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  #41  
Old 09-19-2018, 2:37 PM
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180ls1 180ls1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by desert dog View Post
That is regarded among hunters and MANY wardens as a very biased and misleading study.

Some things to consider:

"All 269 incidents used to classify gun defenses were incidents involving aggressive bears, while less than a third of the bear spray incidents involve aggressive bears"

"Another indicator of selection bias in the two bear spray vs. gun studies is that numerous incidents were included where people did not have time to use their gun (over 20% of cases), but no incidents were included where people did not have time to use bear spray".

"Hunters, who are frequently off-the beaten path and handle dead game, are much more likely to encounter a dangerous bear than hikers on a well-traveled trail. So it makes sense that hunters with firearms are many times more likely to encounter an aggressive bear than a hiker with spray"

If you are hunting and carrying a gun already, it is pretty stupid to throw your gun down and fumble around for bear spray. If you are hiking or fishing, bear spray is a more viable first response IMO.

My comment alluded to the fact that bear spray can't be 99% effective as they claim; because we hear every year about incidents where it failed to stop a bear.
I dont disagree with what you said. My intent is actually more to show that pepper spray can be quite effective and should be considered. There are too many hunters who think they are above the norm when it comes to their shooting skills and need to face reality. Pepper spray can be a great tool.

I was bluff charged by a bear in Utah. I only had my bow on me but it would have hit me before I got a pistol or bear spray out if it wanted to.
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  #42  
Old 09-19-2018, 4:40 PM
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The spray barely works against people under perfect conditions. I know bears have a more sensitive nose but if the stuff can’t be guaranteed against people I wouldn’t trust it to fully stop a grizzly. I’ll stick to lead. Either way, it’s an old topic we have hashed out several times before. RIP to the guide.

Last edited by deckhandmike; 09-19-2018 at 4:43 PM..
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  #43  
Old 09-19-2018, 5:41 PM
Bull Elk Bull Elk is offline
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I carry a firearm every time I head out in the woods to scout or hunt. Always.
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  #44  
Old 09-19-2018, 6:22 PM
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This is why I carry low ready...not slung on my shoulder. Ive trekked long ways like this and its not hard. I rather be ready to shoot than be mauled by something.

I also dont get how people carry a "backup" and stuff it in their packs. Or, forget all about their pistol when its strapped to their chest! (like that guy who got mauled twice and finally remember he had a pistol on him)...either way, prayer out to their love ones.
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  #45  
Old 09-19-2018, 6:49 PM
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It's a crappy situation all around. The main issue I see is the gun wasn't on either of them. Rinella and Janis went through a bait attack and none of them were armed at the time. It worked out better for them, but is an intense story.

Be prepared and hope its wasted weight.

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  #46  
Old 09-19-2018, 10:41 PM
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That’s the problem hunting in Grizz territory if they decide to kill you for your elk they try. Black bear will run off if they smell humans more the likely and not attack. Quite A few hunter were attacked last season most were able to kill the bear.

Last edited by Shoot-it; 09-19-2018 at 10:50 PM..
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  #47  
Old 09-20-2018, 10:00 AM
drutledge79 drutledge79 is offline
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If I were hunting in grizzly country I'd had a firearm and spray. Rifle if I'm hunting. Pistol if I'm recovering/scouting/assisting. As for black bears they should be worried about me. ;-)
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  #48  
Old 09-20-2018, 10:11 AM
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My wife and I ran into a Grizzly on a trial in Glacier NP. I was carrying a can of bear spray on my chest and a .357 on my hip. After making eye contact for about 1/2 of a second the bear ran off. We were about 20 yards apart. He was so fast that I'm sure that if he'd come at me that I would have been very hard pressed to deploy either device before he was on me. Also, my .357 felt entirely inadequate. IMHO when in grizzly country, you need at least .44 Mag with proper loads and you need a high quality holster with as good fit and no straps or snaps to release before drawing. I now have a 4" S&W 629 and a Bianchi Combat Master leather holster. I don't know why you would bother carrying your sidearm in a pack, might as well leave it at home and save the weight.
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  #49  
Old 09-20-2018, 2:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deckhandmike View Post
The spray barely works against people under perfect conditions. I know bears have a more sensitive nose but if the stuff can’t be guaranteed against people I wouldn’t trust it to fully stop a grizzly. I’ll stick to lead. Either way, it’s an old topic we have hashed out several times before. RIP to the guide.
Agreed.

Pepper spray for bears is next to useless.

Works well on dogs though but you gotta hit them in eyes and/or nose, which can be difficult. A taser may be more effective; no clothes to prevent making a circuit.

Only a BIG gun will save you from an attacking bear. The bigger the gun and the more rounds, the better.

Think Desert Eagle in 44mag (or even 50 AE, if you can handle it), if you're in Grizzly country.
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Last edited by sgt1372; 09-24-2018 at 9:59 AM..
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  #50  
Old 09-23-2018, 10:07 PM
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Update, Copy and Paste:

https://trib.com/lifestyles/recreati...562b06717.html

Wyoming officials offer details of grizzly attack that killed hunting guide

JACKSON — The grizzly bear that caused tragedy high in the Teton Wilderness never let up from a full-bore charge before hitting the Jackson Hole outfitter she fatally mauled.

When the approximately 250-pound sow bruin first came into view, pounding downhill out of a clearing, Mark Uptain was removing the head of a four-by-four bull elk for his client, Corey Chubon.

