*NEW* Front Sight Members Check-In Here!

[Doctor_Chicago]

Originally Posted by dad4mnc

It would be interesting to know their break even on attendance with the new fees. I'm guessing it will take a few years for a complete student attendance make over. Maybe they angle for hosting major shooting events, etc. That would give them a lot of exposure.

The Business Model is Grandiose at best. Once the Price Tag got above $8-9 Million, it no longer made sense for several of us (Groups) to continue down that road.

[XDJYo]

Originally Posted by Citizen_B

I went when ownership changed hands to PF in Feb and they were running the modified-FS courses. Attendance was way down from past years, and that was at the $50/person/day rate. At the $250/person/day rate I can only imagine what attendance looks like now. Most of the people in my PF class were FS members going for the last time and to see how PF runs things. I suspect PF will have a little bump in attendance from curious FS members at first, then fade hard to a new demographic.

Dang, that gets expensive real quick! FS was an awesome, unique and inexpensive vacation for us. Especially paired with the Saddle West pricing and mondo breakfast buffet! However, that practically free 4 day class is now $1,000/person. Yikes!

And no condos! LOL!

[Usual_Suspect]

I was sent this asking if I knew any Vet's that had SeaBee Experience looking for a long term Project Management position.

Prairie Fire Nevada (PFNV) has acquired a range facility, formerly known as Front Sight, 40 miles West of Las Vegas. PFNV has begun a multiyear renovation of the property and is in search of a facility director to help oversee the construction of a one of a kind shooting sports destination.
Position: Facilities Director
Location: Pahrump NV
Duties:
• Program management for multiyear construction projects including range improvements, clubhouse and office construction, new maintenance building construction, etc.
• Build and manage a maintenance staff at a 550 acre firearms training facility including range maintenance, grounds keeping, vehicle and building maintenance, janitorial staff, etc.
• Direct and manage service contracts, develop and manage budget and spend plans related to facility operations.
Preferred experience: Senior Enlisted SEABEE with experience supporting Special Operations Forces
overseas. EA, BU, CE experience desired.

[-hanko]

Originally Posted by Usual_Suspect

I was sent this asking if I knew any Vet's that had SeaBee Experience looking for a long term Project Management position.

Prairie Fire Nevada (PFNV) has acquired a range facility, formerly known as Front Sight, 40 miles West of Las Vegas. PFNV has begun a multiyear renovation of the property and is in search of a facility director to help oversee the construction of a one of a kind shooting sports destination.
Position: Facilities Director
Location: Pahrump NV
Duties:
? Program management for multiyear construction projects including range improvements, clubhouse and office construction, new maintenance building construction, etc.
? Build and manage a maintenance staff at a 550 acre firearms training facility including range maintenance, grounds keeping, vehicle and building maintenance, janitorial staff, etc.
? Direct and manage service contracts, develop and manage budget and spend plans related to facility operations.
Preferred experience: Senior Enlisted SEABEE with experience supporting Special Operations Forces
overseas. EA, BU, CE experience desired.

Calling Dr. Pizza on line one.

[Vinnie Boombatz]

Originally Posted by XDJYo

Dang, that gets expensive real quick! FS was an awesome, unique and inexpensive vacation for us. Especially paired with the Saddle West pricing and mondo breakfast buffet! However, that practically free 4 day class is now $1,000/person. Yikes!

And no condos! LOL!

When I was out there for a few classes in March (got in at the $100/day rate) we met Scott Miller, ret. four-star general who is not the COO of Prairie Fire.(Super nice guy, btw). He asked us what we liked and didn't like about Front Sight, what we liked and didn't like about the new class formats and any recommendations we had moving forward. The biggest concern for everyone was the cost moving forward, and many flat-out said that $250+/day would prohibit them from coming to any classes int he future. Many stated the reasons for this...that they also have to factor in travel expenses and accommodations on top of the daily fee, and in the end it would just be too expensive, especially when they can find local training for $200-$250/day and not have to buy a plane ticket, rent a car, pay for a hotel, etc. Seemed liek everyone was pleased with the training, but just couldn't /wouldn't be interested in paying the $250+ daily fee on top of all the other expenses.

[PogoJack]

Rick Green has replicated the 2 and 4 day pistol classes in Texas, plus you get some constitutional training with like minded people.

https://www.patriotacademy.com/const...efense-course/

[Vinnie Boombatz]

Originally Posted by PogoJack

Rick Green has replicated the 2 and 4 day pistol classes in Texas, plus you get some constitutional training with like minded people.

https://www.patriotacademy.com/const...efense-course/

And he has former FS instructor(s) teaching it.

