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  #1  
Old 01-05-2020, 8:54 AM
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Default CCW @ church in a school

OK not sure if this has been discussed yet so sorry it this is a dup. My church meets a t a school which is fairly common in my area. Since its being used as a place of worship on sunday AM, not as a school does the "gun free zone" law still apply? TIA
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Old 01-05-2020, 9:09 AM
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The school part controls, even if it is not in session.


Sorry, the ban applies.
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Old 01-05-2020, 9:17 AM
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But don’t worry, that means any criminals can’t bring theirs either.
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Old 01-05-2020, 9:42 AM
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There are no exceptions to time of day, day of week, or type of activities or number of people present. You could be the only person on school grounds at 3AM Sunday morning during the middle of summer recess, and if you are carrying any other way than unloaded gun and ammo in a locked container, you are breaking the law.
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Old 01-05-2020, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by SkyHawk View Post
There are no exceptions to time of day, day of week, or type of activities or number of people present. You could be the only person on school grounds at 3AM Sunday morning during the middle of summer recess, and if you are carrying any other way than unloaded gun and ammo in a locked container, you are breaking the law.
This. The legislature did this on purpose back in 2015. CCW was ok until then.

Some idiots ruined it for the rest of us
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Old 01-05-2020, 5:30 PM
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cool thanks for the replies. i had a feeling that was the case. guess i got to start inviting cop friends to church with me...
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Old 01-05-2020, 10:09 PM
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This. The legislature did this on purpose back in 2015. CCW was ok until then.

Some idiots ruined it for the rest of us
Probably the same bunch of idiots that ruined “open” carry within our national forests and such, when hiking outside of city limits. They just had to push the issue and it ALL got taken away from citizens.
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Old 01-05-2020, 10:48 PM
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how about a church next to a school in a small plaza, each have different suite numbers, they share a parking lot but school is on the left side of the building, church on the right side of the building?
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Old 01-06-2020, 12:18 AM
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how about a church next to a school in a small plaze, each have different suite numbers, they share a parking lot but school is on the left side of the building, church on the right side of the building?
no-go.
Chruch is still on school grounds, CA GFSZ laws still apply (parking lot, entire building).
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Old 01-06-2020, 7:03 AM
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Originally Posted by TrailerparkTrash View Post
Probably the same bunch of idiots that ruined “open” carry within our national forests and such, when hiking outside of city limits. They just had to push the issue and it ALL got taken away from citizens.
Nope. A Vice-principal in Bakersfield got outed for a legal CCW on school grounds. Senator Lois Wolk came unglued over it.
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Old 01-06-2020, 7:13 AM
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Originally Posted by fn9 View Post
how about a church next to a school in a small plaze, each have different suite numbers, they share a parking lot but school is on the left side of the building, church on the right side of the building?
A “school in a small plaz(a)” doesn’t immediately sound like a K-12 school. If it isn’t K-12, (or college/university) then it doesn’t fall under the GFSZ controls.
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(4) “School zone” means an area in, or on the grounds of, a public or private school providing instruction in kindergarten or grades 1 to 12, inclusive, or within a distance of 1,000 feet from the grounds of the public or private school.
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Old 01-06-2020, 7:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Dvrjon View Post
A “school in a small plaz(a)” doesn’t immediately sound like a K-12 school. If it isn’t K-12, (or college/university) then it doesn’t fall under the GFSZ controls.
Montessori school which has Kindergarten

Though I usually use a back door from a smaller parking lot in the back avoiding the main parking lot, since they have different addressess and are not affiliated, in my mind I would not be on school grounds.
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Old 01-06-2020, 7:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Quiet View Post
no-go.
Chruch is still on school grounds, CA GFSZ laws still apply (parking lot, entire building).
Quiet, can you please amplify on this? With all due respect (a lot) I don’t think this is a tenable position, as the “trip wire” in the statute is:
Quote:
626.9. (a) This section shall be known, and may be cited, as the Gun-Free School Zone Act of 1995.
(b) Any person who possesses a firearm in a place that the person knows, or reasonably should know, is a school zone, as defined in paragraph (4) of subdivision (e), shall be punished as specified in subdivision (f).
In the case of a stand-alone structure, or a structure presenting signage which delineates specific public areas as “solely for school purposes”, or some such language, a strip mall through which the general public may freely enter and exit would not appear to meet the “school zone” grounds concept.

When I trundle my 4 grandchildren into Subway, I don’t know (nor should I reasonably know) that there’s a K-12 school on the other side of the 4 acre parking lot.

