Glock Performance Trigger in Duty Gun

[Rowsdower]

Was curious on what some of the thoughts might be around installing the Glock Performance Trigger (GPT) in a Glock pistol intended for duty use. Assuming the agencies policy allows for it, can anyone give me some cons against doing it? The trigger weight would be reduced from 5.5 lbs to about 4lbs. The overall movement is much smoother, and I feel would contribute to an overall increase in accuracy. I should also say I've done a bit of research on this issue as well, specifically in order to dispel some potential "myths" about reducing trigger weight on a duty pistol and what some would argue could increase an officer's criminal liability by doing so.
First off, I have over 10 years of experience in law enforcement. About 3.5 years was spent investigating homicides and officer uses of force, including officer involved shootings, of which I have been involved in 3 OIS investigations. One of those investigations was eventually taken by the DOJ.
In speaking with our local county forensic crime lab, I was told that when they evaluate and test an officers gun when used in an OIS, they conduct an overall function test to make sure the firearm, and it's safeties, internal or external, are working. They will test the trigger weight using various tools to assist them with their overall evaluation, however they DO NOT publish, nor will they testify to the weight of a firearms trigger for at least two reasons:

1) there is no standard for trigger weight on a duty firearm.
2) the methods and tools they use to test trigger weight have not been scientifically validated, specifically, they do not know the standard measure of error for the equipment used.

The person I spoke with also added that it becomes even less of an issue because it is a Glock factory part, ensuring overall functionality.

As I mentioned before, one of the incidents I helped investigate was eventually taken over by the CA DOJ's team. I spoke with the lead special agent on the DOJ side, and from what he told me, their crime labs essentially conduct the same series of evaluations. I will be reaching out to the state DOJ lab tomorrow to hear from a scientist in their firearms unit.

The packaging on the GPT states, "Does not meet NIJ Standards for LE use." Well, the NIJ, or the National Institute of Justice, is a federal guideline, and adherence to it is voluntary. I spoke to a firearms instructor for Glock, and based on his assessment, it sounded like the addition of that verbiage on their packaging was essentially CYA.

All this said, to even present such evidence in a criminal court would face several serious challenges. The addition of such evidence would lack foundation due to the lack of a scientific process to test the trigger weight, and such evidence would also lack relevance because there is no set standard for CA law enforcement duty pistol trigger weight. For many many years officers carried various models of DA/SA pistols, and when in in SA mode, the trigger weight was much less than 4 lbs.

This post is intended to help me work through this issue as it pertains to an officers direct criminal liability by installing such a modification. This is not meant to discuss the potential civil outcomes, as the standards for submitting evidence are much different, and basically plaintiffs will throw anything at the wall that they can in hopes that something sticks. If the modification is discovered by the plaintiff side, I can see them using the modification as evidence against the officer's character, trying to paint him/her as some kind of gung-ho maniac that wanted to kill the decedent.

Let me know what I'm missing. Thanks for reading!

[esy]

When a factory Glock trigger is broken in, the pull is roughly anywhere from 4-4.5 pounds. You can get the gritty feel of the trigger out by getting some lube onto the trigger bar. The only thing you’ll never get rid of is the slop and mush of the trigger before it breaks.

I’ve shot somewhere around 15k+ out of my duty G17, and even more out of my personal Glocks. I’m used to it and would like a cleaner, crisper break. Like I said though, I’m used to it so it’s of no consequence to me. Get used to the trigger and it’ll run just fine.

[1911su16b870]

Interesting discussion on the Glock Performance Trigger "GPT".

NIJ Autoloading Pistol Standards 4.5.3c striker trigger not less than 5 lb

Some agencies authorize a "-" connector in policy whereas Glock says that is "competition only"...so I think it would go back to that specific department policy on if it would authorized for duty or not.

New video from Ben Stoeger dropped how his GPT got gritty with use and failed to reset. I do not think this could be an issue if you only lubricate the connector/trigger bar contact area and remove and clean out the trigger housing yearly/3-5K rounds.

Personally I love my G17 w GPT. The GPT allows you to run accurately at speed. I also run the standard Glock trigger just fine. I have my original duty G21 with 30,000+ rounds through it with only spring changes (striker, FP plunger, "S" etc.) and she still runs like Thomas the Tank Engine

[1911su16b870]

Originally Posted by Rowsdower

...
This post is intended to help me work through this issue as it pertains to an officers direct criminal liability by installing such a modification...

Probably an issue if the officer is not a Glock certified armorer. But if authorized by the agency in policy, the officer should not have any additional criminal liability. IMHO

I could see an issue if a non-Glock trigger modification was installed into a department issued duty handgun.

[PeteH]

If your Department's policy allows for it, then you have to ask yourself-do I think my Department would back me up on a shooting with that trigger? If it was considered a "borderline" use of force would they use that to throw you under the bus? You know your Department better than us here. If you worked for SFPD or LAPD among others personally I wouldn't even think about it.

