Hard/Fast rules for OLL travel

[Dangerpin]

Ignorant or fishing, more likely the latter. Trying to get you to open your mouth and give them reason to investigate further, at best. At worst try to get you to incriminate yourself.

The real problem with this is it comes off as ignorance and arrogance and leaves a huge negative wake. If you were unknowledgeable about they law you could say, "A law enforcement officer told me that having a gun in your car was illegal." And FUD spreads.

I know why LEOs do it, it is such an amazingly successful tactic from what I hear. I just wish they could see all the downsides.

[diginit]

Causing law abiding citizens to dislike and distrust LE. Making MORE enemies of their "used to be" backup. Yes. There certainly is a downside.

[stshooter]

This is why so many folks dislike and fear police,I understand why the officer was careful,but dont be a tool I think you should write a formal complaint letter and detail the experience to there department

[kel-tec-innovations]

DON'T TALK TO COPS, ADVICE FROM LAWYER

[SID45]

You did very well!!! A LEO can make up something and lie about it, just like what he said that "its is illegal to have a firearm in the vehicle. " Anything just to make you say something that would get you in trouble.

[packnrat]

i am just glad i did not get asked about guns a couple years back. i was moving some of my rifles and pistols....must have had a good thirty of them in the truck....yes that many at one time. no joke. (and ammo)...
got pulled over had my lights on was not so good weather some miles back it was daylight and i had a plate light out...just a reason for a bored cop to pull me over. might have thought i was on the way to dump some junk. as the bed was full and under a tarp.
no ticket just a talking to. otherwise i handled it just by the book, yes sir...no sir.. only a very short answer to all questions..NO general talking. both doors locked. manual windows.






.

[Cokebottle]

Originally Posted by packnrat

otherwise i handled it just by the book, yes sir...no sir.. only a very short answer to all questions..NO general talking. both doors locked. manual windows.

And 9 times out of 10, that's exactly how it's handled.

[kel-tec-innovations]

So basically when a Cop ask you if you have a firearms in your vehicle you should just answer I have nothing illegal in the car ?

[RivCoFireman]

Instead of "I have nothing illegal in my car" Which seems like evading to me. Whats wrong with invoking your 5th amendment right against self-incrimination? Afterall, anything you say can and will be used against you. Merely invoking doesn't give PC, does it?

[BAGunner]

When confronted with "Do you have firearms in your vehicle", can you counter that with "Is it OK to record our conversation?". This way, you are not being evasive... you are implying you might bring the case to the court, and use the recording as evidence. They will know that you are law-abiding and know how to defend your rights.

Based on the Cop's response "PO: When I ask you if you have any firearms it's for my survival. ", I think they are assuming you are the criminal. Putting myself in their shoes, I think "Do you mind if I record our conversation" is a good answer.

Edit: I think you can also reply with "I don't have loaded firearm", which is the truth... answers the question... and serves the cops "survival" mindset.

Chun

[Dangerpin]

Originally Posted by BAGunner

Edit: I think you can also reply with "I don't have loaded firearm", which is the truth... answers the question... and serves the cops "survival" mindset.

Chun

If you admit that you have a firearm they are allowed to do the e-check search. Even if you specify that it is unloaded. I really don't think this answer is going to lead you anywhere you want to go.

[digitalCajun]

• You can't say "no" because that's lying
• You can't say "I have nothing illegal" because you may have inadvertently broken some kind of law
• You can't say "yes" because then that's PC for a search

So what's the suggested answer here?

[Chaingun]

I had a situation 15-20 years ago while getting gas at night, a cruiser pulls up behind me and an officer jumps out accusing me of reckless driving. He then grabs the keys out of my hand and searches my vehicle, finding nothing. I received a ticket for something else, and after 1 year and going though the appeals process had the ticket thrown out by a 2nd judge.

If the officer is intent on searching your vehicle there isn't much you can do. I brought it up during the citation hearing with the 1st judge replying "there's a war on drugs, you do support the war on drugs?". There's only so much arguing you can do in a day.

