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  #1  
Old 11-05-2018, 9:34 AM
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Default Hi-Vis Sight

Bought one of these for my 870 Wingmaster:

http://www.hivizsights.com/product/m-series/

I cinch to install - just key right off of the front bead sight. Think it is going to work well.
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  #2  
Old 11-05-2018, 12:23 PM
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It will,,, all my front sights on all my shotguns and pistols are green FO.

In the sun they come alive and in failing light they are like big green light bulbs on your gun.

Randy
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Old 11-05-2018, 12:48 PM
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Default ><

Depends on what you plan to use the shotgun for. Personally, I don't like them on a practical use shotgun, does more harm then good IMHO
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Old 11-05-2018, 2:21 PM
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I thought you were supposed to rely on a good mount/fit and to stare hard at the target (with the bead not even really noticed or in focus).
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Old 11-05-2018, 2:43 PM
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What are you guys shooting at with these hivizsights? I can't imagine shooting birds with these helping anyone anymore than a regular bead and yet some will even take those off.

Stationary targets I suppose.
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Old 11-05-2018, 3:38 PM
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More for when things go bump in the night.
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Old 11-05-2018, 5:14 PM
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if you are looking at that while shooting any clay games you are not gonna hit didley squat, lol I don't even see my bead when shooting.
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Old 11-05-2018, 7:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meno377 View Post
What are you guys shooting at with these hivizsights? I can't imagine shooting birds with these helping anyone anymore than a regular bead and yet some will even take those off.

Stationary targets I suppose.
^^^^ This is really all they are good for (turkey, coyote, and slug hunting). They will not help with anything else.
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Old 11-05-2018, 7:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thefeeder View Post
Depends on what you plan to use the shotgun for. Personally, I don't like them on a practical use shotgun, does more harm then good IMHO
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I instantly started shooting better by removing my sight completely. All my shotguns have bare rib.
Remember, intuitive shooting.
Any destruction in your field of view cripples you.
But it is an excellent actuary for the manufacturers. They make а lot of money selling glittering toys.

Last edited by RandyCat; 11-05-2018 at 7:28 PM..
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  #10  
Old 11-06-2018, 8:30 AM
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I guess you's guys haven't heard that the Front Sight is what you should be focusing on. This is not new information it is just not emphasized as much as it should be.

It is even more true with shotguns as you don't even need to focus on the target and it can be fuzzy because you are not aiming at a point, you are out in front of the bird (clay or meat.) You are aiming at an area, not a spot.

This is the most common error in shooting, and all of us older guys who were taught to shift focus from the target to the sights and back and forth have a hard time breaking the habit. I know I did.

Peep Sights make it easier as all you do is place the Front Sight on the target and let fly. The Front Sight automatically centers itself in the Rear Aperture, and if the Aperture is the correct size your Front Sight will be in focus, not the target.

An aperture acts just like a lens. You might remember "Pin Hole Cameras" from your Boy Scout days before the gays took it over.

Red Dots are even easier Dot, Target, Trigger.

In all these cases you focus on the aiming point on the gun not the target.

The whole purpose of the Green FO is to draw your attention to the Front Sight so you concentrate on it, not everything else in your field of view!

Gosh,,, I wonder if these Sight Manufacturers might know something that the average shooter doesn't know.

This is the hardest habit related to shooting there is to break.

Once you do, you'll shoot alot better.

Randy
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Last edited by W.R.Buchanan; 11-06-2018 at 8:36 AM..
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  #11  
Old 11-06-2018, 8:47 AM
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A shotgun is not a pistol or rifle. There is a saying, "you point a shotgun, you don't aim it." Fancy sights don't help with this.

Made myself laugh just now by imagining someone gluing a Hi-Viz sight on the fingernail of their index finger so they could point at things better.
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  #12  
Old 11-06-2018, 9:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W.R.Buchanan View Post
I guess you's guys haven't heard that the Front Sight is what you should be focusing on. This is not new information it is just not emphasized as much as it should be.

It is even more true with shotguns as you don't even need to focus on the target and it can be fuzzy because you are not aiming at a point, you are out in front of the bird (clay or meat.) You are aiming at an area, not a spot.

This is the most common error in shooting, and all of us older guys who were taught to shift focus from the target to the sights and back and forth have a hard time breaking the habit. I know I did.

