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National 2nd Amend. Political & Legal Discussion Discuss national gun rights and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #2761  
Old 06-23-2022, 7:27 AM
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The only good 2-step is the Texas 2-step. Every other 2-step can get wrekd


Quote:
Since Heller and McDonald, the Courts of Appeals have devel- oped a “two-step” framework for analyzing Second Amendment chal- lenges that combines history with means-end scrutiny. The Court re- jects that two-part approach as having one step too many.
Quote:
"Step one is broadly consistent with Heller, which demands a test rooted in the Sec- ond Amendment’s text, as informed by history. But Heller and McDon- ald do not support a second step that applies means-end scrutiny in the Second Amendment context."
Quote:
"Heller’s methodology centered on constitutional text and history. It did not invoke any means-end test such as strict or intermediate scrutiny, and it expressly rejected any interest-balancing inquiry akin to intermediate scrutiny."
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Last edited by SkyHawk; 06-23-2022 at 7:30 AM..
  #2762  
Old 06-23-2022, 7:29 AM
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Under the new one step standard, any chance that there will be a challenge to at least the 1986 FOPA ban on "new" automatic weapons? Seems like that one should be toast because you can buy a machine gun just not a newer one which denies any compelling government interest because you can still get them, they just cost an exorbitant amount.

Seems like other things that should be toast are:

Roster
AWB
Mag limits

I think the NFA tax stamp stands but maybe not blanket bans on suppressors?

Anyway, with this ruling I see some glimmer of hope for a lot of the most onerous stuff to go the way of the dodo.
  #2763  
Old 06-23-2022, 7:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elgatodeacero View Post
Some of you people are so negative you would complain that the free beer in heaven isn’t cold enough.
I actually might do that.
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  #2764  
Old 06-23-2022, 7:34 AM
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Time for me to start sourcing the unicorn feathers I’m gonna need to meet CA’s licensing requirements…
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  #2765  
Old 06-23-2022, 7:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrBrent View Post
Here comes the mile long list of additional things to get your CCW. 100 hrs of training, 1 million dollars of insurance, re qualifying twice a year and on and on. Then we sue again and 10 more years we win again but they will not stop unfortunately.
The fun thing is that they appear to have specifically addressed long waits and exorbitant fees. If long wait times persist and if it is overly costly to obtain the permit to carry then you can likely win in court.

Realistically, the courts will allow the LEAs or whoever is issuing permits to take a few months or even as much as a year to ramp up their permit issuing process and cut down the wait times.
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  #2766  
Old 06-23-2022, 7:35 AM
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Originally Posted by MrBrent View Post
Here comes the mile long list of additional things to get your CCW. 100 hrs of training, 1 million dollars of insurance, re qualifying twice a year and on and on. Then we sue again and 10 more years we win again but they will not stop unfortunately.
Don't be a downer. A win is a win and we are better off now. We got a good ruling on this one.
  #2767  
Old 06-23-2022, 7:36 AM
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I think our only hope is if sheriff departments just give up the fight and start issuing according to the new SCOTUS standard. Like if OC and LA just start issuing en-masse then the house of cards will fall.
  #2768  
Old 06-23-2022, 7:37 AM
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Originally Posted by wchutt View Post
“That said, because any permitting scheme can be put to abusive ends, we do not rule out constitutional challenges to shall-issue regimes where, for example, lengthy wait times in processing license applications or exorbitant fees deny ordinary citizens their right to public carry.”
- Page 36/135 on the PDF, page 30 of the opinion of the court.