Got to sit in for one of his classes at FS. I wasn't there for Patriot Academy but they told us we could attend his lectures if we wanted. Got to speak to him after the lecture and was a very nice guy.

[XDJYo]

Originally Posted by Vinnie Boombatz

When I was out there for a few classes in March (got in at the $100/day rate) we met Scott Miller, ret. four-star general who is not the COO of Prairie Fire.(Super nice guy, btw). He asked us what we liked and didn't like about Front Sight, what we liked and didn't like about the new class formats and any recommendations we had moving forward. The biggest concern for everyone was the cost moving forward, and many flat-out said that $250+/day would prohibit them from coming to any classes int he future. Many stated the reasons for this...that they also have to factor in travel expenses and accommodations on top of the daily fee, and in the end it would just be too expensive, especially when they can find local training for $200-$250/day and not have to buy a plane ticket, rent a car, pay for a hotel, etc. Seemed liek everyone was pleased with the training, but just couldn't /wouldn't be interested in paying the $250+ daily fee on top of all the other expenses.

Hopefully they take that to heart with regard to the pricing or they?ll wind up with a giant lot full of lead and tumbleweeds. Oh, and half completed condos.


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[Mezcalfud]

So, what have people found as far as good training in place of FS/PF? I started looking around me here in socal but would prefer to train in a free state!

[XDJYo]

Originally Posted by Mezcalfud

So, what have people found as far as good training in place of FS/PF? I started looking around me here in socal but would prefer to train in a free state!

To be honest, I haven't looked too hard, but the local ones (held at USI or similar) concentrate mostly on the CA CCW training especially since it is a new and growing field since NYSRPA v Bruen. Some still offer normal training, but again, I haven't looked too hard.

[dad4mnc]

Originally Posted by Mezcalfud

So, what have people found as far as good training in place of FS/PF? I started looking around me here in socal but would prefer to train in a free state!

Modern Samurai Project (Scott Jedlinski), nation wide
Sentinel Concepts (Steve Fisher) nation wide
Raven Wing Limited SoCal
My Own Defender Socal/Texas
Mindset Tactical Socal
Tim Herron nation wide

[rodralig]

Originally Posted by Mezcalfud

So, what have people found as far as good training in place of FS/PF? I started looking around me here in socal but would prefer to train in a free state!

What is special with training in a free state?

Originally Posted by dad4mnc

Modern Samurai Project (Scott Jedlinski), nation wide
Sentinel Concepts (Steve Fisher) nation wide
Raven Wing Limited SoCal
My Own Defender Socal/Texas
Mindset Tactical Socal
Tim Herron nation wide

While I will second those above by @dad4mnc as I have gone through some of them, I go to either ITTS, TFTT-DAG and/or Raven Wing for my tactical/defensive training.

MOD and Raven Wing are certified training by MSP, btw.


Seeing that @Mezcalfud is based out of Oceanside, have you checked Tactical Hyve?

_

[TeamAllen]

I received this email today from Prairie Fire (copy & pasted)

Please allow me to introduce myself. I am the new Executive Chairman of PrairieFire and I want to thank you for being a former Front Sight member. I’ve been working with our new leadership team to create what we are calling The American Experience at PrairieFire. This is about experiences that go “beyond the range” and emphasize learning and growth.

Our commitment to you is to provide an environment where our guests not only improve their technical skills but also have fun, make memories, and strengthen their bonds with family, friends and our community.

We are working on some exciting new experiences, including a full 18-hole sporting clay course and a “Point Person Canyon,” which is a fun, challenging steel target course nestled in our middle canyon.

We are also celebrating Memorial Day by honoring those who served and made the ultimate sacrifice. On Monday, May 29th, we will host a 5k fun run/walk/ruck here on site. After the race, we’ll make a few remarks to mark the day, And then anyone who wants to can head to the range. Please join us and sign up for the 5k here on eventbrite.

Last but not least - save this date for our grand opening - September 23rd. All are welcome. We plan to launch our new website and introductory membership offering soon. If you have any questions, please don’t hesitate to reach out to the concierge team at 702-837-7433 or email us at concierge@prairiefire.com.

I look forward to meeting and learning with you.

Sincerely,

Scott Miller

[damon1272]

Mezcal fun
tac Hyve does training in Phoenix. Cow town range.

[Snoopy47]

There seems to be a business model divergence between other activities of similar prices and the experience they offer.

This more or less seems like it's best survived by the gun tourist model. Folks without access to firearms wanting to just experience being John Wick and given 5 star amenities.

These prices make them look like they are trying to be a golf resort without remotely coming close to the experience. I think that needs to be 80% of the price and experience.

************
If all folks want to do is go out to a patch of desert, set up some stages for training on Billy Bob's patch of dirt these are not the target market for Destination Training Facilities.