Peep Sights make it easier as all you do is place the Front Sight on the target and let fly. The Front Sight automatically centers itself in the Rear Aperture, and if the Aperture is the correct size your Front Sight will be in focus, not the target.

An aperture acts just like a lens. You might remember "Pin Hole Cameras" from your Boy Scout days before the gays took it over.

Red Dots are even easier Dot, Target, Trigger.

In all these cases you focus on the aiming point on the gun not the target.

The whole purpose of the Green FO is to draw your attention to the Front Sight so you concentrate on it, not everything else in your field of view!

Gosh,,, I wonder if these Sight Manufacturers might know something that the average shooter doesn't know.

This is the hardest habit related to shooting there is to break.

Once you do, you'll shoot alot better.

Randy
Kim Rhode didn't get the memo. I don't know where you get your info, but with all due respect when it comes to birds, clays you look directly at the target and use your peripheral vision to lead with the barrel. The barrel is simply an extension of you when applied correctly.

Check this video on Todd Bender:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CWbj7_zpQM

His own words at :58 seconds is peripheral vision. No one who shoots clays has EVER said to me or any of my friends to look down the barrel when shooting any birds or clays. Please go shoot a round of skeet, trap, or sporting clays and tell us how you do when you look at the barrel. I will bet you your score will suffer compared to focusing on the birds.

When Todd Bender mentions eye shift, what does that mean to you? To me and anyone who understands, it's about your eyes shifting to the target. Otherwise why would he ever mention that if you're supposed to look down the barrel the whole time?
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  #13  
Old 11-06-2018, 9:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W.R.Buchanan View Post
I guess you's guys haven't heard that the Front Sight is what you should be focusing on. This is not new information it is just not emphasized as much as it should be.

It is even more true with shotguns as you don't even need to focus on the target and it can be fuzzy because you are not aiming at a point, you are out in front of the bird (clay or meat.) You are aiming at an area, not a spot.

This is the most common error in shooting, and all of us older guys who were taught to shift focus from the target to the sights and back and forth have a hard time breaking the habit. I know I did.

Peep Sights make it easier as all you do is place the Front Sight on the target and let fly. The Front Sight automatically centers itself in the Rear Aperture, and if the Aperture is the correct size your Front Sight will be in focus, not the target.

An aperture acts just like a lens. You might remember "Pin Hole Cameras" from your Boy Scout days before the gays took it over.

Red Dots are even easier Dot, Target, Trigger.

In all these cases you focus on the aiming point on the gun not the target.

The whole purpose of the Green FO is to draw your attention to the Front Sight so you concentrate on it, not everything else in your field of view!

Gosh,,, I wonder if these Sight Manufacturers might know something that the average shooter doesn't know.

This is the hardest habit related to shooting there is to break.

Once you do, you'll shoot alot better.

Randy
Randy. If you like, come to Oak Tree and shoot with me and some other friends. I would really like to see how you shoot looking down the barrel. I am new to the sport, but after shooting clays, (skeet and sporting clays) I have gotten much better especially with skeet. I am consistently getting 22,23,24 almost every time now when I shoot skeet. I would certainly like to see your technique and try it, but I have been told over and over that you look at the birds.

The saying we all joke about when we shoot is: See bird, shoot bird. Looking down the barrel may work great for you and I don't deny that you probably shoot very well, but this is the first time I have heard this so far.
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  #14  
Old 11-06-2018, 10:23 AM
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I tried a hi viz magnetic sight. The point of aim of the fiber optic is higher than the stock bead sight on a Rem 870, causing my shots to go low. I went back to the bead.
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Old 11-06-2018, 11:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W.R.Buchanan View Post
I guess you's guys haven't heard that the Front Sight is what you should be focusing on. This is not new information it is just not emphasized as much as it should be.

It is even more true with shotguns as you don't even need to focus on the target and it can be fuzzy because you are not aiming at a point, you are out in front of the bird (clay or meat.) You are aiming at an area, not a spot.

This is the most common error in shooting, and all of us older guys who were taught to shift focus from the target to the sights and back and forth have a hard time breaking the habit. I know I did.

Peep Sights make it easier as all you do is place the Front Sight on the target and let fly. The Front Sight automatically centers itself in the Rear Aperture, and if the Aperture is the correct size your Front Sight will be in focus, not the target.

An aperture acts just like a lens. You might remember "Pin Hole Cameras" from your Boy Scout days before the gays took it over.