This is good but seems like it just opens up another years long court battle. The restrictive states can pass these schemes and just wait out the near decades long litigation before they are struck down. Finally what would be considered lengthy or exorbitant?
  #2769  
Old 06-23-2022, 7:38 AM
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I think all the people critical of the decision should stop the pissing and moaning and enjoy the victory. Find your favorite refreshment and toast the good news. It has taken years and a lot of funds to get to this point. Relax and enjoy it. In the coming days the decision will be examined to death by both sides. I'll bet most of you haven't even read the sixty pages, but you want to inflict your opinion on the rest of us. This fight has been going on for well over fifty years, it will continue for many more. From a quick glance at the decision there is much hope in the death of intermediate scrutiny and the dozen or so cases that will get remanded back down to the lower courts for reconsideration. Let it play out and enjoy the decision. JNO
  #2770  
Old 06-23-2022, 7:39 AM
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The best way to assess “lengthy” and “exhorbitant” would be to take an average of the 43 states that do CCW licensing properly and look at their average issuance times and average expense for permit.
  #2771  
Old 06-23-2022, 7:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elgatodeacero View Post
The best way to assess “lengthy” and “exhorbitant” would be to take an average of the 43 states that do CCW licensing properly and look at their average issuance times and average expense for permit.
Well, 25 states are constitutional carry with 0 wait time or fees.
  #2772  
Old 06-23-2022, 7:41 AM
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Originally Posted by bhp1410 View Post
I think our only hope is if sheriff departments just give up the fight and start issuing according to the new SCOTUS standard. Like if OC and LA just start issuing en-masse then the house of cards will fall.
Villanueva already stated he would respect the courts decision. So LA is good to go.
  #2773  
Old 06-23-2022, 7:43 AM
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We still don’t know if open carry can be banned!?

Hopefully the Nichols case will answer that.
  #2774  
Old 06-23-2022, 7:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bonzai272 View Post
As mentioned by others, curious about reciprocity amongst States. Will a non-resident permit fly in CA now. Anything mentioned about this in the ruling?
I am highly interested in this
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  #2775  
Old 06-23-2022, 7:46 AM
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Originally Posted by numpty View Post
Is "self defense" acceptable "justification" now?
No justification is needed now
  #2776  
Old 06-23-2022, 7:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elgatodeacero View Post
Some of you people are so negative you would complain that the free beer in heaven isn’t cold enough.
It's called Battered Gun Owner Syndrome.
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  #2777  
Old 06-23-2022, 7:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by radioburning View Post
Time for me to start sourcing the unicorn feathers I’m gonna need to meet CA’s licensing requirements…
No unicorn feathers needed.

Quote:
That said, because any permitting scheme can be put toward abusive ends, we do not rule out constitutional challenges to shall-issue regimes where, for example, lengthy wait times in processing license applications or exorbitant fees deny ordinary citizens their right to public carry.
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  #2778  
Old 06-23-2022, 7:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lastinline View Post
And that could become a valid, useful tool, not only as a means to make a living, but as a method to punish governments that trample rights. Kind of like professional ambulance chasers, but those who focus on 2A issues. An entire cottage industry should spring up, with the sole purpose of raking in $$$ for every conceivable slight. It’s our time now, and for once the Democrats need to feel some real pain.
Ambulance chasers get “fast” money because of settlements, not any actual
Violations of law. They send a pre written letter to the insurance company, and take 40%.

2a cases will take forever to settle and not worth the time of any ambulance chaser types.
  #2779  
Old 06-23-2022, 7:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CGZ View Post
- Page 36/135 on the PDF, page 30 of the opinion of the court.

This is good but seems like it just opens up another years long court battle. The restrictive states can pass these schemes and just wait out the near decades long litigation before they are struck down. Finally what would be considered lengthy or exorbitant?
True, but at least SCOTUS is aware of it and may be looking for a case to further clarify.
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  #2780  
Old 06-23-2022, 7:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ironpegasus View Post
Under the new one step standard, any chance that there will be a challenge to at least the 1986 FOPA ban on "new" automatic weapons? Seems like that one should be toast because you can buy a machine gun just not a newer one which denies any compelling government interest because you can still get them, they just cost an exorbitant amount.

Seems like other things that should be toast are:

Roster
AWB
Mag limits

I think the NFA tax stamp stands but maybe not blanket bans on suppressors?

Anyway, with this ruling I see some glimmer of hope for a lot of the most onerous stuff to go the way of the dodo.
This is a great reminder that this isn't the end. The gloves are off and it's time for us to start swinging!

Back those organizations and lawsuits that you support!
  #2781  
Old 06-23-2022, 7:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CGZ View Post
Well, 25 states are constitutional carry with 0 wait time or fees.
States like Utah still offer a concealed carry permit that is shall issue and must be processed by law within 60 days.
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  #2782  
Old 06-23-2022, 8:11 AM
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Closed - discussion to http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s....php?t=1802804 please.
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