[Chaingun]

Originally Posted by kel-tec-innovations

DON'T TALK TO COPS, ADVICE FROM LAWYER

At a friends house, a DA said "Whatever you state will be used against you in court". What you state to an officer can be misconstrued in his mind to mean something else, and he may/will use it against you in court.

[Matt C]

Originally Posted by digitalCajun

• You can't say "no" because that's lying
• You can't say "I have nothing illegal" because you may have inadvertently broken some kind of law
• You can't say "yes" because then that's PC for a search

So what's the suggested answer here?

Lying to a local (city/state/county) cop is not generally a crime [lying to a FEDERAL agent probably is though, so shut up and get a lawyer]. Certainly saying I have nothing illegal to a local cop when that seems to be the case, regardless of some unknown factor, does not seem like something likely to be prosecuted. If you are really that concerned, say nothing. Nothing can't be used against you, and it can't be used at PC for a search either, because it's just that: nothing.

Originally Posted by RivCoFireman

Instead of "I have nothing illegal in my car" Which seems like evading to me. Whats wrong with invoking your 5th amendment right against self-incrimination? Afterall, anything you say can and will be used against you. Merely invoking doesn't give PC, does it?

PC is an exception to the right to be free from search without a warrant. You don't waive one right by exercising another.

[willm952]

Mr.CRC. Agree with you on the behavior. How do you get someone to do something for you by threat of force or give them a good reason to.

You may want to check out videos on you tube by anti-terrorist. A brit but intelligent and spot on. He's basically stating that police are revenue agents.

Just look at oakland. Lay off 80 officers. Remaining do what? Write tickets for revenue collection. Expired registration tags = threat to public safety? Not by themselves. But they are a threat to the state's income. I agree on regulation such as valid dl, insurance. Do police departments need the income from tickets etc?

Check out Colima Rd. in Rowland Hts. sometime in the early to middle of the month. At once, I saw 3 chp had someone pulled over writing ticket within 2 blocks of each other. Distance wise it was less than 1 city block. This happens regularly. We need to get chp off of local streets, they don't do a damn thing for public safety on local.

OLL, I haven't been hasseled about them. Doesn't mean I won't get hasseled.

Prudent thinking to have the registration papers for the rifle with an empty mag in the mag-well and 10/20, 10/30 or that unsightly 10/30 with the poser window.

I'm always polite to any leo I run into. Don't run into very often.
But being polite, respectful of the leo's authority but assertive is much more helpful to your cause than rude and belligerent. Why needlessly provoke a situation?

Just my 2 cents.

[SoninCA]

I need help please, my son got into a traffic accident, a construction truck threw a ladder, my son swerved to avoid it and hit an wall.
My son had legal firearms stored in his trunk as he was going to the range this weekend.
The CHP at first said that none of the legally purchased (all purchased new through proper FFL) the CHP said that none of them checked out and that the CHP would confiscate all of the guns.
When my son mentioned he knew a former higher up in NRA-the handguns miraculously checked out.

BUT the two "ugly" guns did not "check" out-the excuse given was that S&W assigns the same serial number to several guns.

The CHP confiscated both CA LEGAL rifles and all of the 10 round clips.

This is about $5 Grand worth of equipment-my son is getting into three gun competition.

I am not sure where to post his I need help.

the CHP kept my son on the side of 101 for about two hours without medical care-his neck is messed up.

I am in MO and I am at wits end-how can this happen in US.

Help please.

[SoninCA]

I want to note that my son was polite and cooperative with the officers

[Cokebottle]

Have him get in touch with the Calguns Foundation ASAP.

[SoninCA]

I contacted Oaklander and Mr Weise.

both lowers on firearms are OLL and legal AND both guns comply to all laws. My son is a law abiding citizen and he made sure the firearms are legal.

they confiscated the expensive sights, too , they refused to let my son remove the sights.