Red Dots are even easier Dot, Target, Trigger.

In all these cases you focus on the aiming point on the gun not the target.

The whole purpose of the Green FO is to draw your attention to the Front Sight so you concentrate on it, not everything else in your field of view!

Gosh,,, I wonder if these Sight Manufacturers might know something that the average shooter doesn't know.

This is the hardest habit related to shooting there is to break.

Once you do, you'll shoot alot better.

Randy
Randy-----You are using SD techniques that are incompatible with hitting moving targets.

Practical shotgun shooters will do pretty good in a SD/HD course, SD shooters will not do well shooting practical targets (moving targets)

SD trains a person to shoot a shotgun like a rifle or pistol.......That is a exactly what you don't do when shoot moving targets with a shotgun.

Practical can be used successfully for Self Defense , SD can not be used for practical with much success at all.

Last edited by Thefeeder; 11-06-2018 at 11:34 AM..
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Old 11-06-2018, 11:47 AM
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Regarding birds: Just like football, when the quarterback throws the ball where the receiver WILL BE. Not where he is.
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Old 11-06-2018, 5:46 PM
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Gosh I must be looking at the birds since I can't possibly average 19-20 at Skeet with my .410 O/U? and I don't shoot that often.

I guess I'm kinda arse backwards as I look at the front bead and pick up the bird as it leaves the house and passes the bead and then swing thru it..

I don't see how you control windage errors without looking over the front sight. You've got to establish your cheek weld in order to have a consistent "Rear Sight, " on a shotgun, in fact my .410 and my 12ga both have mid rib beads so you are going for the Figure 8 sight alignment which takes care of that, and I re-establish it for every shot before I call for the target. This is how I know I'm "down"on the gun. Then the target goes by the bead and I swing thru it and break the shot when the lead is right.

My Citori XT 12 ga came with a green Hiviz .

My misses mostly come from having the gun pointed at the wrong place when I call for the target and having to make a correction that is off line with the target. On stations 3,4,5 it is usually lead errors. Station 8 high house is the hardest shot as the pattern on a .410 at 5 or so yards is about 3" and if you aren't pointed in line it is hard to get on line before the target is past you.

I shoot both eyes open on rifle, pistol and shotgun and have always done it that way.

So where am I goin' wrong here.?

Randy
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Last edited by W.R.Buchanan; 11-06-2018 at 6:04 PM..
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Old 11-06-2018, 6:01 PM
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Once this happened (front bead fell off)



This happened (won my class in the 2011 state sporting clays championship)

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Old 11-06-2018, 6:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W.R.Buchanan View Post
Gosh I must be looking at the birds since I can't possibly average 19-20 at Skeet with my .410 O/U? and I don't shoot that often.

.
No offense, but skeet targets are right in your face. I would expect anybody with a little practice to be able to shoot a 20.

How would you do on a 50 yard crosser? Or a 60 yard chondelle? Or a 70 yard teal?
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Old 11-06-2018, 6:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W.R.Buchanan View Post
Gosh I must be looking at the birds since I can't possibly average 19-20 at Skeet with my .410 O/U? and I don't shoot that often.

I guess I'm kinda arse backwards as I look at the front bead and pick up the bird as it leaves the house and passes the bead and then swing thru it..

I don't see how you control windage errors without looking over the front sight. You've got to establish your cheek weld in order to have a consistent "Rear Sight, " on a shotgun, in fact my .410 and my 12ga both have mid rib beads so you are going for the Figure 8 sight alignment which takes care of that, and I re-establish it for every shot before I call for the target. This is how I know I'm "down"on the gun. Then the target goes by the bead and I swing thru it and break the shot when the lead is right.
You mount your eye over the barrel, but once you see the bird, you are looking at the bird.



Quote:
Originally Posted by W.R.Buchanan View Post
My Citori XT 12 ga came with a green Hiviz .

My misses mostly come from having the gun pointed at the wrong place when I call for the target and having to make a correction that is off line with the target. On stations 3,4,5 it is usually lead errors. Station 8 high house is the hardest shot as the pattern on a .410 at 5 or so yards is about 3" and if you aren't pointed in line it is hard to get on line before the target is past you.

I shoot both eyes open on rifle, pistol and shotgun and have always done it that way.

So where am I goin' wrong here.?