If folks want a better experience they are better served going to Las Vegas getting some shows in, and going to any one of numerous gun rental places just to say they popped some caps on guns they can't even remotely see back home.

[Paseclipse]

Just came through, an email invite from PF for memberships. Pasting a copy of the email text-

We are excited to let you know about our initial membership option for former Front Sight members.

By joining now, you will enjoy:
• No initiation fee.
• Reduced monthly dues, of just $17 a month.
• 25% off all courses, experiences, and private instruction.
• 10% all merchandise and rentals.

Claim your PrairieFire account:
• Go to www.prairiefire.com
• Click on Login, enter your email,
• Click “Lost your password?”
• You will receive an email with a link to create your new password

Once you are logged in, click on the Membership tab to view the PF Heritage Membership information.

Our team is standing by to answer any questions you have. You may contact us by email at concierge@prairiefire.com or by phone at (702) 837-7433.

At PrairieFire, we are fueled by a passion for adventure. We are building a community where you can connect with others seeking to learn, grow, and have fun. We can't wait to welcome you as a New Member of the PrairieFire Community.

See you soon!

Kasia Kwiatkowska
VP of Membership

*****************************************

I can't really comment on this because I haven't been keeping up on it.

[mikeinla]

How much are they charging per day for Front Sight Member’s to take classes there?

[BadKitty]

I think it's about $350/day

[missiondude]

No way I would pay $17 a month for the ability to pay $350 a day to train there, waived initiation fee or not.

[TeamAllen]

Well, at least they finally announced the membership info.
Sure is different than the initial package they showed.
I won't sign up with those conditions, but wish them luck.
I signed up for a Vang Comp shotgun training in Oct. Looking forward to it.

[Mezcalfud]

$250 a day last I saw.- edit--- logged on today and sure enough 2 day class is $700. I think when they walked amongst us during classes, they heard that the membership fee was too much so they lowered that and raised the daily fee.

[Paseclipse]

Originally Posted by missiondude

No way I would pay $17 a month for the ability to pay $350 a day to train there, waived initiation fee or not.

This is pretty much the same thing I think. The price they're charging for mediocre courses, you can do more advanced Suarez courses for cheaper.

It doesn't make financial sense at all, even with a 25% discount. There's better training available that's cheaper than what they offer.

[Citizen_B]

$17/month and $263/day classes (with the 25% discount). That's a hard pass for me. The classes look like standard offerings other schools have. No special experience stuff that was mentioned during the bankrupt proceedings. The facility is large and needs volume of clientele. Maybe it eventually starts morphing into Villa offerings, lifetime memberships, and Prairie Points. I can't see how this business model survives. Good luck to them indeed.

[missiondude]

Originally Posted by Citizen_B

$17/month and $263/day classes (with the 25% discount). That's a hard pass for me. The classes look like standard offerings other schools have. No special experience stuff that was mentioned during the bankrupt proceedings. The facility is large and needs volume of clientele. Maybe it eventually starts morphing into Villa offerings, lifetime memberships, and Prairie Points. I can't see how this business model survives. Good luck to them indeed.

Kinda hope it goes (@Y@)'s up so that Piazza does not get his $700K a year or whatever. Better yet, maybe they should BK so as not have to pay Iggy, lol.

[hitmissone]

Been a FS member long time and been there like 6 times for pistol classes. Being from Sacramento, to take time off work, travel, hotel, food, etc and then pay $250.00 per day on top of that. Probably a pass for me. And I've never heard boo from the new owners at all regarding anything. Guess they just discarded me all together.

[ARFrog]

Seems I'm not on the current PF email list. Can't say as I'm missing much at the current pricing structure.

Training funds are now going to local vendors.

[mikeinla]

Same instructors. Shoot more rounds.
I have taken 20+ classes including advanced classes at Front Sight.
Just got off the phone with them.
They said I have to take the "Foundation Pistol" first.
$600 to take a "foundation" class- PASS
She told me is was a GREAT deal as many people paid $500 to take classes at Front Sight-LOL

[chopperjock22]

Originally Posted by mikeinla

...They said I have to take the "Foundation Pistol" first.
$600 to take a "foundation" class- PASS
She told me is was a GREAT deal as many people paid $500 to take classes at Front Sight-LOL

I take it PF isn't recognizing if you had DG'd under Front Sight?

300 bucks a day huh? Hmmm...

[mikeinla]

Originally Posted by chopperjock22

I take it PF isn't recognizing if you had DG'd under Front Sight?

300 bucks a day huh? Hmmm...