It was Friday afternoon, and the elk’s four quarters had been removed without any sign of bears. Chubon had killed the elk with an arrow the day before, but the hunters didn’t find the carcass until Friday. Even so, the hunters saw no sign grizzlies had touched it.

The sow grizzly, in other words, was not coming back to claim her meal. Her 1 1/2-year-old male cub was nearby, but ultimately he was watching from the outskirts and wasn’t being threatened. Nevertheless, she was not bluffing.

“It just came on a full run,” said Brad Hovinga, who supervises the Wyoming Game and Fish Department’s Jackson Region. “There was no hesitation.”

Even for grizzlies, which are inherently protective and aggressive animals, this is unusual behavior.

“A female with a yearling attacking in this manner, I’ve never dealt with that,” said Dan Thompson, Game and Fish’s large carnivore chief.

The now-dead grizzly, around 10 years old, was in good shape, with plenty of fat and nothing outwardly wrong.

Chubon, who did not respond to repeated requests for interviews, provided the above account to Wyoming Game and Fish investigators. The Florida man, who was on a guided Martin Outfitters bow hunt with his father, relayed his recollection to Game and Fish at length on several occasions.

As the bear first hit Uptain, who carried bear spray in a hip-slung holster, Chubon went for a Glock that his guide had left with their gear a few yards uphill. For some reason, he could not get the handgun to fire. When the female grizzly diverted her attention away from Uptain and toward the Floridian, he tossed the pistol to his guide. Evidently, it didn’t make it to Uptain, who was a lifelong elk hunter, small-business owner and family man.

Within moments, the bear turned back toward Uptain. Chubon, whose leg, chest and arms were lacerated by the bruin, ran for his life. His last view of Uptain, which he relayed to investigators, was of the guide on his feet trying to fight off the sow.

In an interview with the Orlando, Florida TV station WKMG, he described Uptain as his hero.

“I’m just extremely blessed and fortunate to have made it out of this situation alive,” Chubon told WKMG.

Bolting from the chaos, Chubon huffed it uphill to the duo’s horses, mounted one and rode uphill to a ridgeline near the crest of 10,258-foot-high Terrace Mountain in the Bridger-Teton National Forest. Amazingly, he caught a signal to phone authorities, who flew in to rescue him. Teton County Undersheriff Matt Carr, who was among the first responders, said the call out was a feat in itself.

“I’m not quite sure how he did that, because there’s no cell service out there at all,” Carr said. “That’s something we could not duplicate when we were there on the scene.”

Using the description from Chubon, searchers in a helicopter were able to locate the elk carcass that caused conflict around 7 p.m. Friday. There was less than an hour of daylight left, and the call was made to suspend the search until sunup Saturday.

“We ran out of flight time,” Carr said. “Helicopter restrictions don’t allow us to fly past a hard-and-fast time. And by that point, we couldn’t get ground teams in. The risk to the rescuers was far too great at that moment.”

It will never be known exactly what unfolded between the grizzlies and Uptain after Chubon left the scene.

When Carr and Game and Fish wardens Jon Stephens and Kyle Lash arrived at the quartered elk early Saturday morning to continue the search, they initially assumed that a drag mark heading downhill was from Uptain. Later, investigators discovered this was the slick left from the elk’s gut pile.

“It was confusing, because there was blood and struggle and debris from the elk dying,” Hovinga said. “There was a blood trail from the wounded elk coming in. On the scene, it was difficult to determine whose blood was whose.”
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  #51  
Old 09-24-2018, 5:17 AM
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TTT
With the above account we can be sure that. Mr. Chubon did all that he was capable of. He evidently wasn't familiar with the Glock trigger, he says that he tried to shoot the bear but couldn't get the gun to fire, so he tried to throw the gun to the Guide.

I think there should be a adapter that allows the bear spray to be mounted onto the barrel of a gun, deploy the spray, and ahoot a round at the same time. He deployed the spray too late, but that most likely wouldn't have beed effective, because when the bear saw them it went into a full charge straight for them.

As Mr. Chubon ran for his life, the last he saw of the Guide was his last stand to fight for his life. The Man was standing fighting a grizzly bear, if his bear spray was set up like a 12 gage bangstick, he could have may be survived. Yea, bear spray with a 12 gage bangstick firing mechanism.

If you look at the area it is sparsely patchy forest, and open meadows. The account of them exterminating the killer bear tell something.

Last edited by tony270; 09-24-2018 at 5:47 AM..
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  #52  
Old 09-24-2018, 8:15 AM
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Jesus, what a way to go.
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Giving lewdogg21 advice on hunting. That’s like David Hogg giving advice to the NRA.
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Disagree. Been trying to teach lewdogg21 how to hunt. It's like trying to teach Steve Wonder how to see. Not sure we're ever going to get there.
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  #53  
Old 09-24-2018, 9:44 AM
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Never let your guard down, never be out in the woods without a gun at or in hand. Be ready to kill any animal that's threatening in any way or distance from you. Never ever think for a heart beat that any animal is bluffing, it's always serious.
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  #54  
Old 09-24-2018, 9:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lewdogg21 View Post
Jesus, what a way to go.
Yep.

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  #55  
Old 09-24-2018, 10:38 AM
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Reminds me of a thread here a few years ago. OP was asking about hunting by himself. I strongly suggested people should hunt in pairs, even in areas not frequented by bears. I was lambasted and told I was an idiot since mountain lions, wolves, etc. are not really a threat. I realize this was in Alaska, not the lower 48, but **** happens. Be prepared!
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