My son has a hurt neck, too, muscle spasms from the accident that have his neck improperly straightened out the neck....thanks, CHP for keeping my son on the side of the freeway without medical care while they searched his clothes and confiscated his CA legal OLL firearms.

"that's beautiful"--CHP quote just prior to confiscating that "beautiful" gun.

CHP officer also said to my husband that our son was not injured-is he a doctor? If my son was not injured why did ER doctor say otherwise?

Just saying the officer my husband spoke to on the phone sure reacted weird when my husband said "you guys better not be taking those guns to the range"

not only is my son's neck and back hurt from the accident (the CHP let the truck that threw the ladder get away) but the CHP has illegally confiscated the guns AND the scopes etc AND all of the CA legal magazines-why would they take the legal magazine?

CHP refused to let my son get his scopes (trigicon) that he saved up his money for.

I am a very upset momma about now-this is so illegal-the CHP violated the law here and put my son's health at risk.

[SoninCA]

I just realized I might have made a mistake-I am understanding the OLL to mean on the legal list for CA-as my son's guns are legal.

these guys should not have kept my son on the roadside ogling his guns while my son should have been being seen by an ER doctor.

[SoninCA]

Thank you, Rich, I am sorry as tired and worried and I forgot my manners. I am very grateful that you guys are here. very grateful. I am sick about this situation just sick.

[mecam]

Originally Posted by SoninCA

I just realized I might have made a mistake-I am understanding the OLL to mean on the legal list for CA-as my son's guns are legal.

these guys should not have kept my son on the roadside ogling his guns while my son should have been being seen by an ER doctor.

Even though they were OLL, they still need to be configured legally either by using a Bullet Button or Featureless configuration. Do you know if they were legally configured?



-

[SoninCA]

Yes, my son researched it extensively, the confiscated guns were both California legal top to bottom.

[mecam]

Originally Posted by SoninCA

Yes, my son researched it extensively, the confiscated guns were both California legal top to bottom.

Interesting, you would think CHP would be educated about this by now. Which county did it happen in?

[SoninCA]

On 101 near of Sunnyvale. I think it was Santa Clara-been about a decade since we lived there, so not sure of county-it is the bullet button he has on both the rifles- 100% CA legal.
I am quite concerned about whole thing. I have terrible feeling about it all. That and my son was hurt in the accident and I am about 1800 miles away in another state.

[Cokebottle]

Originally Posted by SoninCA

I just realized I might have made a mistake-I am understanding the OLL to mean on the legal list for CA-as my son's guns are legal.

these guys should not have kept my son on the roadside ogling his guns while my son should have been being seen by an ER doctor.

OLL = Off List Lower.... you were correct in your use of the term.

I wish you the best in the resolution of this issue, and with the injury, it appears that you certainly have a case for a civil suit.

[SoninCA]

Thanks-we're getting help-kid's still in a lot of physical pain. So that is first and foremost.
Second is we just want the legal firearms returned.
Hoping that that will be the case on Monday.

[SoninCA]

Not resolved , the situation has gone from bad to worse.

[HotIce]

Originally Posted by SoninCA

Not resolved , the situation has gone from bad to worse.

Mind you (or anyone from CGF eventually following this) to elaborate as far as legally possible, about the status of this case?

[SoninCA]

Jason Davis is handling it-he is awesome! As is Calguns! Simply awesome!!!!!
Will post update when we can.

[mecam]

Originally Posted by SoninCA

Jason Davis is handling it-he is awesome! As is Calguns! Simply awesome!!!!!
Will post update when we can.

Awesome, keep us updated. CHP needs to start handing out the flowchart to all it's officers.

[SoninCA]

rifles returned today-over one month after they were confiscated and there is damage-bent charger handle and some other stuff bent and documented by camera at the station upon pick-up.
MRI results-my son has 5 herniated disks in his lower back as a result of the car accident.
I am not happy that he was detained for almost three hours without medical care.
Yes, the CHP need the flow chart and a better understanding of CA penal code.

