What is the procedure for obtaining a CCW in Sacramento County?

[Toolbox X]

I would not recommend mailing your application. Amber goes over the application with you when you turn it in to make sure it is filled out correctly.

[haveyourmile]

Originally Posted by Toolbox X

I would not recommend mailing your application. Amber goes over the application with you when you turn it in to make sure it is filled out correctly.

Ugh. I'm so frustrated over so much conflicting advice. I went ahead and mailed it yesterday but I'm feeling really unsure about the whole thing.

[jb7706]

Originally Posted by haveyourmile

Ugh. I'm so frustrated over so much conflicting advice. I went ahead and mailed it yesterday but I'm feeling really unsure about the whole thing.

I would not sweat it, one way or another we will all get there sooner or later. I have a feeling in my bones.

[Gray Peterson]

Originally Posted by haveyourmile

Ugh. I'm so frustrated over so much conflicting advice. I went ahead and mailed it yesterday but I'm feeling really unsure about the whole thing.

I sent you a PM. Chill. Btw, also, follow the advice of the person by refusing to press a number and wait for the operator. That's a terrible phone system, btw.

[Lone_Gunman]

Gray,
Did Amber ever return that email you sent asking her why she wasn't picking up the phone?

[Gray Peterson]

I think it's a malfunction in the phone system. Just do not dial 1 and it'll dial an operator and she should pick up. If you still can't get it, just PM me please.

[wildhawker]

Truth: Yes, please.

[Gray Peterson]

Originally Posted by wildhawker

Truth: Yes, please.

Concur, and truth, check your PM's.

[truthseeker]

Thanks! I replied to your PM.

[truthseeker]

I am going to start my application today, however I have a question about

"Proof that the person applying has completed, at least, a 16-hour course of training including instruction on firearm safety and the law regarding the permissible use of a firearm"

Do I have to complete this class BEFORE I apply?

Will my DD214 suffice or do I have to take a class at one of the places listed on the application process paper?

Also, what does the class cover?

And finally what positions/distances/scores does one have to shoot for qualifications?

Thanks!

[Lone_Gunman]

You don't have to take the class until after you are approved. I don't know how much it costs or what it covers 'cause I haven't been approved yet.

[haveyourmile]

Here is the reply from Amber.

Good Morning,

Unfortunately Applications can not be accepted via mail. Once received it will be sent back to you. The next available appointment I have for you to turn it in would be Thurs July 22nd at 0930am. Would you like me to schedule you for this?

~Amber

[Gray Peterson]

Originally Posted by haveyourmile

Here is the reply from Amber.

Go ahead and schedule the appointment.

[haveyourmile]

Originally Posted by Gray Peterson

Go ahead and schedule the appointment.

I did. I replied as soon as I got it and the appointment is scheduled. Seems like a lot of hoops to jump through but I'm glad my appointment is finally made and it's less than a month out!

So I make the appointment and turn in the application. What happens next? Whats the time frame on all of this like?

[jb7706]

Originally Posted by haveyourmile

I did. I replied as soon as I got it and the appointment is scheduled. Seems like a lot of hoops to jump through but I'm glad my appointment is finally made and it's less than a month out!

So I make the appointment and turn in the application. What happens next? Whats the time frame on all of this like?

Below is based on my conversations with other successful applicants that have recently gone through the process.

Originally Posted by jb7706

It will reportedly be another 3-4 weeks after application submission to get the phone interview done. Dunno how long is takes to get approval/denial, but I'm personally not expecting that to be done in less than another 3-4 weeks from the phone interview, though they have 90 days from submission of app or 30 days after DOJ background results, whatever is later to get back to you. Anecdotal research I have done indicates that from application submission to permit in hand is about 6 months if all goes well.

[haveyourmile]

Originally Posted by jb7706

Below is based on my conversations with other successful applicants that have recently gone through the process.

Aright thanks. Good to know an estimated waiting time.

Anyone know what qualification with your weapon is like?

[jb7706]

Originally Posted by haveyourmile

Aright thanks. Good to know an estimated waiting time.

Anyone know what qualification with your weapon is like?

All stages are fired after drawing from concealment from what I understand.

