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Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated Centerfire rifles, carbines and other gas operated rifles.

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  #41  
Old 11-15-2018, 8:32 AM
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It is hard to determine if a gas system is overgassed until you shoot it. I’m running a standard gas block on a mid length 16 inch. Usually the shorter barrels are overgassed as the longer ones are not.
Kevin
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  #42  
Old 11-16-2018, 10:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Sicarius View Post
It is hard to determine if a gas system is overgassed until you shoot it. I’m running a standard gas block on a mid length 16 inch. Usually the shorter barrels are overgassed as the longer ones are not.
Kevin
Thanks Kevin, then I'm guessing I won't be needing a Adjustable Gas Block with 18" mid-length or 20" rifle-length gas systems.

I did find this data online...

https://www.at3tactical.com/blogs/ne...rifling-part-2

Gas System Gas Port Location Pressure (PSI)
Pistol 4.7" 48,300
Carbine 7.8" 33,000
Mid-Length 9.8" 26,500
Rifle 13.2" 19,600
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  #43  
Old 11-16-2018, 3:35 PM
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I run a 18” rifle gas barrel on mine and use an adjustable gas block.

One thing I can tell you is that the window of operation/adjustment on the gas is much narrower than on a standard AR.
I think this owes to the non standard recoil system.

Bottom line is I run adjustable gas blocks on all my AR’s and would not have one without it. YMMV.

.
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It makes it bigger and longer.
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  #44  
Old 11-16-2018, 3:49 PM
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Originally Posted by DJD100 View Post
I'd like a Monte Carlo style stock for cheek-weld purposes, but Fightlite doesn't offer them anymore (just the smaller Sporter which would require an additional cheek-rest)? Can I buy a Remington 1100 Monte Carlo stock myself and use it with the Fightlite SCR lower? If it needs modding what is needed to mate it up and provide clearance for the recoil tube.
I would just run what they give you unless you want something really custom like a wood stock. I have one of the regular sporters from when they were called Ares... and a Monte Carlo that's a Fightlite. I had to have both because I am sick in the head, but I don't think it makes much of a difference enough to stress about engineering a solution.

Mine have rifle gas on a 20" 1:9 that is a Bushmaster chrome lined off of my old rifle and a mid-length on another but I could be wrong and it is carbine gas on the other one. That's how much I worry about it.
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  #45  
Old 11-17-2018, 11:56 AM
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Another thing you can do is get the barrel and gas block as a set. Typically companies will engineer their parts to work together. I went with larue barrel and their gas block to make things simple(on sale). I have a few of the their barrels and they all have been excellent. Ballistic advantage also sells as a set too if they were a consideration.
Kevin
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  #46  
Old 11-21-2018, 1:12 PM
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Hi all, I just ordered my upper from pro2a-tactical.com via a Black Friday coupon with free shipping...

https://pro2a-tactical.com/non-recip...ted-upper.html

I really couldn't source all of the parts for less than this assembled upper (it was $414 shipped).

The AR Stoner barrel might get upgraded at some point depending on how it performs, but many say they get sub-MOA at 100 yds with these which is good enough for me, so we'll see?

I upgraded to an adjustable gas block just in case, and a CA legal muzzle brake which I might or might not like at the range etc?

The specs...
  • Gibbz Arms G4 Non Reciprocating Side Charging Upper Receiver with Gen 2 Handle (Gibbz Cam Pin included).
  • AR Stoner 18 inch 223 Wylde Mid Length 1/8 Twist 416R 5R Stainless Steel Fluted Barrel.
  • Anderson Stainless Steel Mid length gas tube.
  • Guntec USA 15 inch M-LOK Slim Profile Free Float Rail.
  • Optional: Adjustable Gas Block.
  • Optional: Black Competition Muzzle Brake (for CA legality).

So, the SCR lower is complete with BHO and Ambi-Mag Release installed, 3X9X32 Scope and QD low rings are waiting, just need to consider BUIS's and sling swivels I guess?

Thanks again to all here who helped guide me on my quest LOL!

Last edited by DJD100; 11-21-2018 at 1:16 PM..
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  #47  
Old 12-05-2018, 12:16 AM
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OK, the new Gibbz side charging MC SCR is complete (specs above), and the barrel is now broken in (yeah, not sure that process helps, but it can't hurt etc?).

While breaking in the barrel (50 rds at 50yds with frequent cleanings etc), it did do 1 MOA without really trying (more interested in the break-in cleaning at the time...), so there's potential with the stainless AR Stoner barrel I think/hope?

It had trouble cycling some cheap/weak Armscor ammo that I used initially during the most frequent cleaning schedule, i.e. some rounds would not cycle the BCG far enough to hold open on the last round and FTF's (the adjustable gas block was supposed to ship wide open), but it cycled the quality Fiocchi and Hornady ammo perfectly fine that I used later in the process (including a couple of full mags).

