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National 2nd Amend. Political & Legal Discussion Discuss national gun rights and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1  
Old 04-02-2021, 6:14 AM
Liberty Belle Liberty Belle is offline
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Default Passed in AZ Sent to Governor for Sig !!

Number: AZ [R] HB 2111 - Updated (Status 04/01/2021)
Sponsor: Leo Biasiucci
Title: 2nd amendment; unenforceable federal laws
Status: Transmit to Governor - 03/31/2021
Position: Support
Summary:
Proposes that any act, law, treaty, rule or regulation of the U.S. Government that violates the Second Amendment would be unenforceable in Arizona. Additionally, state and local government resources could not be used to enforce any act, law, treaty, rule or regulation of the U.S. Government that violates the Second Amendment.
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  #2  
Old 04-02-2021, 6:17 AM
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For those that are interested, you can see all current bills for AZ here:

https://azcdl.org/bill-tracking/
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  #3  
Old 04-02-2021, 6:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liberty Belle View Post
Number: AZ [R] HB 2111 - Updated (Status 04/01/2021)
Sponsor: Leo Biasiucci
Title: 2nd amendment; unenforceable federal laws
Status: Transmit to Governor - 03/31/2021
Position: Support
Summary:
Proposes that any act, law, treaty, rule or regulation of the U.S. Government that violates the Second Amendment would be unenforceable in Arizona. Additionally, state and local government resources could not be used to enforce any act, law, treaty, rule or regulation of the U.S. Government that violates the Second Amendment.
Good job Arizona !
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  #4  
Old 04-02-2021, 6:29 AM
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Well that's something, AZ has been disappointing in elections of course.
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  #5  
Old 04-02-2021, 9:43 AM
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I like how it sounds and respect the "spirit" that I believe it reflects.

But..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Liberty Belle View Post
... that any act, law, treaty, rule or regulation of the U.S. Government that violates the Second Amendment would be unenforceable in Arizona...

Who/how determines what violates the 2A? That is traditionally the purview of SCOTUS and if THEY determine it goes against the 2A it is not enforced.

Haven't read the meat, but is there anything that clarifies that the Supreme Court of Arizona will determine whether or not something goes against the 2A?
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  #6  
Old 04-02-2021, 10:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SailorDan View Post
I like how it sounds and respect the "spirit" that I believe it reflects.

But..




Who/how determines what violates the 2A? That is traditionally the purview of SCOTUS and if THEY determine it goes against the 2A it is not enforced.

Haven't read the meat, but is there anything that clarifies that the Supreme Court of Arizona will determine whether or not something goes against the 2A?
Of course not. The right or red states or republicans or whatever you call it don't believe they have any legitimacy themselves, any sovereignty, or the right to any preference because they simply want it so. It always has to come from another entity that is prone to or already captured by their enemies so they will never be able to legitimately act.

Quote:
Oklahoma moved in a direction to set the right up for right wing nullification of the federal government. If an EO is unconstitutional, Oklahoma can disregard it. This sets up the stupid out for the feds where once the Supreme Court magically finds a constitutional basis for an EO that shucks, Oklahoma you cannot deny it. It does allow for picking and choosing within the territory, which per Justice Gorsuch might be half the state. This formally allows a red state, and if others follow entire regions, to nullify federal laws and orders. The likelihood of it holding up is low.
This is ALWAYS what happens when the right attempts to put their foot down. Their legitimacy or threshold for action is determined by their enemies.

This Arizona bill IS slightly better:
"PURSUANT TO THE SOVEREIGN AUTHORITY OF THIS STATE AND ARTICLE II, SECTION 3, CONSTITUTION OF ARIZONA,"
but doesn't not specify the judicial body responsible so likely devolves to Arizona Supreme Court.


1960 Voters approved the Modern Courts Amendment, which amended Article VI and:

Gave the Supreme Court administrative supervision over all the courts of the state.
Gave the Supreme Court authority to make rules governing all procedural matters in any court.

