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National 2nd Amend. Political & Legal Discussion Discuss national gun rights and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel. |
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#41
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If you listen to the orals they basically end up with the "AR-15 = 'the like' = M16 = Machine gun". It was absolutely disastrous. |
#42
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#43
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#45
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Having someone that really knows the subject matter is important, but we all know the judges decision that "AR-15=M-16" would have happened regardless of how well or poorly the orals went.
The conservatives on SCOTUS know the difference, so this really isn't an issue in my mind. Quote:
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#48
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#51
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Familiarize yourself with "scrutiny" https://legaldictionary.net/strict-scrutiny/ |
#53
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It seems like the assumption was that this was getting held per the NYSRPA case along with many other cases.
Now it's not held, and it's getting distributed. So that's may mean they're looking to take this as a replacement case. |
#54
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Or, could be independent of NYSRPA, since this deals with “Arms,” not necessarily “Keep” or “Bear.” But, it may even be more mundane than that, relating to latency in enforcement of the law and whether and how much that is permissible.
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#55
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This might be a good vehicle for "common use" but otherwise the case is pretty weird. A little summary from my memory:
1) MA adopted the federal AWB ban in the 90s with grandfathered AW and mags. 2) MA gun sellers basically removed adjustable stock, bayonet lug, and the threaded barrel (all flash hiders/compensates are pinned) and you have a MA compliant AR. 3) In 2016, AG said "Oh, btw all these MA-compliant rifles are actually AW but I won't prosecute you! " 4) MA dealers are confused and some just keep selling them. Why I think it is weird is at first it seemed they wanted to argue the AG exceeded her authority with the notion that MA-compliant AWs = copies of AW that are banned. The status quo would be that her guidance was exceeding the intent of MA legislature. Instead, IIRC at the appeal, we got to "Well, the initial ban was unconstitutional so I guess the guidance is also irrelevant." In the appeals, IIRC, they have the two-step approach and some other like military-context consideration. In these last briefs, they basically sum it all up: "The approach taken is wrong, please address this." To me, it seems the "point" is a little muddled which might make SCOTUS feel uneasy. |
#57
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That problem in VA is mainly due to SCOTUS inaction.. If they had decided an assault weapons ban case (either side winning) then the tensions would be calmer I think. It not just assault weapons tho, VA is planning more then that.
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#59
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I strongly suspect that regardless of how NYSRPA goes that Worman will be heard in the near future, and that tensions in VA will be eased, with both sides there withholding further escalation pending an outcome in Worman.
__________________
The one thing worse than defeat is surrender. |
#60
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Last edited by kuug; 01-08-2020 at 7:32 AM.. |
#61
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#62
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Worman was discussed at today's conference but not granted cert. 3 other cases were granted cert but they are not 2A related. Further orders from today's conference will be announced on Monday. It is likely the case will be stayed, or scheduled for the next conference.
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#64
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It's been stayed. It will join the rest of them. That's good news for NYSRPA, it indicates that they feel no need to grant cert to another case to set the new standard for 2nd amendment cases.
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#66
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Could be as simple as remanding it back to the appeals court based on a newly established standard of review, or they are saving it for next term as a nationwide case. Only time will tell, we'll be awaiting for the NYSRPA results before this case goes anywhere
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#67
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I'd bet on remand pending NYSRPA. SCOTUS is simply holding all 2A cases worth a grain of salt.
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#68
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NRA member, SAF member, CalGuns contributor NRA Certified Instructor |
#69
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I think what he means is average number of shots fired, not necessarily hits made, by police officers in order to stop an assailant. The police officers aspect is important, as in this day and age officers seem to have a habit of shooting their guns to slide lock. So if you have one officer emptying his 17 round mag in his Glock, and one assailant stopped, the average shoots way up.
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#70
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HOT DANG!!!
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__________________
240+ examples of CCWs Saving Lives. |
#73
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Every case they had stayed is going to conference this friday. We're just likely to see them all denied cert as they are to be granted given how treacherous Roberts and Kavanaugh have shown themselves to be.
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#76
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USSCt has always been selective in what they hear and decide on almost every subject. So many cases are appealed, there's only 9 of them, so some issues get thrown out with the bathwater (old saying).
But there is hope with what Alito said on the NY case, how Thomas has been complaining for years after Heller & McDonald the USSCt has been ducking the issue, and now how Kavanaugh, Gorsuch also think the issue on some levels needs to be decided so states will have guidance on how to proceed. And I'm a pessimist. April showers bring May flowers. Yuck. Can't believe I just said that. |
#77
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I think Paladin said there’s movement next week in conferences.
I think they will deny cert on this as the magazine cases are coming through the courts. If Duncan is upheld in the 9th then there will be a circuit split. The best case for “common-use” is probably Pena. |
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