Range Qualification
Objective: individual shall pass firearm qualification based on his or her demonstrated use
of weapon-

A. Course of fire
Stage 1. 15 yards 6 rounds in 30 seconds
(standing position)

Stage 2. 7 yards 11 rounds in 45 seconds
includes 2 reloads) (load 6, 6 and 2)
6 standing position
8 kneeling position

Stage 3. 7 yards 12 rounds in 25 seconds
(includes reloads) (load 6 and 6)
6 strong hand unsupported
(reload and then switch hands)
6 weak hand unsupported

Stage 4 7 yards 6 rounds in 10 seconds (any position)

Stage 5 5 yards 6 rounds
*3 rounds in 4 seconds (2 stages)

Stage 6 3 yards 6 rounds
2 rounds in 3 seconds (3 stages)

B. Scoring:
1. Silhouette targets shall he used. A 5 point score shall he granted for each
round discharged in head or body kill area.
2. Each individual shall qualify with an 80% score (200 out 250 points) on the scoring segments
3. Each individual shall be informed whether his or her score passed or failed.

[Mstrty]

Last year Both of my 2 children, myself and my wife took a NRA basic pistol course. It was 2 full days 16+hours first day was all class and 2nd was all range. The instructor told us at the time it was a valid course for California CCW requirements. Upon completion he told us we should all go out and get a CCW licence. Truth or FUD and if true what is the expiration date of the certificate ?

[wildhawker]

Originally Posted by haveyourmile

Here is the reply from Amber.

We'll address this separately; please proceed as per Gray's instructions.

[Untamed1972]

So per some statements made in another thread: Are requiring reference letters legal or not?

Been trying to get clarification on that statement but to no avail.

[jb7706]

Originally Posted by bombmaster

Last year Both of my 2 children, myself and my wife took a NRA basic pistol course. It was 2 full days 16+hours first day was all class and 2nd was all range. The instructor told us at the time it was a valid course for California CCW requirements. Upon completion he told us we should all go out and get a CCW licence. Truth or FUD and if true what is the expiration date of the certificate ?

Originally Posted by CA PC 12050

(E) (i) For new license applicants, the course of training may be
any course acceptable to the licensing authority, shall not exceed 16
hours, and shall include instruction on at least firearm safety and
the law regarding the permissible use of a firearm. Notwithstanding
this clause, the licensing authority may require a community college
course certified by the Commission on Peace Officer Standards and
Training, up to a maximum of 24 hours, but only if required uniformly
of all license applicants without exception.

There is nothing in the NRA Basic Pistol class that covers "law regarding the permissible use of a firearm" so I'm guessing not. The application specifies that you must take the course at one of the 6 authorized locations. I also know NRA certified pistol instructors that still had to take the CCW class at one of the 6 approved locations. I'm pretty sure your handgun cert would count as "other training" on your app but does not really get you anything more than one attaboy.

[CSDGuy]

If your class was at one of the six approved vendors and was for CCW... you'd be fine. Otherwise, no, that training would not be valid.

[Gray Peterson]

Originally Posted by Untamed1972

So per some statements made in another thread: Are requiring reference letters legal or not?

Been trying to get clarification on that statement but to no avail.

No they are not. See Penal Code 12051, no other forms may be required.

[Billy Jack]

Originally Posted by Gray Peterson

No they are not. See Penal Code 12051, no other forms may be required.

Humble Brave must take exception to your conclusion. The letters of character go towards vetting the applicant for 'character' ala background investigation. Some departments contact the letter writers.

If you think a Federal Judge will throw out that department requirement I have some Obama approved windmills I would like you to tilt at. Yes, you may be accompanied by your faithful sidekick and his donkey.

Letters of character are an investigative tool just as would be the requirement of a letter from an employer. Brave has been on this path before.

Brave love to read.

Billy Jack
'The Force is strong with this one'


www.californiaconcealedcarry.com

[Gray Peterson]

Originally Posted by Billy Jack

Humble Brave must take exception to your conclusion. The letters of character go towards vetting the applicant for 'character' ala background investigation. Some departments contact the letter writers.

If you think a Federal Judge will throw out that department requirement I have some Obama approved windmills I would like you to tilt at. Yes, you may be accompanied by your faithful sidekick and his donkey.

Letters of character are an investigative tool just as would be the requirement of a letter from an employer. Brave has been on this path before.

Brave love to read.

Billy Jack
'The Force is strong with this one'

Has nothing at all to do with a federal judge, it's more of a state law question than anything else at this point. I understand that the application itself has three references inside of it, but why should the sheriff be able to force YOU to do the leg work of getting the letters when they get paid the $20 to process your app for good cause? This was discussed in great detail in Connecticut, where they have "proper cause" and moral character provisions as well. Their BFPE (Board of Firearms Permit Examiners) went into great detail as to why "Character Reference" letters were worthless because you would self select the people you trust the most to write you a reference letter.

If you're employer is not included in the good cause (such as doing executive protection work), or it's one of the 90 day temporary CCW's, why would a letter from an employer have anything to do with your good cause or good moral character? Do you realize that even bringing up guns in the workplace can result in a job termination because of the bare fear that the employee *might* carry a gun or have the legal capability of doing so? My company, for example, absolutely FORBIDS any supervisors or management from writing a letter in the form that you talk about.

