Alex Villanueva is now sheriff of LA County. According to their website, the main mailing address is:

Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department
211 W Temple St, Los Angeles, CA 90012
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Old 07-17-2019, 2:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gryff View Post
Alex Villanueva is now sheriff of LA County. According to their website, the main mailing address is:

Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department
211 W Temple St, Los Angeles, CA 90012
Just checked my 03FFL C&R is still good till April 1,2021.
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  #27  
Old 07-17-2019, 2:36 PM
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like the OP my COE was quick, about 2 days and done electronically. got *.pdf files of the cert and a letter from the AG.

FFL03, my CC has been charged. it's been 1.5months. can't wait to test out TSUSA purchase when this is done.
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Old 07-18-2019, 1:18 AM
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I already have my COE because i work at an FFL and was going to go this route, but if i no longer work for the ffl later on, would i be able to transfer the coe or would i have to start over and get a new one with a new livescan etc?
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Old 08-01-2019, 6:45 AM
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Default COE/FFL03

Any way to check the FFL03 status of approval. I already have approval for the COE. Called the ATF office and they said they don't have a tracking method.

Thanks
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Old 08-01-2019, 6:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gryff View Post
Finally decided to pull the trigger (figuratively) on getting my California Certificate of Eligibility and my federal Type 03 FFL (Curio & Relic) on Wednesday.

Had the LiveScan fingerprints for the COE done at my local college PD department. Cost was $91 (including their $20 fee).

Filled out the COE application on the CFARS website. I was pleasingly surprised to discover that the $91 Livescan fee included the COE application fee. So no additional cost there.

Filled out the downloadable PDF for the FFL application. Since I was applying for the Curio & Relic license, no picture or fingerprint information required. Just had to print a second copy to mail to my local chief LEO. Total cost was $30 plus two stamps.

Shocked to receive my COE approval and number today (two days after application). I expected it to take a month at minimum. For the FFL, I have been told the waiting period is 60-90 days.

Total time spent...four hours including the drive over to the college PD and the wait time. Total cost...$121.

Once I have the COE and FFL, I will be able to have ammo shipped to my doorstep again. The COE also waives the 30-day between purchases limitation on handguns.

So, not excruciatingly expensive or onerous to get (although I wouldn't call it cheap), but to me it's worth it to be able to give a big **** You to the state and their backdoor attack on 2A.


California LiveScan Service Form
https://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/a...s/bcia8016.pdf

LiveScan Location list (and operator costs)
https://oag.ca.gov/fingerprints/locations

Federal FFL application
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/fo...31016/download

Federal FFL application instructions
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/instruc...rearms-license

Thanks for Sharing...did the same myself...COE approved...just waiting on AFT for FFL 03
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  #31  
Old 08-02-2019, 11:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mochoo View Post
Called the ATF office and they said they don't have a tracking method.
You answered your own question.
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Old 08-02-2019, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CessnaDriver View Post
OP might want to change the subject phrasing.
Don't want to give the over eager Sacramento politicians
some kind of false impression or to use a false perception that FFL03
holders are skirting around the law or getting around hoops.

FFL03/COE holders are of course complying fully on the federal and state level
with the law and actually going through some substantial hoops well beyond the average citizen buying ammo.
I could not agree more with you.
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  #33  
Old 08-02-2019, 2:24 PM
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When they site 03 holder with buying more ammo that he can possibly use and selling it to friends will be ran at the media the same as spooky Ghost Guns!!!!

Its sad to see some pigs are more equal then others. Reminds me of "off roster" buying privileges..and police not speaking up against their own when the bosses support disarming non law enforcement.... "protect their medical/pensions " over the constitution.


They jerks under the white dome are dividing and conquering well.
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  #34  
Old 08-02-2019, 3:01 PM
Sousuke Sousuke is offline
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Originally Posted by BrokerB View Post
When they site 03 holder with buying more ammo that he can possibly use and selling it to friends will be ran at the media the same as spooky Ghost Guns!!!!

Its sad to see some pigs are more equal then others. Reminds me of "off roster" buying privileges..and police not speaking up against their own when the bosses support disarming non law enforcement.... "protect their medical/pensions " over the constitution.


They jerks under the white dome are dividing and conquering well.
Apparently the CADOJ is pretending the exemption does not even exist.
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  #35  
Old 08-02-2019, 4:11 PM
NATEWA NATEWA is offline
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Total cost of $121.

How long are COE/FFL03 valid for? When you renew, what’s the cost?
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  #36  
Old 08-02-2019, 5:08 PM
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ar15barrels ar15barrels is offline
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How long are COE/FFL03 valid for?
When you renew, what’s the cost?
COE is 1 year.
Renewal is $22.
03 is 3 years.
Renewal is $30.
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  #37  
Old 08-02-2019, 5:10 PM
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Total cost of $121.

How long are COE/FFL03 valid for? When you renew, what’s the cost?
COE - annual renewal - $22
03 FFL - three years - $30
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  #38  
Old 08-17-2019, 12:38 PM
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Received the 03 FFL middle of last week. Total elapsed time on the process...five weeks.
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Old 08-17-2019, 12:49 PM
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DDRH DDRH is offline
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Received the 03 FFL middle of last week. Total elapsed time on the process...five weeks.
Nice! Also got my FFL03 last week. It took about 12 weeks for me. CC was charged end of May.
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Old 08-17-2019, 9:53 PM
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