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He expands on this here. In essence, if you want to understand what the Bible is saying to you and how to apply it to your life, you need to first understand what it meant to the original audience, and that is what he is suggesting. Read it and decide for yourself if the point raised is worth keeping in mind.
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#42
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Rabbis didn't write Leviticus.
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#43
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Looking at the failures of churchs adopting women pastors. Indicative of Gods infalable word.
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God so loved the world He gave His only Son... Believe in Him and have everlasting life. John 3:16 NRA,,, Lifer United Air Epic Fail Video ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u99Q7pNAjvg |
#44
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#46
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We could start a running tally. But we'll start with my previous example -- working on the Sabbath. More than that, he actually said that the Sabbath was made for us, we were not made for the Sabbath. In other words, many rules are made for our benefit but we need not follow them when they don't serve us very well. People are sacred. The rules are, well, guidelines. They're no substitute for good judgment & common sense.
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#47
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At my church they can hold the title "Minister" and be can be licensed, but they can't hold the title "Pastor." |
#48
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Jesus had the correct interpretation of the Law and kept it perfectly. It was the Jewish leaders of His time that made their own interpretations of the Law and He was correcting them. I'd suggest a solid Christian Pastor to teach you Romans 9-11. E.g. - Ro10:1 Brethren, my heart’s desire and my prayer to God for them [the OT Jews] is for their salvation. 2 For I testify about them that they have a zeal for God, but not in accordance with knowledge. 3 For not knowing about God’s righteousness and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.
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Pastor Bill "Unless I am convinced by Scripture and plain reason- I do not accept the authority of popes and councils [i.e. any man]- my conscience is captive to the Word of God." Martin Luther |
#49
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#50
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#51
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Yea, maybe I'm completely over-emphasizing the old rabbinical idea that the entire Torah can be summed up in "Love God and love your neighbor."
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#52
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Pastor Bill "Unless I am convinced by Scripture and plain reason- I do not accept the authority of popes and councils [i.e. any man]- my conscience is captive to the Word of God." Martin Luther |
#53
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Teaching or excersing authority over a man etc is not to be equated with a position of " Pastor " in all situations. If you don't care for women pastors or teachers go elsewhere. Pastoral counsel or guidance is not always " authority."
I, you are not bound by any reasoning to sit under a women unless you make that choice yourself. For a side note, I have not in 75 years heard of or seen a women pastor or teacher ruin or destroy a church congregation. May some of you have seen this. Psalm 1 Last edited by Garand Hunter; 03-08-2019 at 9:16 AM.. Reason: paragraph placement |
#54
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God's word doesn't equate women teaching or exercising authority with the position of pastor. God just says it's not allowed (literally). It's not a matter of "don't care...go elsewhere," it's a matter of don't do it anywhere. And, the argument isn't cultural - it goes all the way back to the fall! And, it's not a matter of what we've seen or experienced. I'm sure that there are excellent women teachers out there. It's just wrong for them to teach or exercise authority over a man. If you sit under a woman teacher, you sit in serious sin. Not my rules, God's.
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Pastor Bill "Unless I am convinced by Scripture and plain reason- I do not accept the authority of popes and councils [i.e. any man]- my conscience is captive to the Word of God." Martin Luther |
#55
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Quote : If you sit under a woman teacher, you sit in serious sin. Not my rules, God's. Sorry Bill, you have overstepped your authority. You have put yourself in the place of God with your statement, no reference to " you sit in serious sin." is in the scripture. I am well acquainted with I Timothy ch 2, and you just excluded all non child bearing women from salvation by faith thru grace ! by quoting this scripture in the context of this thread. Verse 15, But women will be SAVED etc. not preserved as you stated in your quotation above, I am referencing the King James and New King James translations.
I am not rebuking you, but pointing out no direct reference to " you sit in serious sin " is anywhere to be found. As I said, if you don't care for women teaching or pastoring go elsewhere. Ease up on pronouncing sin on me or anyone else, and no, I did not take it personally. Psalm 1 Last edited by Garand Hunter; 03-08-2019 at 3:43 PM.. Reason: structure |
#56
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In v.15, Paul is not teaching that women are eternally saved from the wages of sin through the bearing of children. That would contradict teaching that salvation is by grace through faith alone (Eph. 2:8-9). The future tense and the plural indicate that he was not even referring to Eve - whom he referenced in V.13-14. Paul teaches here that although a woman, Eve, precipitated the Fall and all women bear that responsibility, they may be preserved from that stigma through childbearing. The freeing of women from the stigma of having led the race into sin happens when they bring up a righteous children. Women are very important in God's plan because they have the primary responsibility for rearing godly children - a different but not lesser role than men. Paul’s point is that while a woman may have led the race into sin, women have the privilege of leading the race out of sin to godliness. That does not mean that God wants all women to bear children; some He doesn’t even want married (1 Cor. 7:25–40). Paul is speaking in general terms. Pain with childbirth was the punishment for Eve's sin (Gen. 3:16), - the privilege of childbearing delivers women from the stigma of that sin. When you disobey God's command, it is sin. Sins against God's chosen authority for the church are serious sins as you participate in the sin of the leaders of such a church who promote that sin. You support their sin. If you sit under a woman teacher, you sit in serious sin. Not my rules, God's. 1 Tim 2:11f are very clear.
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Pastor Bill "Unless I am convinced by Scripture and plain reason- I do not accept the authority of popes and councils [i.e. any man]- my conscience is captive to the Word of God." Martin Luther |
#57
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Sorry Bro Bill, it is your rules, there is no such rule indicating serious sin in Paul's instructions to Timothy in the indicated verses. But as for me, you can claim it so all you want to do so. Neither of us can set the standard you attempt to set in place. Have a nice day Bro. I don't back down but stand by my postings. Be Blessed Bro.
Psalm 1 |
#58
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Pastor Bill "Unless I am convinced by Scripture and plain reason- I do not accept the authority of popes and councils [i.e. any man]- my conscience is captive to the Word of God." Martin Luther |
#60
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Modern day Pharisees may disagree with this assessment.
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"I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness; I love only that which they defend. victus exaro somniculosus, somnus exaro ieiunium |
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