My only issue is the SCR lower and Gibbz NR side charging upper don't mate well, and wobble enough that it can actually interfere with the BHO operation (if I shake it with the bolt held open sometimes the bolt will close), so I'm wondering if any of you with this setup found a wobble cure?

Other than that it's great, and I love it!

TIA...

Doug

Last edited by DJD100; 12-05-2018 at 10:43 PM..
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  #48  
Old 12-05-2018, 8:50 AM
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Hmmm, found this, anyone try it?



Quote:
Ok, I was asked about "bedding" the front lug to tighten upper to lower fit.

You will need some fast setting epoxy. I use JB weld.
Some release agent. For this project I use graphite.

You can put it on the front, upper take down lug or the front of the receiver between the take down "ears".

Mix your epoxy and put a small amount on the upper lug. You want to build up a very small amount from edge to edge.

Let it start setting up and then put your release agent on the exposed side...side that goes against the lower receiver.

Attach your upper to the lower and slowly close it until you feel the resistance of the epoxy.
It should feel kinda snug with the upper and lower about 1/2" from fully closed.

Take it back apart and let the epoxy fully cure...overnight.

Once fully cured you can assemble the rifle. If you did it right you should have a nice, snug upper lower fit with not wiggle.

If you put too much epoxy, you can sand it down until you get the desired amount of tension.
Or if you did not put enough, just remove the epoxy and try again.

I have been using this technique for years.
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  #49  
Old 12-05-2018, 9:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DJD100 View Post
Hmmm, found this, anyone try it?
Definitely a more permanent fix than using an ear plug or accuwedge. Have not tried it... do have a pack of accuwedges and have earplugs.

http://caligunner.com/eliminate-wigg...r15-receivers/
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  #50  
Old 12-05-2018, 1:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DJD100 View Post
My only issue is the SCR lower and Gibbz NR side charging upper don't mate well, and wobble enough that it can actually interfere with the BHO operation (if I shake it with the bolt held open sometime the bolt will close), so I'm wondering if any of you with this setup found a wobble cure?
Doug
Hmm. I have this same mating and while it's not machine tight (standard slop I would say), it is not so loose that the BHO can pop on it's own.
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  #51  
Old 12-05-2018, 3:54 PM
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Following with interest, good info. My SCR lower half is in jail. I'm embarking on a project to build a LH SCR. Assuming SCR BC is shortened version of std BC with reliefs for the strut pin. Have several Stag LH BCGs. Plan to mill one of them to physically replicate the SCR BC, add the strut pin holes, along with LH bolt.

Have a Gibbz LH SCU enroute, in case I'm able to successfully create the LH BC. If not, I'll convert one of my LH ARs to SCU. Probably go with a mid length gas rig, generally prefer Larue barrels/gas blocks.

DJD, what scope did you settle on?
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  #52  
Old 12-05-2018, 4:04 PM
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Maybe the bho spring is weak?
Kevin
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  #53  
Old 12-05-2018, 5:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DJD100 View Post
Hmmm, found this, anyone try it?
I've done similar for a few years. I'd call it "skim bedding" because you use fairly little to tighten things up rather than a full glass bedding, loading a stock up and taping things off.

I tend to do the curve on rear of the upper. I also set one of those "accuwedges" inside to keep the upper and lower tensioned away from each other, create the maximum gap. I use Brownells Acraglass or marine epoxy.

For the ultra lazy folks, aluminum tape works very well also and is reversible. Lay a few strips down on each side of the rear curve of the upper and the gap is closed.

I don't know how much of an accuracy increase this accomplishes. For me it simply makes the gun feel more solid and less like the full auto rattle trap I carried around in more difficult times.
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  #54  
Old 12-05-2018, 6:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DJD100 View Post
Hmmm, found this, anyone try it?
Yep...I wrote that. Works great.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
It makes it bigger and longer.
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  #55  
Old 12-05-2018, 8:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crufflers View Post
Definitely a more permanent fix than using an ear plug or accuwedge. Have not tried it... do have a pack of accuwedges and have earplugs.

http://caligunner.com/eliminate-wigg...r15-receivers/
I don't believe the ear plug or accuwedge will work on a SCR as it would be sitting on the trigger.

Last edited by DJD100; 12-05-2018 at 10:15 PM..
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  #56  
Old 12-05-2018, 10:11 PM
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Originally Posted by mlentzner View Post
Hmm. I have this same mating and while it's not machine tight (standard slop I would say), it is not so loose that the BHO can pop on it's own.
Hmmm, my wobble is about .011" measured from the side, and a .008" shim installed in front of the mag well will fix it (tested with feeler gauges). Shimming in the rear by the rear pin alone doesn't fix it.



