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2nd Amend. Litigation Updates & Legal Discussion Discuss California 2A related litigation and legal topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #2082  
Old 06-15-2021, 5:30 PM
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Some more excellent arguments for Sidney Thomas to ignore w/o even bothering to read them.
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  #2083  
Old 06-15-2021, 8:46 PM
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Originally Posted by curtisfong View Post
Some more excellent arguments for Sidney Thomas to ignore w/o even bothering to read them.
Not that I disagree with the sentiment, after all the mag ban ruling was stayed, but Thomas isn't necessarily on the stay panel for this month. On the other hand, unlike a flood of untraceable magazines, all new ARs sold in this state will be subject to a background check and registration with the state. The only down side for the state is that it might have to re-open the AW registration system for rifles purchased after the stay is lifted.
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  #2084  
Old 06-15-2021, 9:35 PM
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Originally Posted by TruOil View Post
Not that I disagree with the sentiment, after all the mag ban ruling was stayed, but Thomas isn't necessarily on the stay panel for this month. On the other hand, unlike a flood of untraceable magazines, all new ARs sold in this state will be subject to a background check and registration with the state. The only down side for the state is that it might have to re-open the AW registration system for rifles purchased after the stay is lifted.
Not to mention if that happens, many people still won’t register them and will continue to leave them featureless. You can’t sell them as an AW, transportation becomes burdensome, you can’t pass them on, and even if you need some small gunsmithing done you won’t be able to leave them with the gunsmith unless they have an AW permit.
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  #2085  
Old 06-15-2021, 9:38 PM
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Originally Posted by curtisfong View Post
Some more excellent arguments for Sidney Thomas to ignore w/o even bothering to read them.
Serious question - we know it's likely to happen but what can we do to recall judges who do stuff that's clearly and blatantly against the filings and rule politically?
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  #2086  
Old 06-15-2021, 10:34 PM
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Footnote 2 in the Opposition to Stay is priceless!
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  #2087  
Old 06-15-2021, 11:54 PM
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They called out the "wholly owned subsidiary of the gun lobby" quote from Newsome about judge Benitez. Does the judge have a case of defamation against the governor? Isn't he being accused of bribery from the "gun lobby"? I mean it's over thing to say the judge for it wrong. Or even suggesting the judge isn't impartial. But accusing him is a crime of bribery seems over the line, especially when speaking we the chief executive of the state. From whom in the state could an accusation of bribery carry more weight.
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  #2088  
Old 06-16-2021, 4:18 AM
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Originally Posted by NorCalAthlete View Post
Serious question - we know it's likely to happen but what can we do to recall judges who do stuff that's clearly and blatantly against the filings and rule politically?
The only way to get rid of a federal judge is through impeachment.
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  #2089  
Old 06-16-2021, 6:14 AM
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Originally Posted by kenl View Post
The only way to get rid of a federal judge is through impeachment.
It's not the only way but we don't talk about, or consider, the other methods because we are peaceful and peace loving.
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  #2090  
Old 06-16-2021, 7:11 AM
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How screwed are they if they don't get the appeals court to issue the stay by Friday like they are requesting?
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  #2091  
Old 06-16-2021, 7:19 AM
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Originally Posted by rplaw View Post
It's not the only way but we don't talk about, or consider, the other methods because we are peaceful and peace loving.
The sad irony is that people won’t use their Second Amendment rights in order to protect their Second Amendment rights. It makes you wonder what’s the point?
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  #2092  
Old 06-16-2021, 8:05 AM
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There a new document,

Quote:
Filed (ECF) Appellants Rob Bonta and Luis Lopez reply to response (). Date of service: 06/16/2021. [12145585] [21-55608] (Echeverria, John) [Entered: 06/16/2021 08:43 AM]
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  #2093  
Old 06-16-2021, 8:10 AM
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Here's the response.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf California_Response.pdf (237.8 KB, 98 views)
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  #2094  
Old 06-16-2021, 8:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TruOil View Post
On the other hand, unlike a flood of untraceable magazines, all new ARs sold in this state will be subject to a background check and registration with the state.
It's cute how Sydney Thomas thought that staying Duncan was going to stop magazines from coming into the state I suspect all it did was stop people from making traceable (online/store) purchases, and go back to the old ways of doing it.