1974 Voters approved merit selection and retention election of justices for the Supreme Court and judges for the Court of Appeals.

https://www.azcourts.gov/guidetoazco...e-Court-System

Technically speaking this is about as good as you can ask for. A plebiscite or vote to ratify judge's rulings or appealing that immediately or allowing recall elections or making the pain felt immediately for voting wrong would be better, but this is about the best case scenario we can expect these days.
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  #7  
Old 04-02-2021, 10:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SailorDan View Post
I like how it sounds and respect the "spirit" that I believe it reflects.

But..




Who/how determines what violates the 2A? That is traditionally the purview of SCOTUS and if THEY determine it goes against the 2A it is not enforced.

Haven't read the meat, but is there anything that clarifies that the Supreme Court of Arizona will determine whether or not something goes against the 2A?
We have Constitution Carry. It's in our state constitution and is the law of AZ. Constitutional Carry is detailed in our law. That's what determines whether something is an infringment or not
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  #8  
Old 04-03-2021, 12:16 PM
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NFA is an infringement. Prohibition of full auto is an infringement.
Until I can go to AZ and buy a machine gun, something that is clearly protected by 2A, it is all talk and posturing.
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  #9  
Old 04-03-2021, 12:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Offwidth View Post
NFA is an infringement. Prohibition of full auto is an infringement.
Until I can go to AZ and buy a machine gun, something that is clearly protected by 2A, it is all talk and posturing.
No, until Az is willing to engage feds playing hardball with them whether by actual agents, actual FBI raids, actual Az officials getting no-knock warrants executed, actual cut off of federal funds- and Arizona stands against it- it is talk and posturing.

You're presupposing the outcome where Az wins the fight that comes after talk and posturing. It moves from talk and posturing to real when the fight starts, not when it ends.
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  #10  
Old 04-03-2021, 1:14 PM
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Is there enough housing in AZ to handle fifteen million refugees from California?
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  #11  
Old 04-04-2021, 5:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnireland View Post
Is there enough housing in AZ to handle fifteen million refugees from California?
You mean latin america...
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  #12  
Old 04-04-2021, 6:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Offwidth View Post
NFA is an infringement. Prohibition of full auto is an infringement.
Until I can go to AZ and buy a machine gun, something that is clearly protected by 2A, it is all talk and posturing.


QFT


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  #13  
Old 04-04-2021, 6:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Offwidth View Post
NFA is an infringement. Prohibition of full auto is an infringement.
Until I can go to AZ and buy a machine gun, something that is clearly protected by 2A, it is all talk and posturing.
That's similar to what I posted about the other one from Arkansas.

Also, what's with the tough talk and posturing now? I'm just a bit skeptical regarding all of these Republican politicians who did nothing to contest a clearly fraudulent 2020 general election.
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  #14  
Old 04-04-2021, 9:09 PM
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But it does send a clear message.
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  #15  
Old 04-04-2021, 9:39 PM
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I applaud AZ and am glad they did this.

That said, it sounds a lot like sanctuary states and how they treat illegals. When we as a country get so polarized that we make laws like this it won't be long before CW2 goes down. Not saying it doesn't need to or that I'm hoping that it will. Just saying its looking inevitable.
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  #16  
Old 04-05-2021, 7:44 AM
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Gun shops and all other FFL 01 etc. holders will follow federal law. As they did for the 10 year AWB.

Last edited by Dan_Eastvale; 04-08-2021 at 7:44 AM..
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  #17  
Old 04-06-2021, 7:57 PM
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Default Signed into law!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Liberty Belle View Post
Number: AZ [R] HB 2111 - Updated (Status 04/01/2021)
Sponsor: Leo Biasiucci
Title: 2nd amendment; unenforceable federal laws
Status: Transmit to Governor - 03/31/2021
Position: Support
Summary:
Proposes that any act, law, treaty, rule or regulation of the U.S. Government that violates the Second Amendment would be unenforceable in Arizona. Additionally, state and local government resources could not be used to enforce any act, law, treaty, rule or regulation of the U.S. Government that violates the Second Amendment.
Ducey signed the bill today!
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  #18  
Old 04-06-2021, 8:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liberty Belle View Post
Ducey signed the bill today!
Link please.
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  #19  
Old 04-06-2021, 8:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EBR Works View Post
Link please.
Was report by KPNX TV (NBC) 12 News reporter Brahm Resnik. It was signed with other unrelated bills on his desk late today. Press releases are starting to come out on the bills. Will post HB2111 when it's put on az.gov
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Old 04-06-2021, 8:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liberty Belle View Post
Was report by KPNX TV (NBC) 12 News reporter Brahm Resnik. It was signed with other unrelated bills on his desk late today. Press releases are starting to come out on the bills. Will post HB2111 when it's put on az.gov
Thanks!
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  #21  
Old 04-07-2021, 10:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EBR Works View Post
Thanks!
AZcdl updated their Bill Tracking page:

Number: AZ [R] HB 2111 - Updated (Ancillary 04/02/2021)
Sponsor: Leo Biasiucci
Title: 2nd amendment; unenforceable federal laws
Status: Transmit to Governor - 03/31/2021
Position: Support
Summary:
Pursuant to the sovereign authority of Arizona and Article 2, Section 3 of the Arizona Constitution, the state and all political subdivisions (i.e., agencies counties, cities, etc.) are prohibited from using any personnel or financial resources to enforce, administer or cooperate with any act, law, treaty, order, rule or regulation of the United States government this is inconsistent with any Arizona law regarding the regulation of firearms.

Comments:
SIGNED BY THE GOVERNOR - APRIL 6, 2021
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  #22  
Old 04-07-2021, 10:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lowimpactuser View Post
No, until Az is willing to engage feds playing hardball with them whether by actual agents, actual FBI raids, actual Az officials getting no-knock warrants executed, actual cut off of federal funds- and Arizona stands against it- it is talk and posturing.

You're presupposing the outcome where Az wins the fight that comes after talk and posturing. It moves from talk and posturing to real when the fight starts, not when it ends.
They cannot "engage feds playing hardball" because the Constitution, at least how it's interpreted by the SCOTUS, is on their side. The commerce clause gives them the ability to enforce federal law in AZ.

Out of curiosity, do you see "pot legalization" in the same light, where the feds will execute all sorts of raids and no-knock warrants in every state that "legalized" pot? Or where there are "sanctuary cities" for illegal immigration and local politicians warn the communities when the feds are coming?
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  #23  
Old 04-07-2021, 11:18 AM
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I would think that pro 2A folks living in an anti 2A state would support actions taken by free states. At least we are doing something to defend our Rights instead of criticizing others for what we aren't willing to do ourselves in our own states. It should be encouragement that Bill of Rights and 10A are alive and well still elsewhere in the country. We didn't get there with sour grapes behind a keyboard. We support our 2A fighter org, AZcdl, who are honey badgers. You have fighters in CA too. Get behind them and FIGHT.
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  #24  
Old 04-07-2021, 11:37 AM
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Have been waiting on this one. Glad to see it went all the way through. Ducey is not my favorite person here.
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  #25  
Old 04-07-2021, 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by daveinwoodland View Post
Have been waiting on this one. Glad to see it went all the way through. Ducey is not my favorite person here.
Ducey is a RINO POS. There is a recall movement against him and he knows he is toast after the election fraud he signed.
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  #26  
Old 04-07-2021, 7:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liberty Belle View Post
AZcdl updated their Bill Tracking page:

Number: AZ [R] HB 2111 - Updated (Ancillary 04/02/2021)
Sponsor: Leo Biasiucci
Title: 2nd amendment; unenforceable federal laws
Status: Transmit to Governor - 03/31/2021
Position: Support
Summary:
Pursuant to the sovereign authority of Arizona and Article 2, Section 3 of the Arizona Constitution, the state and all political subdivisions (i.e., agencies counties, cities, etc.) are prohibited from using any personnel or financial resources to enforce, administer or cooperate with any act, law, treaty, order, rule or regulation of the United States government this is inconsistent with any Arizona law regarding the regulation of firearms.

Comments:
SIGNED BY THE GOVERNOR - APRIL 6, 2021
Yep, got the email today. Reminds me I need to renew my AZCDL membership.
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  #27  
Old 04-10-2021, 6:39 PM
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HB 2111 was written using the same language Brown used in CA for illegal immigration sanctuary- which was apparently held up in court...

The author of the bill was on JT Harris' radio show yesterday... He literally used the same sanctuary bill for CA and replaced illegal immigration with 2A

Brilliant.
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