These are more logistics questions rather than legal questions. I may question their ability to do so under state law, but even if it was legal, it seems like a bit of a dodge and a logistics nightmare, and the character reference letter requirements has been abused in the forms of requirements that the people be from within the county, or in an extreme case (Imperial County), required to be from a certain class of people.

It's also slightly off topic for this thread (sorry Untamed) as Sacramento does not require letters of character reference.

[Billy Jack]

Originally Posted by Gray Peterson

Has nothing at all to do with a federal judge, it's more of a state law question than anything else at this point. I understand that the application itself has three references inside of it, but why should the sheriff be able to force YOU to do the leg work of getting the letters when they get paid the $20 to process your app for good cause? This was discussed in great detail in Connecticut, where they have "proper cause" and moral character provisions as well. Their BFPE (Board of Firearms Permit Examiners) went into great detail as to why "Character Reference" letters were worthless because you would self select the people you trust the most to write you a reference letter.

If you're employer is not included in the good cause (such as doing executive protection work), or it's one of the 90 day temporary CCW's, why would a letter from an employer have anything to do with your good cause or good moral character? Do you realize that even bringing up guns in the workplace can result in a job termination because of the bare fear that the employee *might* carry a gun or have the legal capability of doing so? My company, for example, absolutely FORBIDS any supervisors or management from writing a letter in the form that you talk about.

These are more logistics questions rather than legal questions. I may question their ability to do so under state law, but even if it was legal, it seems like a bit of a dodge and a logistics nightmare, and the character reference letter requirements has been abused in the forms of requirements that the people be from within the county, or in an extreme case (Imperial County), required to be from a certain class of people.

It's also slightly off topic for this thread (sorry Untamed) as Sacramento does not require letters of character reference.

What other states do is not relevant to this discussion. Why waste time and resources on minutia? I do not care if it is a state or Federal issue, an attorney would not waste their time on it nor would a Judge be amused to have it as an issue in their court.

Let it go my friend. All the department has to do is explain it is necessary for the investigative process and your are out the door. Been doing CCW issues for over 25 years and I have real world, practical experience, not armchair theory. In simple words, I know what works and I know what are foolish wastes of time and resources. 'A man's got to know their limitations' Dirty Harry Calahan
This Brave will not address this matter further.

Billy Jack
'The Force is strong with this one'


www.californiaconcealedcarry.com

[1rubicon]

Originally Posted by Gray Peterson

Then have them apply by filling out the app and send it into them Certified Mail Return Receipt Requested.

you have to call between certain hours on thursday if I remember right and make an appointment to bring it in.

[haveyourmile]

Originally Posted by 1rubicon

you have to call between certain hours on thursday if I remember right and make an appointment to bring it in.

Where is it stated that you have to call between certain hours on Thursday? Sounds like FUD

[Gray Peterson]

Originally Posted by 1rubicon

you have to call between certain hours on thursday if I remember right and make an appointment to bring it in.

If anyone is having difficulty calling through a day, please PM me and I'll share with you a contact method.

[NorCalMama]

Where did you get that info and what size silhouettes are they?

Originally Posted by jb7706

All stages are fired after drawing from concealment from what I understand.

Range Qualification
Objective: individual shall pass firearm qualification based on his or her demonstrated use
of weapon-

A. Course of fire
Stage 1. 15 yards 6 rounds in 30 seconds
(standing position)

Stage 2. 7 yards 11 rounds in 45 seconds
includes 2 reloads) (load 6, 6 and 2)
6 standing position
8 kneeling position

Stage 3. 7 yards 12 rounds in 25 seconds
(includes reloads) (load 6 and 6)
6 strong hand unsupported
(reload and then switch hands)
6 weak hand unsupported

Stage 4 7 yards 6 rounds in 10 seconds (any position)

Stage 5 5 yards 6 rounds
*3 rounds in 4 seconds (2 stages)

Stage 6 3 yards 6 rounds
2 rounds in 3 seconds (3 stages)

B. Scoring:
1. Silhouette targets shall he used. A 5 point score shall he granted for each
round discharged in head or body kill area.
2. Each individual shall qualify with an 80% score (200 out 250 points) on the scoring segments
3. Each individual shall be informed whether his or her score passed or failed.

[1JimMarch]

Right now, the unofficial requirement is that you have a photograph of the sheriff or a high-ranking member of the brass with all of the following:

* The board game "twister".

* A jug of crisco[tm].