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Originally Posted by "pot" View Post
The sad irony is that people won’t use their Second Amendment rights in order to protect their Second Amendment rights. It makes you wonder what’s the point?
"Why are all you kettles so black??"
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AW Reg. will likely be reopened summer '21 to those who weren't able to register by 7/18. We don't know what that means for firearms made compliant when reg. failed or if they can or must be converted to AW configuration before registering. There's a moratorium on prosecutions for possession of AWs which were eligible for registration, but AWs acquired after 2016 can still be prosecuted!
Extremely important note: DON'T register anything acquired after 2016!!!

Last edited by CandG; 06-16-2021 at 8:22 AM..
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  #2095  
Old 06-16-2021, 8:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abinsinia View Post
Here's the response.
So, the State is asking for a stay pending En Banc without even knowing what the appeals court will say???

Has this happened before?
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  #2096  
Old 06-16-2021, 8:26 AM
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Originally Posted by taperxz View Post
So, the State is asking for a stay pending En Banc without even knowing what the appeals court will say???

Has this happened before?
Fairly normal. What their request says is,

Quote:
In the event that a three-judge panel denies a stay, Defendants
respectfully request an administrative stay to preserve the status quo until
such time as Defendants have had an opportunity to seek further relief from
the en banc Court or the Supreme Court.
Basically they're just covering their bases - they think they'll win, but in case they don't, they want alternative relief in the form of an extension of the stay until the en banc request and trial (if granted) is complete.
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AW Reg. will likely be reopened summer '21 to those who weren't able to register by 7/18. We don't know what that means for firearms made compliant when reg. failed or if they can or must be converted to AW configuration before registering. There's a moratorium on prosecutions for possession of AWs which were eligible for registration, but AWs acquired after 2016 can still be prosecuted!
Extremely important note: DON'T register anything acquired after 2016!!!
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  #2097  
Old 06-16-2021, 8:31 AM
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Is the 18th a federal Juneteenth holiday ? There was a recent vote in the Senate.

EDIT: Looks line no.

So they have 3 days including today to rule on this.

Last edited by abinsinia; 06-16-2021 at 8:34 AM..
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  #2098  
Old 06-16-2021, 9:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abinsinia View Post
Here's the response.
Typical AG whine about how the world is going to end unless the appeals court continues to deny the people their Constitutional Rights by staying the case until the appeals court can overturn it via the shenanigans they've been using for decades now.
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  #2099  
Old 06-16-2021, 9:45 AM
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REPLY BRIEF IN SUPPORT OF EMERGENCY MOTION UNDER CIRCUIT RULE 27-3 TO STAY JUDGMENT PENDING APPEAL
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  #2100  
Old 06-16-2021, 11:02 AM
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So, did the 9th stay? Trying to read this on a cell phone is difficult.
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  #2101  
Old 06-16-2021, 11:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gobler View Post
So, did the 9th stay? Trying to read this on a cell phone is difficult.
Not yet - but remember Benitez stayed the ruling for 30 days when he issued it.
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  #2102  
Old 06-16-2021, 11:19 AM
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So really no just cause for an emergency stay there is already one in place.
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  #2103  
Old 06-16-2021, 11:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abinsinia View Post
Here's the response.
The final paragraph:

Quote:
That is what California’s
AWCA has done for over three decades: helping to protect the public from
preventable gun violence while respecting the core right of law-abiding
citizens to possess authorized firearms
for armed self-defense in the home.
The AWCA has not prevented a single crime committed with an AW. Most recent ones come to mind are Gilroy Garlic Festival and San Bernardino, there are many more. I love the highlighted phrase as well... with the word "authorized" negating the word "respecting".
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  #2104  
Old 06-16-2021, 11:32 AM
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agrea
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  #2105  
Old 06-16-2021, 11:46 AM
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Once again, they are talking in circles. As the plaintiffs explained, what CA defines as an AW is not an "exceptionally lethal weapon of war". And they continue to assert that without any evidence.