[1911su16b870]

So some relevant stuff just posted by Ben Stoeger on failure to reset in his competition world of training with Glock w GPT and putting it away dirty with little/no lubrication.

[BigStiCK]

Dude, I just would not mess with it. Its just more ammo for a scumbag lawyer to harass you with. Spend the coin on extra training and range time.

[TrailerparkTrash]

Originally Posted by 1911su16b870

So some relevant stuff just posted by Ben Stoeger on failure to reset in his competition world of training with Glock w GPT and putting it away dirty with little/no lubrication.

Well in the video he says lubing the trigger every 1,000 rounds basically doesn?t make sense to him (for competition) as he alludes to that task being inconvenient for him.

What doesn?t make sense to me is why on earth wouldn?t someone clean and lube their duty weapon or self defense weapon (including lubing the trigger with a simple drop of oil or grease where Glock recommends after cleaning) and to do so especially AFTER each 1,000 rounds? For that matter, a self defense carry gun should ALWAYS be cleaned and lubed to the fullest extent possible. Range toys on the other hand, ?mehhh not really critical if running them dirty all the time.

For a police duty weapon or a self defense gun for anyone else, why would one carry a dirty gun of any amount of rounds fired through it? Especially 1,000+ rounds fired in it and without the added assurance of maintaining it with a drop of lube for ultimate reliability. I don?t get that logic of not keeping a gun used for self defense properly lubed and in tip top cleanliness condition.

Rowsdowner…. You seem like you’ve done all the research and have all the answers to the question you posed already. I think you’ve already made up your mind on what you intend to do. Personally, I’d leave the original OEM parts alone that already came installed with the Glock. That’s just me. A 4lb trigger from a #5.5lb isn’t going to make a difference for the majority in a gunfight at typical combat pistol length distances.

Just my own worthless opinions.

[BearCreekRoad]

Originally Posted by TrailerparkTrash

Well in the video he says lubing the trigger every 1,000 rounds ...

A typical competitive shooter would probably reach 1000 rounds in less than a month. Say once a week you go compete (100 rounds), and once a week you go practice at the range (200 rounds), that would be a little over 3 weeks to reach 1000 rounds.

How long would it take a typical LEO to shoot 1000 rounds through their duty gun? Many months? Years?

[TrailerparkTrash]

Originally Posted by BearCreekRoad

A typical competitive shooter would probably reach 1000 rounds in less than a month. Say once a week you go compete (100 rounds), and once a week you go practice at the range (200 rounds), that would be a little over 3 weeks to reach 1000 rounds.

How long would it take a typical LEO to shoot 1000 rounds through their duty gun? Many months? Years?

So 1,000 rounds per month and one can?t clean nor lube his pistol one day out of that month?

At the bare bones minimum, how about a bore snake down the barrel, some gun scrubber on everything else, followed by a few drops of oil on the rails, slide, barrel and trigger group? On a Glock that would take all but 2 minutes out of the month.

[eho0925]

The GPT provides (subjectively) more performance than the standard factory Gen5 / dot connector trigger? 4lb (average) trigger weight (that?s on par with some popular 1911/2011 pistols in service).

On the topic of maintenance?. Again, my individual sample sizing? I?ve got 3k through my GPT (in a Gen5 G19)? no issues to report? no degradation of performance. I have stripped down the trigger group and relubed twice. I use Slip 2000 EWG gun grease?and apply a small amount of the grease to the (3) locations per the factory maintenance diagram.

[1911su16b870]

Great posts! I've spoken with a close friend and competition shooter. My take away is the competition guys run them hard and put them up dirty and don't really clean them during the shooting season.

I just put one needle oiler 1/16-inch drop of oil on the trigger bar/connector after cleaning (every 1-2 weeks after use) plus the other four drops.

[stormvet]

Originally Posted by esy

When a factory Glock trigger is broken in, the pull is roughly anywhere from 4-4.5 pounds. You can get the gritty feel of the trigger out by getting some lube onto the trigger bar. The only thing you?ll never get rid of is the slop and mush of the trigger before it breaks.

I?ve shot somewhere around 15k+ out of my duty G17, and even more out of my personal Glocks. I?m used to it and would like a cleaner, crisper break. Like I said though, I?m used to it so it?s of no consequence to me. Get used to the trigger and it?ll run just fine.

Agree really don?t understand why you?d want to put one in a duty gun. Nothing wrong or bad about a stock Gen 5 trigger out of the box. Or any other Glock trigger that?s been shot some.

I ran two guns this morning at the range bunch of different drills. A CZ SP-01 and a 20 year old Glock 22c both have a crap ton of rounds through them. In every drill without exception I shot the 22c better, even in the Bill drill I shot the Glock faster and more accurately.

I can understand it in a competition gun, where split fractions of a second matter and if your gun fails you just lose the match not your life. But with a duty gun it could very well be your life, not worth it.