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Blades, Bows and Tools Discussion of non-firearm weapons and camping/survival tools.

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  #1  
Old 08-31-2018, 11:30 AM
4aces 4aces is offline
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Default home defense

is any knife legal inside the home? if so can you suggest a CHEAP folding "wave" or fixed blade karambit with a horizontal sheath.

Last edited by 4aces; 08-31-2018 at 11:35 AM..
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Old 08-31-2018, 11:53 AM
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Any knife you can buy in CA ** is legal inside your home; depending on your location, might not be legal to carry outside your home.

** so are lots of knives you might buy outside CA and bring in, but there are exceptions for stuff like a 'trench knife' that arguably has illegal brass knuckles as part of the hilt.

Why would you want cheap for a self-defense tool? 'Reasonable', for whatever your budget might be, seems like a better goal.
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Old 09-04-2018, 12:14 AM
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is any knife legal inside the home? if so can you suggest a CHEAP folding "wave" or fixed blade karambit with a horizontal sheath.
Karambit was originally adapted from tools used in farming or gardening. It is essentially a weaponized sickle.

There are some great and relatively inexpensive garden/farm tools that would make awesome home defense tools. Harvest knives or sickles, dibbler tools, hori-hori and such. All the ones we've purchased come with leather or plastic sheaths.

Brush Clearing Sickle with Carbon Steel Blade and Aluminum Handle, 9" https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01FJMKND2..._79IJBb7MNHNTX

Grass Sickle https://www.amazon.com/dp/B007KKCHG8..._CzIJBbNMZGMK9

Steel Grass Sickle w/ Wooden Handle https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002SW31O0..._X9IJBbFZA77BP

Check out the similar items or 'Frequently Bought Together' section farther down the page.


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Old 09-05-2018, 4:00 AM
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can anyone describe a scenario where using a bladed weapon would be preferable over a gun in a home defense situation?

Last edited by 4aces; 09-05-2018 at 6:10 AM..
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Old 09-05-2018, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by 4aces View Post
can anyone describe a scenario where using a bladed weapon would be preferable over a gun in a home defense situation?
I'll echo that question.

Knives are weapons of last resort. I'll take a big flashlight or small bat over a knife any day of the week. Longer range and more stopping power. Knives are like .22s. Plenty of killing power but not much stopping power.

A good firearm with good training beats all that, of course.
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Old 09-05-2018, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by iambic View Post
Karambit was originally adapted from tools used in farming or gardening. It is essentially a weaponized sickle.

There are some great and relatively inexpensive garden/farm tools that would make awesome home defense tools. Harvest knives or sickles, dibbler tools, hori-hori and such. All the ones we've purchased come with leather or plastic sheaths.
Or even a $12 Cold Steel South African Kukri machete. Looks like the went up to $16 now. Amazon is so volatile.

https://www.amazon.com/Cold-Steel-40...eel+kukri+plus

A Glock is worlds better, but I like talking about knives, hahah.
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Old 09-05-2018, 11:10 AM
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can anyone describe a scenario where using a bladed weapon would be preferable over a gun in a home defense situation?
Only if you need to be quite and enjoy cleaning hazardous bio waste off your person.
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Old 09-05-2018, 4:21 PM
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how bout this, I'm home alone and notice a perp trying to gain entry into my house. I leave the house thru another exit and call the police. They arrive and I have on my side an illegally carried firearm opposed to a legally carried knife. what do you think
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Old 09-05-2018, 5:24 PM
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can anyone describe a scenario where using a bladed weapon would be preferable over a gun in a home defense situation?
Quote:
Originally Posted by CVShooter View Post
I'll echo that question.

Knives are weapons of last resort. I'll take a big flashlight or small bat over a knife any day of the week. Longer range and more stopping power. Knives are like .22s. Plenty of killing power but not much stopping power.

A good firearm with good training beats all that, of course.
I suppose it could be problematic to shoot in a crowded house, apartment or apartment complex where it is difficult to ascertain who (or what) is around or behind a wall, door or assailant.