I DG'd pistol, rifle and shotgun. I DG'd pistol the first time I took the class and yet they want to pay $600 for a "Foundation" class

For the class they want to to take it says "Prerequisites: No prerequisites are recommended."

Which means there can be BRAND NEW shooters in the class

[DRM6000]

At those prices, I'd rather go to Gunsite. In fact, I'm taking a class there soon and don't feel so bad about the cost now.

[hitmissone]

I dg'd the handgun and then took the Tactical and advance tactical classes. Only cool thing was the night shooting and the sim bays. But again, not at $300.00 per day.

[beanz2]

No, thanks. Many other schools teach the same high speed low drag techniques, but you also have to take their basic class. The only difference is the cost. Plus, the cost of travel and lodging.

I just took a 3-day Precision Rifle 1 class with LMS Defense at Sacramento Valley. None of this drinking-from-a-fire-hydrant FS teaching style. I learned more, practiced the techniques more and shot better from farther. And unlike FS, there are follow up Precision Rifle 2 and Practical Scoped Rifle classes to be had.

Judging from the responses on this thread, the number of PF students would shrink considerably. The main attraction of FS was the ridiculously low cost at a good quality of teaching.

[NorthBay Shooter]

besides the quality of instruction, the main attraction of FS was spending time on the property with hundreds of like minded individuals. On busy weekends, FS was the safest place in NV. I remember on the first break on during my first class, I asked about leaving my stuff on the bay. The instructor looked at me stone faced and said, we don't have a problem with theft here. Since then I have found that statement to be true about most places I shoot. I see guys at matches leave 10k guns on the safe table to use the porta potty 5 bays away. I really appreciate that. Too bad it can't extend beyond the range.

[HighSierra36]

I called when I saw the price and the lady told me they weren't making any money at $250 a day and didn't want to end up like Piazza. I think they may end up in BK sooner than Piazza did.

[XDJYo]

Originally Posted by HighSierra36

I called when I saw the price and the lady told me they weren't making any money at $250 a day and didn't want to end up like Piazza. I think they may end up in BK sooner than Piazza did.

Sadly I agree. Either you attract a crap ton of shooters everyday with low prices or Jack up the prices and risk losing out on your core audience. The FS property is huge and won?t last very long with only a handful of classes each week.

They?ll need the big names to attract bigger classes out there.


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[BadKitty]

Originally Posted by Citizen_B

$17/month and $263/day classes (with the 25% discount). That's a hard pass for me. The classes look like standard offerings other schools have. No special experience stuff that was mentioned during the bankrupt proceedings. The facility is large and needs volume of clientele. Maybe it eventually starts morphing into Villa offerings, lifetime memberships, and Prairie Points. I can't see how this business model survives. Good luck to them indeed.

Yeah I did the math when I got the email. I'm not a math genius, but this is what I came up with:

-- membership is $204/year
-- 25% member discount off of a $700 class = $175

Therefore....

Non-member price = $700

Member price = $525 class plus $204 membership fee = $729


So, a non-member pays LESS than a member if you're jogging out there to take a class. Where are the member savings?? It looks like there's an assumption on their parts that members will want to drive out there for multiple classes per year. I know that we have a number of people here who were driven to train at FS multiple times a year; but, I think most "general shooters" can't really take all that time off from work to take multiple classes and get the full value out of a membership. This is especially so because you have to fly or drive quite a ways out into the desert to take a class, pay for gas, hotel, food, ammo, etc.

I still have $400 on the books at PF. So, I will have to go out there and take at least one class in order to get my money out. After that, at these prices, I can just take training out here in SoCal and not have to drive across the desert to do so.

[TeamAllen]

I thought this thread was going to come to an end, but I hope we will at least get one final range report from BadKitty.

[BrassCase]

There were a lot of members who lived in LV and would take multiple classes every year.

Bad Kitty, how did you end up with $400.00 credit with PF.

My feelings, at this time are that if I have to spend big bucks on training I might as well look at the other places like to Sig Academy and Gunsight.

[BadKitty]

Originally Posted by BrassCase

Bad Kitty, how did you end up with $400.00 credit with PF.

This past February, I was enrolled to take a 4-day Practical Rifle course during the FS/PF transition period. That is when the courses were still $100/day. Unfortunately, the snow storms came through and the Cajon Pass was closed. The deadline for FS pricing was April and so I only had a month to rebook. The only other dates available in March were either full or didn't work for me. They said they would hold my money on file for me to use at a later date; but, warned me that the costs would be different after April.

[Kidster]

Don't recall what their pricing was before, but here is what I got from an email today.

By joining now, you will enjoy:

No initiation fee.

Reduced monthly dues, of just $17 a month.

25% off all courses, experiences, and private instruction.

10% all merchandise and rentals.