Thanks.
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Old 01-07-2020, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Dvrjon View Post
Nope. A Vice-principal in Bakersfield got outed for a legal CCW on school grounds. Senator Lois Wolk came unglued over it.

Wolk is an overwrought fool, to be sure, but if the dumb***** VP hadn’t left it unattended in his backpack in his office, it never would’ve happened. That bit of stupidity and irresponsibility handed Wolk a gift wrapped opportunity. I still think she would’ve gotten around to it anyway.
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Old 01-09-2020, 8:20 PM
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Wolk is an overwrought fool, to be sure, but if the dumb***** VP hadn’t left it unattended in his backpack in his office, it never would’ve happened. That bit of stupidity and irresponsibility handed Wolk a gift wrapped opportunity. I still think she would’ve gotten around to it anyway.
Well, the VP was just as stupid as the idiots that pushed the "open carry" issue, marching up and down the state drawing attention to themselves, thus making libtard Cali politicians pass laws that outlawed the practice all together.

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Old 01-09-2020, 10:47 PM
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Heard a guy say last night the church he attends has their own private school on their own private property, same property as the sanctuary... no guns allowed in the sanctuary because of the school.
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Old 01-10-2020, 1:03 AM
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Heard a guy say last night the church he attends has their own private school on their own private property, same property as the sanctuary... no guns allowed in the sanctuary because of the school.

So school is part of the church, what if it is a commercial property rented to both a church and a school (separate addresses)??
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Old 01-10-2020, 8:29 PM
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Fn9,

I couldn't answer your question definitively but it is my assumption that proximity would be the deciding factor, not address.

He did define whether the school and church share buildings or just property but obviously they are within 1,000' of each other.

I just read a CRPA email about Ca AB503 which would allow CCW on public or private school property with written permission of principal, another assumption, it deals with places of worship as well.
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Old 01-10-2020, 8:48 PM
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It looks like AB503 went nowhere fast.
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Old 01-10-2020, 8:51 PM
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Originally Posted by tawadc95 View Post
Fn9,

I couldn't answer your question definitively but it is my assumption that proximity would be the deciding factor, not address.

He did define whether the school and church share buildings or just property but obviously they are within 1,000' of each other.

I just read a CRPA email about Ca AB503 which would allow CCW on public or private school property with written permission of principal, another assumption, it deals with places of worship as well.
Ironic since that what it was after no CCW on K-12 campuses, so school boards allowed teachers to CCW with school board approval but dumb legislators repealed that too.
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Old 01-11-2020, 3:04 AM
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We are ruled by idiots of the grandest manner!
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Old 01-11-2020, 7:57 AM
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Originally Posted by SkyHawk View Post
It looks like AB503 went nowhere fast.
AB 2318 (Flora) of the 2017-18 Legislative Session was identical to this bill. AB 2318 failed passage in Assembly Public Safety.

AB503 was due to be heard in committee on March 9, but was pulled by the author...he knew it would be killed.
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Old 01-11-2020, 8:59 AM
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We are ruled by idiots of the grandest manner!
"...to the end that the living may know that the Most High rules the kingdom of men and gives it to whom he will and sets over it the lowliest of men."
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Old 01-11-2020, 8:37 PM
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So Cal,

I guess politicians haven't changed, they were the same in Daniel's time.
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Old 01-11-2020, 11:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Dvrjon View Post
AB503 was due to be heard in committee on March 9, but was pulled by the author...he knew it would be killed.
Currently...
AB503 has an Assembly Public Safety commitee hearing date of 01-14-2020.
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Old 01-12-2020, 7:19 AM
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I think the church at school is a normal thing. Students who are interested in the spiritual component will be visited every day.
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Old 01-13-2020, 8:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Quiet View Post
Currently...
AB503 has an Assembly Public Safety commitee hearing date of 01-14-2020.
No new committee analysis. From last year:
Quote:
1) Author's Statement: According to the author, "AB 503 would allow pre-approved individuals to carry their CCWs while attending religious services on school property. This bill recognizes the safety of all by ensuring that religious institutions have the ability to protect their congregation in the way they see fit while maintaining school authority.”
2) Argument in Support: None submitted
3) Argument in Opposition: According to the American Academy of Pediatrics, “Loosening restrictions on concealed carry firearms in California's school zones is contrary to the need for the legislature to increase protections for children, youth and the community from gun violence. Commenting in 2017 on proposed federal legislation that would have made it easier to carry locked, loaded, and hidden firearms in public, AAP Past President Fernando Stein, MD states, ‘Research shows that easier access to firearms increases the risk that children and youth will be injured or killed by guns; making the concealed carry of firearms easier is a threat to children's safety.’
"Further, the American Academy of Pediatrics urges legislators to "...reject any legislation that weakens gun violence prevention laws and puts children's safety at risk... All children deserve to be safe from gun violence where they live, learn, and play. Pediatricians will not stand for anything less than progress when it comes to protecting children, families and communities from gun violence."
4) Prior Legislation: AB 2318 (Flora) of the 2017-18 Legislative Session was identical to this bill. AB 2318 failed passage in this Committee.
I am hoping to be amazed.....
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Old 01-13-2020, 9:27 PM
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The NRA should be paying John Lott to testify at that hearing..those dems say whatever they want without being required to present fact verifying the veracity of their statements.