How about a SOG Spirit? It can be converted to a spear or just get a dedicated spear to complement your knife, sickle or machete and extend your range.

SOG Spirit Fixed Blade/Spear Nylon Sheath https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0017234ZS..._PkhKBbMP90TJT





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Last edited by iambic; 09-05-2018 at 5:35 PM..
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  #10  
Old 09-05-2018, 7:33 PM
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how bout this, I'm home alone and notice a perp trying to gain entry into my house. I leave the house thru another exit and call the police. They arrive and I have on my side an illegally carried firearm opposed to a legally carried knife. what do you think
I think that situation is covered by PC 26045
Quote:
26045.

(a) Nothing in Section 25850 is intended to preclude the carrying of any loaded firearm, under circumstances where it would otherwise be lawful, by a person who reasonably believes that any person or the property of any person is in immediate, grave danger and that the carrying of the weapon is necessary for the preservation of that person or property.

(b) A violation of Section 25850 is justifiable when a person who possesses a firearm reasonably believes that person is in grave danger because of circumstances forming the basis of a current restraining order issued by a court against another person who has been found to pose a threat to the life or safety of the person who possesses the firearm. This subdivision may not apply when the circumstances involve a mutual restraining order issued pursuant to Division 10 (commencing with Section 6200) of the Family Code absent a factual finding of a specific threat to the person’s life or safety. It is not the intent of the Legislature to limit, restrict, or narrow the application of current statutory or judicial authority to apply this or other justifications to a defendant charged with violating Section 25400 or committing another similar offense. Upon trial for violating Section 25850, the trier of fact shall determine whether the defendant was acting out of a reasonable belief that the defendant was in grave danger.

(c) As used in this section, “immediate” means the brief interval before and after the local law enforcement agency, when reasonably possible, has been notified of the danger and before the arrival of its assistance.
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Old 09-05-2018, 9:31 PM
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ill read up on that thanks librarian
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Old 09-05-2018, 11:24 PM
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Or even a $12 Cold Steel South African Kukri machete. Looks like the went up to $16 now. Amazon is so volatile.

https://www.amazon.com/Cold-Steel-40...eel+kukri+plus

A Glock is worlds better, but I like talking about knives, hahah.
Couple of years ago, I went to the Cold Steel parking lot sale and bought a dozen Cold Steel Thai machetes for $5 a piece. Gave them out as Christmas presents that year. Kept one and it sits next to my front door.


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Old 09-06-2018, 12:58 AM
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Looks like fun. I might need one of those sharpened shovels.
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Old 09-06-2018, 1:04 AM
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I like the CS Gladius machete - https://www.coldsteel.com/gladius-ma...th-sheath.html

Half that price at amazon and at Walmart when I got them; I have 2. And the plastic training versions are amusing, too.
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There is no value at all complaining or analyzing or reading tea leaves to decide what these bills really mean or actually do; any bill with a chance to pass will be bad for gun owners.

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Old 09-06-2018, 1:28 AM
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I like the CS Gladius machete - https://www.coldsteel.com/gladius-ma...th-sheath.html

Half that price at amazon and at Walmart when I got them; I have 2. And the plastic training versions are amusing, too.
That's a cool one. They have so many. I like the Waki machete too. I think the one I have is the 15.5" 1055 South African Royal Kukri... There are a few that look like that.

https://www.amazon.com/Cold-Steel-Ro..._&dpSrc=detail

The Magnum is a deal right now

https://www.amazon.com/Cold-Steel-97...+steel+machete
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Old 09-06-2018, 4:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
I like the CS Gladius machete - https://www.coldsteel.com/gladius-ma...th-sheath.html

Half that price at amazon and at Walmart when I got them; I have 2. And the plastic training versions are amusing, too.
Im dum, since the above is sharpened on both sides wouldnt that be a dagger and hence illegal? or are only carry knives affected by such law?
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Old 09-06-2018, 10:58 AM
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Im dum, since the above is sharpened on both sides wouldnt that be a dagger and hence illegal? or are only carry knives affected by such law?
Double-edged has no meaning in state knife law; see the sticky for the definition of 'dirk or dagger'.