Quote:
But there is nothing farcical or absurd about saving lives by preventing
criminals—especially those who would perpetrate a mass shooting—from
obtaining “exceptionally lethal weapons of war.”
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  #2106  
Old 06-16-2021, 12:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CandG View Post
Fairly normal. What their request says is,







Basically they're just covering their bases - they think they'll win, but in case they don't, they want alternative relief in the form of an extension of the stay until the en banc request and trial (if granted) is complete.
I don't know court procedures but this feels highly irregular.
When can you go to court and request a stay when one already exists.
And then further say you intend to appeal when the appeal hasn't even been granted. An appeal is not actually assured the judge has discretion as to whether to grant leave to appeal.

The 9th with no doubt re invent the English language and say the state has a rational basis to try something, anything to prevent gun deaths even if it doesn't prevent crimes committed with guns.
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  #2107  
Old 06-16-2021, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by darkwater34 View Post
So really no just cause for an emergency stay there is already one in place.
Since the existing stay is only good for 30 days, that justifies an "emergency", (at least from their viewpoint). A standard motion for a stay could take months.

Granted, I agree that it absolutely is not an emergency in the traditional sense of the word, but from a legal process standpoint, it qualifies as one.
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AW Reg. will likely be reopened summer '21 to those who weren't able to register by 7/18. We don't know what that means for firearms made compliant when reg. failed or if they can or must be converted to AW configuration before registering. There's a moratorium on prosecutions for possession of AWs which were eligible for registration, but AWs acquired after 2016 can still be prosecuted!
Extremely important note: DON'T register anything acquired after 2016!!!
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  #2108  
Old 06-16-2021, 1:28 PM
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There have been many comments here about Judge Benitez comparing an AR-15 to a Swiss Army Knife, and the media is lighting their hair on fire over it. It was surprising to me - and has been bewildering and amusing - how the left has fixated on that. I thought, "Are they trying to gaslight us into believing that half the nation has suddenly forgotten the mechanics of an analogy?"

This is the point of an analogy: in some way, every single thing is like any other thing; and in some other way, nothing is like anything else. How that statement is offensive confounds me.

If I asked you to write down the ways in which a butterfly was like a chainsaw, a smart person could write down some things. A dumb person would say, "Are you telling me chainsaws fly?!?" SIGH. Our ability to draw comparisons - and to flesh out the limits of those comparisons - is an important intellectual tool.

In not recognizing that, the folks who are theatrically pretending to be offended by saying "But Swiss Army Knives don't spray bullets!!1!1" are being intellectually lazy, and it's exhausting.
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  #2109  
Old 06-16-2021, 1:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pratchett View Post
If I asked you to write down the ways in which a butterfly was like a chainsaw, a smart person could write down some things.
Both can be orange.



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  #2110  
Old 06-16-2021, 1:40 PM
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Originally Posted by pratchett View Post
There have been many comments here about Judge Benitez comparing an AR-15 to a Swiss Army Knife, and the media is lighting their hair on fire over it. It was surprising to me - and has been bewildering and amusing - how the left has fixated on that.
I can tell you exactly why they're all fixated on that part.

Because it's the first sentence, and they didn't read beyond that, but they still feel qualified to opine on the remaining 93.5 pages anyways.
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AW Reg. will likely be reopened summer '21 to those who weren't able to register by 7/18. We don't know what that means for firearms made compliant when reg. failed or if they can or must be converted to AW configuration before registering. There's a moratorium on prosecutions for possession of AWs which were eligible for registration, but AWs acquired after 2016 can still be prosecuted!
Extremely important note: DON'T register anything acquired after 2016!!!

Last edited by CandG; 06-16-2021 at 1:48 PM..
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  #2111  
Old 06-16-2021, 2:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pratchett View Post
...
"But Swiss Army Knives don't spray bullets!!!" ...
All the more reason to own an AR rather than a Swiss Army Knife, especially one that has all of the normal features!
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  #2112  
Old 06-16-2021, 2:16 PM
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IDK if this has been asked, but if this goes through, would .50 BMG rifles become legal, or is that a different penal code not covered by this ruling?
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  #2113  
Old 06-16-2021, 3:06 PM
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.50 BMGs are a different law.
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Old 06-16-2021, 3:11 PM
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Originally Posted by CGZ View Post
IDK if this has been asked, but if this goes through, would .50 BMG rifles become legal, or is that a different penal code not covered by this ruling?
.50 BMG seems not to have been challenged.