Randy
Maybe it works for you. But that is not common to look at the bead while shooting birds. You should be looking either over the barrel or across the barrel to see your target. You can make the argument when shooting straight shots going away or coming directly towards you, but NO ONE I KNOW has ever shot clays, birds looking at the bead/down the barrel.

EDIT: A good video to watch. At 3:35 listen.....


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFUHXrMWUXo
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Last edited by meno377; 11-06-2018 at 6:51 PM..
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  #21  
Old 11-06-2018, 7:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W.R.Buchanan View Post
you are going for the Figure 8 sight alignment which takes care of that, and I re-establish it for every shot before I call for the target. This is how I know I'm "down"on the gun. Then the target goes by the bead and I swing thru it and break the shot when the lead is right.

So where am I goin' wrong here.?

Randy
You are doing[goin'] everything perfect, just a question from a n00b: while duck or rabbit hunting, you reestablish your alignment, find your snowman "8", get down on the gun. But when you call, who releases the duck/rabbit? Do you have a special man for it or you train them before going hunting?
Otherwise, in my limited experience, you would not hit a chit mi amigo.

Randy...

Last edited by RandyCat; 11-06-2018 at 7:43 PM..
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Old 11-07-2018, 10:30 AM
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Been hitting "chit" for 60 years. Don't know how I do it.?

Don't shoot ducks and I shot rabbits with a .22 rifle when I shot Rabbits, don't shoot rabbits anymore.

By the time you get to shooting Doves and Quail you already have your gun mount down pat. If you don't, you don't get many birds.

Around here I shoot doves in Avocado Orchards,,, with my .410. If the birds are there we all have our limits by 7:30 AM.

Randy
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Last edited by W.R.Buchanan; 11-07-2018 at 10:32 AM..
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Old 11-08-2018, 9:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W.R.Buchanan View Post
Been hitting "chit" for 60 years. Don't know how I do it.?

Don't shoot ducks and I shot rabbits with a .22 rifle when I shot Rabbits, don't shoot rabbits anymore.

By the time you get to shooting Doves and Quail you already have your gun mount down pat. If you don't, you don't get many birds.

Around here I shoot doves in Avocado Orchards,,, with my .410. If the birds are there we all have our limits by 7:30 AM.

Randy
You're right about gun mounting, but what doesn't make sense is when you are targeting a bird at 40 yards or more, then you keep your focus on the bead. If you focus on the bird, your peripheral vision picks up the bead or end of the barrel because it's less than 40 inches away. Why would you focus on the bead instead of the bird at 40 YARDS away?

Do you actually believe your peripheral vision is that good that you can pick up a bird out at 40 yards with a proper lead? I am convinced by your post that you are actually shifting your focus on the birds and don't even realize it if you've been shooting for as long as you say.
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  #24  
Old 11-09-2018, 9:57 AM
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Do you actually believe your peripheral vision is that good that you can pick up a bird out at 40 yards with a proper lead? I am convinced by your post that you are actually shifting your focus on the birds and don't even realize it if you've been shooting for as long as you say.
Well yes I do,,, since the bird appears to be anywhere from 2-4" on either side of the muzzle of the gun. My peripheral vision works just fine in that field of view.

I really don't see what all the hubbub is about.

In Skeet, You point the gun a few feet outside the high or low house and establish your mount which in my case also includes picking up the Front Bead, (sight picture) and as the bird flies past the muzzle you swing thru it and break the shot when the lead is right.

Shooting with both eyes open, this is not even a problem.

For Trap there are specific places on the house where you aim for each station. After you assess which of the five angles the bird is flying you crank in the lead for that angle and let fly. Remembering which lead for each bird is the tricky part

This is all explained in detail in the "Fundamentals of Trap Shooting" available for free download at the Remington Website. You guys should read it as it is the basics most people have never heard of

Gosh, they even show you how to place your feet for each station, and show you exactly where to lead the bird for each station and angle of launch. There are 25 different combinations, however many overlap from one side to the other, so really there are only about 10 leads to remember. Some are easier than others.

This ain't that hard.

What is hard about Trap is maintaining your concentration, and that's what the game is all about.

If you watch you will see way more people in a shoot off at a Skeet Shoot as opposed to a Trap Shoot. That's because Trap is a harder game, and it's not the "shooting" part that is harder, it's the "concentration" part.

Randy
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