ETA oops, first post there is already at max 12500 chars - the PC definition is
Quote:
16470.

As used in this part, “dirk” or “dagger” means a knife or other instrument with or without a handguard that is capable of ready use as a stabbing weapon that may inflict great bodily injury or death. A nonlocking folding knife, a folding knife that is not prohibited by Section 21510, or a pocketknife is capable of ready use as a stabbing weapon that may inflict great bodily injury or death only if the blade of the knife is exposed and locked into position.
ETA2 and that was actually already there, just not where I thought I had put it. Sigh.
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There is no value at all complaining or analyzing or reading tea leaves to decide what these bills really mean or actually do; any bill with a chance to pass will be bad for gun owners.

The details only count after the Governor signs the bills.

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Last edited by Librarian; 09-06-2018 at 12:45 PM..
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Old 09-06-2018, 3:57 PM
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how bout this, I'm home alone and notice a perp trying to gain entry into my house. I leave the house thru another exit and call the police. They arrive and I have on my side an illegally carried firearm opposed to a legally carried knife. what do you think
Recently, a bear was shot with a razor sharp arrow and was mortally wounded. The bear still mauled the hunter. Year after year, deer run from a strange sound in the woods and later find themselves feeling a little woozy & covered in blood. Police feel odd punches and sometimes cuff a thug only to find out later those punches were knife punctures in their torso. Blades are scary & highly lethal. But they don't have stopping power needed for self defense. If I'm using a weapon to defend myself, I want the assailant to feel it immediately, not minutes later.

Save the cutlery for the kitchen and use other weapons for self defense.

Blunt objects, pepper spray, tasers, stun guns -- all more effective than knives at stopping an attack. Get some good training and learn basic hand-to-hand as well.

As crazy as James Yeager was sometimes, I really liked his hierarchy of needs: Mindset, Tactics, Skills and Gear (in that order).

Last edited by CVShooter; 09-06-2018 at 4:02 PM..
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Old 09-06-2018, 4:16 PM
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Originally Posted by CVShooter View Post

Blunt objects, pepper spray, tasers, stun guns -- all more effective than knives at stopping an attack. Get some good training and learn basic hand-to-hand as well.

.
i might agree, but a point was made earlier that disarming a guy with a knife is a very scary thought, whereas if the first swing of a bat doesn't knock me out- I can get my hands on it. thanks for all the input! I'de rather face all the above mentioned tools , before a knife.
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Old 09-11-2018, 9:14 AM
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Recently, a bear was shot with a razor sharp arrow and was mortally wounded. The bear still mauled the hunter. Year after year, deer run from a strange sound in the woods and later find themselves feeling a little woozy & covered in blood. Police feel odd punches and sometimes cuff a thug only to find out later those punches were knife punctures in their torso. Blades are scary & highly lethal. But they don't have stopping power needed for self defense. If I'm using a weapon to defend myself, I want the assailant to feel it immediately, not minutes later.

Save the cutlery for the kitchen and use other weapons for self defense.

Blunt objects, pepper spray, tasers, stun guns -- all more effective than knives at stopping an attack. Get some good training and learn basic hand-to-hand as well.

As crazy as James Yeager was sometimes, I really liked his hierarchy of needs: Mindset, Tactics, Skills and Gear (in that order).


The bear was gut shot, by the rear legs. He likely woulda lived a couple days by the looks of him. The hunter left the stand with no wait as he was sure it was a lethal shot. A poor decision and one that he is still in the hospital for. 7 surgeries to date.

I arrowed many bears. Including one a few weeks ago. Most drop within 50 yds dead.

I agree on stopping power tho. I like rifles and headshots myself.
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Old 11-15-2018, 5:36 PM
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I'll echo that question.

Knives are weapons of last resort. I'll take a big flashlight or small bat over a knife any day of the week. Longer range and more stopping power. Knives are like .22s. Plenty of killing power but not much stopping power.

A good firearm with good training beats all that, of course.
I agree. I have taken years of martial arts including bo, sai and bokken/katana. Without very significant training a blade is just as likely to injure the user as the attacker, even if the attacker isn't carrying a firearm.