Quote:

(a) Any person who, within this state, manufactures or causes to be manufactured, distributes, transports, or imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives or lends any assault weapon or any .50 BMG rifle, except as provided by this chapter, is guilty of a felony, and upon conviction shall be punished by imprisonment pursuant to subdivision (h) of Section 1170 for four, six, or eight years.

(b) In addition and consecutive to the punishment imposed under subdivision (a), any person who transfers, lends, sells, or gives any assault weapon or any .50 BMG rifle to a minor in violation of subdivision (a) shall receive an enhancement of imprisonment pursuant to subdivision (h) of Section 1170 of one year.

(c) Except in the case of a first violation involving not more than two firearms as provided in Sections 30605 and 30610, for purposes of this article, if more than one assault weapon or .50 BMG rifle is involved in any violation of this article, there shall be a distinct and separate offense for each.
Quote:
2. California Penal Code §§ 30515(a)(1) through (8) (defining an “assault weapon” by prohibited features), 30800 (deeming certain “assault weapons” a public nuisance), 30915 (regulating “assault weapons” obtained by bequest or inheritance), 30925 (restricting importation of “assault weapons” by new residents), 30945 (restricting use of registered “assault weapons”), and 30950 (prohibiting possession of “assault weapons” by minors), and the penalty provisions §§ 30600, 30605 and 30800 as applied to “assault weapons” defined in Code §§ 30515(a)(1) through (8) are hereby declared unconstitutional and shall be enjoined.
The referenced code distinguishes between 'assault weapon' and '.50 BMG rifle', so the answer to your question seems to be NO.
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  #2115  
Old 06-16-2021, 3:14 PM
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Quote:
Plaintiffs would apparently require States to allow individuals to keep and bear any dangerous weapon—from assault weapons to M-16s to bazookas— merely because the weapon’s lethal features might theoretically contribute to
self-defense in some circumstances.
Can't decide if this was just creative writing, or if AG lies to themselves so much they actually believe this is what's on the line. Either way, it must hurt to be so far left.
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Old 06-16-2021, 4:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyphr02 View Post
Can't decide if this was just creative writing, or if AG lies to themselves so much they actually believe this is what's on the line. Either way, it must hurt to be so far left.
Quote:
Plaintiffs would apparently require States to allow individuals to keep and bear any dangerous weapon—from assault weapons to M-16s to bazookas— merely because the weapon’s lethal features might theoretically contribute to
self-defense in some circumstances.
AG continues to be confused.
  • Every weapon is dangerous by design.
  • All M-16s are assault weapons but assault weapons are not all M-16s
  • Who mentioned bazookas?
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Last edited by ShadowGuy; 06-16-2021 at 4:11 PM..
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  #2117  
Old 06-16-2021, 4:16 PM
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Originally Posted by CGZ View Post
IDK if this has been asked, but if this goes through, would .50 BMG rifles become legal, or is that a different penal code not covered by this ruling?
One could use the argument the Judge Benitez made in reference to tazers. If SCOTUS found 200,000 is "in common use" find out how many. 50 bmgs are in the wild..
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  #2118  
Old 06-16-2021, 4:36 PM
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Originally Posted by CandG View Post
Since the existing stay is only good for 30 days, that justifies an "emergency", (at least from their viewpoint). A standard motion for a stay could take months.

Granted, I agree that it absolutely is not an emergency in the traditional sense of the word, but from a legal process standpoint, it qualifies as one.
I think from a legal process standpoint, the 9th's own rules set an emergency as 21 days or less, making the 30 days not an emergency.
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Old 06-16-2021, 5:27 PM
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Originally Posted by HibikiR View Post
I think from a legal process standpoint, the 9th's own rules set an emergency as 21 days or less, making the 30 days not an emergency.
Yeah right. Since when has it mattered what their “rules” say?
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Old 06-16-2021, 5:38 PM
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Originally Posted by mshill View Post
I love the highlighted phrase as well... with the word "authorized" negating the word "respecting".
A right to own something authorized is a permission. It's a bill of rights, not a bill of needs of a bill of permissions. A point that escapes the overlords...
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