* A sheep, goat or male chimpanzee.

Post-McDonald, we'll see...

[Gray Peterson]

Dude, where's the puke smiley?

Besides, the above is , though not without it's causes in the Glen Craig/Lou Blanas era.

The rest of you:

If you're a resident of Sacramento County, please contact me via PM and I will give you instructions on what you need to do and WHY.

Thanks,

Gray

[383green]

Originally Posted by Gray Peterson

Dude, where's the puke smiley?

Here you go:

I like this one better, though:

[Lateralus]

Since I recently went through the process, here is my .02 on what happens after submitting application to Amber:

Be nice to Amber. She is a great person.

About 10 - 14 days after, a Detective will call you to go over some details. In my case, he asked:

• Have I ever been arrested
• How long have I lived at my current address
• How long have I owned a handgun
• Was I around guns growing up
• Was I a member of the Armed Forces
• Go over good cause statement

He then told me that they meet as a committee to review the applications and choose then to either approve or deny the CCW. A letter will be mailed to you in about 2 weeks after the phone interview.

Again, there were no up front costs after the $20 filing fee. Make sure to come with a written Good Cause Statement. If you have several traffic violations (Like me!), don't go to the DMV. Go to the Courthouse (Sac one is the Carol Miller Center on Folsom/Bicentennial Circle). They can print up all the information you need and then some. The clerk helping me did this at no cost.

Good Luck everyone. Hopefully McDonald puts an end to this crap.

[1JimMarch]

Look, I was joking and that was in bad taste.

However.

If it was me, I'd wait until McDonald to apply. Five friggin' days, guys. Seriously. Apply the day McDonald comes down. That will send an unmistakable "don't screw with me" message without you saying a word.

[haveyourmile]

Originally Posted by Lateralus

Since I recently went through the process, here is my .02 on what happens after submitting application to Amber:

Be nice to Amber. She is a great person.

About 10 - 14 days after, a Detective will call you to go over some details. In my case, he asked:

• Have I ever been arrested
• How long have I lived at my current address
• How long have I owned a handgun
• Was I around guns growing up
• Was I a member of the Armed Forces
• Go over good cause statement

He then told me that they meet as a committee to review the applications and choose then to either approve or deny the CCW. A letter will be mailed to you in about 2 weeks after the phone interview.

Again, there were no up front costs after the $20 filing fee. Make sure to come with a written Good Cause Statement. If you have several traffic violations (Like me!), don't go to the DMV. Go to the Courthouse (Sac one is the Carol Miller Center on Folsom/Bicentennial Circle). They can print up all the information you need and then some. The clerk helping me did this at no cost.

Good Luck everyone. Hopefully McDonald puts an end to this crap.

Did you get approved then?

[thebronze]

Originally Posted by Lateralus

Since I recently went through the process, here is my .02 on what happens after submitting application to Amber:

Be nice to Amber. She is a great person.

About 10 - 14 days after, a Detective will call you to go over some details. In my case, he asked:

• Have I ever been arrested
• How long have I lived at my current address
• How long have I owned a handgun
• Was I around guns growing up
• Was I a member of the Armed Forces
• Go over good cause statement

He then told me that they meet as a committee to review the applications and choose then to either approve or deny the CCW. A letter will be mailed to you in about 2 weeks after the phone interview.

Again, there were no up front costs after the $20 filing fee. Make sure to come with a written Good Cause Statement. If you have several traffic violations (Like me!), don't go to the DMV. Go to the Courthouse (Sac one is the Carol Miller Center on Folsom/Bicentennial Circle). They can print up all the information you need and then some. The clerk helping me did this at no cost.

Good Luck everyone. Hopefully McDonald puts an end to this crap.

Can you explain what this is about?

[Untamed1972]

Originally Posted by Gray Peterson

It's also slightly off topic for this thread (sorry Untamed) as Sacramento does not require letters of character reference.

I apologize for getting slightly off topic. I tried to get clarification on the issue in the other thread, started a thread in the CCW forum, and vie PM as well. So I did try several other avenues first. Thank you for the clarification.

[Gray Peterson]

Originally Posted by Untamed1972

I apologize for getting slightly off topic. I tried to get clarification on the issue in the other thread, started a thread in the CCW forum, and vie PM as well. So I did try several other avenues first. Thank you for the clarification.

Guess you didn't get my PM's..

[jb7706]

Originally Posted by NorCalMama

Where did you get that info and what size silhouettes are they?

This info came from the CCW manual that is issued to students at one of the approved training companies. That page was provided to me by a Sac County CCW holder that I know. You can also find it online at one of the approved training company web sites. I believe the target is the standard B-27.