A bat or even a wooden bokken might be a better weapon as it's less likely to injure you. A strong flashlight can be used as a club and a blinding implement -plus it can help to identify your target so you know it's not your family member. Better yet, what's wrong with a firearm?

If you insist upon a blade for home defense, a medium blade like a wakizashi/machete/kukri might be best. Longer blades don't clear obstructions in a home as well and shorter blades like knives require you to allow an intruder to close into very dangerous ranges.
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Old 11-15-2018, 5:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
I like the CS Gladius machete - https://www.coldsteel.com/gladius-ma...th-sheath.html

Half that price at amazon and at Walmart when I got them; I have 2. And the plastic training versions are amusing, too.
https://www.paulchenhanweiswords.com...do-katana.aspx

I am partial to this one.

I have the Tanto, Wakizashi and Katana. The steel is a bit soft and a little prone to rust if not attended to, but it does hold an edge well.
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Old 11-15-2018, 6:09 PM
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Distance is your friend in a deadly force encounter.

Last thing I want to do is go hands on with a scum in my house. Problem with a knife is that in order to do any damage, you have to go hands on. You are BOTH going to get cut up. Even if you win the encounter, I doubt you will escape unknifed.

I carry my pistol all the time. So does my wife. Only limiting factor is lack of a CCW. Keep your distance. Stay alive.
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Old 11-23-2018, 1:14 PM
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If I had to use a knife for home defense, it would be a machete.
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Old 11-23-2018, 2:08 PM
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Using a knife for any defensive situation is fine...as long as that's all there is.

You'll be getting the other guy's blood (and other bodily fluids) on you - along with whatever disease-causing pathogens are in it. Yuk!
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Old 11-25-2018, 7:36 PM
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Just go for busse ak47. Or full on katana.
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Old 11-25-2018, 7:37 PM
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Or the reasonable thing, mossberg/ Winchester 12 gauge
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Old 11-27-2018, 1:02 PM
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To those who say a knife is not a formidable weapon in close quarters (extremely), Id offer that there are countless incapacitating points easily accessible with a knife that require more precision with a firearm. Someone above spoke of knockdown power vs. killing ability. Many have said, including throngs of trauma docs, that there are a few key points for an average handgun round to immediately incapacitate an assailant. A knife slash, rather than stab (though they can be effective as well), can be readily laid upon countless arteries, soft tissue, and the like while up real close & personal. Im a big gun fan, make no mistake. Handguns, however, are notoriously poor on the knockdown component while certainly capable in end result. Ive spoken with several oddball type no-names from nowhere who would rather have a knife I side six feet or sothat puts you on the attacker on less time than it takes for the better than average to raise and accurately fire a handgun while not under stress. Certainly, few would consider an armed intrusion / encounter to be a situation lacking elevated tension. If youre in an apartment or have the jump up close? Knife. Sorry guys but the stats are there. Theyre the very same ones we all quote when referring to the dangers and straight homicides committed annually by weapons other than firearms. Furthermore, blunt I strummers can be exceedingly well chosen for such circumstances, but the key to a non-firearm vs. firearm victory is in smothering the gun-armed adversary. Keeping distance is to the benefit of he wielding the gun. Ask your Tun of the mill operator his opinion. While I would expect the number of responses you receive will vary at a the rate of twice (plus some) of the number with whom you speak, Im confident the outcome will be surprising, to say the least, to many here, if the responses are to be taken at face value.


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Old 11-27-2018, 3:17 PM
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To those who say a knife is not a formidable weapon in close quarters (extremely), Id offer that there are countless incapacitating points easily accessible with a knife that require more precision with a firearm.
Depends on the knife, caliber of gun too for that matter.

A 3" folder is not going to inspire confidence in the dark, through who knows what clothing layers, tissue, etc... always assume if someone breaks in they have a gun.
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Old 11-27-2018, 8:25 PM
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A shotgun would be my first choice but if I didn't have a firearm and had to use an edged weapon I'd let out a blood curdling scream and assault the intruder with a good old fashioned tomahawk.
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