[2Bear]

Glad you got your property back.

Here's hoping your son makes a quick and full recovery.

[HK Chef]

Just so I understand. If I have my firearms in my vehicle and get pulled over I do not have to let the officer know FIRST thing? I just want to make sure because it was mandatory if you got pulled over in Alaska to let the officer know right away before you gave any paperwork or anything.

[CSACANNONEER]

Originally Posted by HK Chef

Just so I understand. If I have my firearms in my vehicle and get pulled over I do not have to let the officer know FIRST thing? I just want to make sure because it was mandatory if you got pulled over in Alaska to let the officer know right away before you gave any paperwork or anything.

If you have a LTC, you might be required to. Since it is illegal for anyone (except those with a LTC) to have a loaded firearm in a vehicle on a public road, Ca doesn't have the same requirement that AK does. You do not have to tell a LEO that anything is or is not in your vehicle.

[HK Chef]

Thanks for the info.

[budprop]

Good info. I have been pulled over twice while transporting to the range, once on the way out to Jamul riding with a buddy of mine, and once on the way to Dulzura with my 9yo son. Both times were pleasant and we had no issues (other than the reason we were pulled over). The first time my buddies truck wasn't registered (I didn't check before I got in), he explained the issue (smog failure, 30 day fix it, new to CA due to active duty orders...he's an idiot), LE (CHP) told us to stay off the freeway or they would impound the truck. Agreed it was a beautiful day for shooting and told us a back-road way to get where we were going. Never once asked to see the firearms or even asked if they were loaded.
Second time I was pulled over due to a bad light on my jeep. LE ended up asking my son about firearms safety, complained about the never ending cash flow associated with owning a Jeep and told us to have a good day.
I am pretty savvy about my rights, and do NOT trust LE or Government to preserve/protect said rights. Even with the pleasant experiences I have had with LE and my weapons I have in both instances had my recorder on to protect and preserve my rights. I use a cool little app on my cell phone called cop recorder. It is easily started, will record as long as you have memory, runs in the background so it isn't detectable, and uploads to wherever you want it to.
Also, whenever you "sign" a ticket or official paperwork make sure you put "without prejudice UCC 1-308" near your signature.

[NorCal Einstein]

Originally Posted by budprop

Good info. I have been pulled over twice while transporting to the range, once on the way out to Jamul riding with a buddy of mine, and once on the way to Dulzura with my 9yo son. Both times were pleasant and we had no issues (other than the reason we were pulled over). The first time my buddies truck wasn't registered (I didn't check before I got in), he explained the issue (smog failure, 30 day fix it, new to CA due to active duty orders...he's an idiot), LE (CHP) told us to stay off the freeway or they would impound the truck. Agreed it was a beautiful day for shooting and told us a back-road way to get where we were going. Never once asked to see the firearms or even asked if they were loaded.
Second time I was pulled over due to a bad light on my jeep. LE ended up asking my son about firearms safety, complained about the never ending cash flow associated with owning a Jeep and told us to have a good day.
I am pretty savvy about my rights, and do NOT trust LE or Government to preserve/protect said rights. Even with the pleasant experiences I have had with LE and my weapons I have in both instances had my recorder on to protect and preserve my rights. I use a cool little app on my cell phone called cop recorder. It is easily started, will record as long as you have memory, runs in the background so it isn't detectable, and uploads to wherever you want it to.
Also, whenever you "sign" a ticket or official paperwork make sure you put "without prejudice UCC 1-308" near your signature.

I thought I could figure out what UUC 1-308 means with some quick searching, but it looks like it would take a whole day of reading to really understand what it means before I start to consider adding it to my signature when signing traffic tickets.

[budprop]

Basically UCC 1-308 retains your common law rights. This is not the arena to discuss this but do a little reading to learn the basics. Your eyes will be opened.