I'm really tired of the free pass they have with regard to "truth"
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Old 01-14-2020, 1:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dvrjon View Post
No new committee analysis. From last year:

I am hoping to be amazed.....
01-13-2020, Assembly Public Safety Committee Bill Analysis

COMMENTS:

1) Author's Statement:
According to the author, "AB 503 would allow pre-approved individuals to carry their CCWs while attending religious services on school property. This bill recognizes the safety of all by ensuring that religious institutions have the ability to protect their congregation in the way they see fit while maintaining school authority.”

2) Argument in Support:
According to the National Riffle Association of America, “This bill is about enhancing safety at churches, synagogues, and other religious institutions as well as the right of self-defense for those who attend functions in such facilities. Unfortunately religious institutions are not crime free zones as recent events have exposed the vulnerability of our faith based communities. Currently, religious institutions are being prevented from making safety and security decisions due to the passage of AB 707 (2015) and AB 424 (2017) when a school is associated with the property. This diminishes the ability of religious institutions to provide security teams and prevents congregants who are licensed to carry by the state for protection to protect themselves. These are the very same rights that private citizens, businesses, and other private organizations have on their property.”

3) Arguments in Opposition:

a) According to the American Academy of Pediatrics, “Loosening restrictions on concealed carry firearms in California's school zones is contrary to the need for the legislature to increase protections for children, youth and the community from gun violence. Commenting in 2017 on proposed federal legislation that would have made it easier to carry locked, loaded, and hidden firearms in public, AAP Past President Fernando Stein, MD states, ‘Research shows that easier access to firearms increases the risk that children and youth will be injured or killed by guns; making the concealed carry of firearms easier is a threat to children's safety.’

"Further, the American Academy of Pediatrics urges legislators to ‘…reject any legislation that weakens gun violence prevention laws and puts children's safety at risk... All children deserve to be safe from gun violence where they live, learn, and play. Pediatricians will not stand for anything less than progress when it comes to protecting children, families and communities from gun violence.’"

b) According to the California School Employees Association, AFL-CIO, “The Gun Free Zone Act of 1995 prohibits any individual from carrying a gun onto a school campus unless that person is a duly-sworn peace officer or armed security guard who completed the appropriate training required by law. Peace officers and armed security guards are trained to operate firearms during emergency situations. However, even among professionals there have been incidents where firearms were accidently discharged or were fired by students that found guns unattended in restrooms or other locations.

“AB 503 would authorize individuals that have not completed the same training as peace officers and armed security guards to carry a weapon onto campus if approved by the superintendent. According to the American Academy of Pediatrics, ‘research shows that easier access to firearms increases the risk that children and youth will be injured or killed by guns; making the concealed carry of firearms easier is a threat to children’s safety.’”


REGISTERED SUPPORT / OPPOSITION:

Support:
National Rifle Association - Institute for Legislative Action

Oppose:
American Academy of Pediatrics, California
Americans Against Gun Violence
Association of California School Administrators
Brady California United Against Gun Violence
California School Employees Association
California Teachers Association
NeverAgainCA
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Old 01-14-2020, 7:32 AM
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Sure...stay up until 2 a.m....

I see another bleak outcome for this.
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Old 01-14-2020, 9:28 AM
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Sure...stay up until 2 a.m....
Currently, working graveyard (2200-0600) hours.
Posting this when i should be
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Old 01-14-2020, 10:08 AM
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Currently, working graveyard (2200-0600) hours.
Posting this when i should be
Pulled a number of those over the years. I never could immediately sack out when I got home.
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