Specs...

a) Pins are both .248".
b) Upper's pivot attachment lug is .497".
c) Upper's take-down attachment lug is .493" (.005" smaller?).

Don't have a ID gauge, so not sure about the the lower's holes or pivot-ears, will hit up a machine shop or gunsmith to find out going forward if need be.

First I'll likely try an oversize pin from JP Rifles...

https://www.jprifles.com/buy.php?item=JPTDP-223F

...and/or...

...some pin shims from Brownell's if I can't find anything at my local hardware store...

https://www.brownells.com/rifle-part...kgU7xVhRSyNUY0

If still no luck, I'll then consider epoxying the thin area that goes across in front of the magwell, near the pivot pin's ears depending on whether I do it to the upper or lower (total height to be .008" - .011")?



Thx...

Doug

Last edited by DJD100; 12-08-2018 at 10:39 AM..
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  #57  
Old 12-05-2018, 10:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBamBoo View Post
Yep...I wrote that. Works great.
Thanks for this, so I was thinking of epoxying here...



...on either the upper or lower as I don't know who's causing the problem yet (will test with some additional uppers etc).

Good plan?

Thx...

Doug
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  #58  
Old 12-05-2018, 10:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dfletcher View Post
I've done similar for a few years. I'd call it "skim bedding" because you use fairly little to tighten things up rather than a full glass bedding, loading a stock up and taping things off.

I tend to do the curve on rear of the upper. I also set one of those "accuwedges" inside to keep the upper and lower tensioned away from each other, create the maximum gap. I use Brownells Acraglass or marine epoxy.

For the ultra lazy folks, aluminum tape works very well also and is reversible. Lay a few strips down on each side of the rear curve of the upper and the gap is closed.

I don't know how much of an accuracy increase this accomplishes. For me it simply makes the gun feel more solid and less like the full auto rattle trap I carried around in more difficult times.
Aluminum tape, BRILLIANT idea, thanks!

Doug
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  #59  
Old 12-05-2018, 10:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Sicarius View Post
Maybe the bho spring is weak?
Kevin
Hi Kevin, don't think so as it's brand new, and it's about as strong as I can comfortably use with my left hand holding the bolt back and applying the BHO with my left thumb (I'm right handed LOL!).

Thx...

Doug
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  #60  
Old 12-05-2018, 10:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 70runner View Post
Following with interest, good info. My SCR lower half is in jail. I'm embarking on a project to build a LH SCR. Assuming SCR BC is shortened version of std BC with reliefs for the strut pin. Have several Stag LH BCGs. Plan to mill one of them to physically replicate the SCR BC, add the strut pin holes, along with LH bolt.

Have a Gibbz LH SCU enroute, in case I'm able to successfully create the LH BC. If not, I'll convert one of my LH ARs to SCU. Probably go with a mid length gas rig, generally prefer Larue barrels/gas blocks.

DJD, what scope did you settle on?
Hi, looking forward to hearing about your SCR BC fabrication, very cool!

I haven't fully decided on a final scope yet, though currently I have a cheap UTG 3X9X32 on there. It works quite well out to at least 100 yds when I had it on my .308. I will try it at 100 yds and 200 yds next time I hit the range with the SCR, when the rain stops.

It's a cheap Chinese Scope called the "BugBuster" (way less than $100 retail)...

https://leapers.com/index.php?act=pr...=SCP-M392AOLWQ

I'll note that the glass has some distortion at the edges at max magnification, so I typically stick to 7X, and that the reticle is relatively thick which will be a PITA for long range stuff, but again for 200 yds and in it survived my .308, so I'm hoping it will have a long life on my .223 SCR. It has good eye relief and is decently bright for a 32mm AO.

I am also going to get a red dot most likely, and switch them around as desired. If I start shooting longer ranges then I'll pay for some good glass.

Good luck with your project!

Doug

Last edited by DJD100; 12-05-2018 at 10:40 PM..
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  #61  
Old 12-06-2018, 7:13 AM
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Originally Posted by DJD100 View Post
Thanks for this, so I was thinking of epoxying here...



...on either the upper or lower as I don't know who's causing the problem yet (will test with some additional uppers etc).

Good plan?

Thx...

Doug

No...the epoxy goes in front, between the take down lugs. I will try and post a picture later.
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Bring hay for my horse....wine for my men....and mud for my turtle!

What do hear ???...... Nothing but the rain. Well grab your gun and bring in the cat.

"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."
- Sigmund Freud

Quote:
Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
It makes it bigger and longer.
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  #62  
Old 12-06-2018, 8:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scotty99 View Post
For some reason I was under the belief that the lack of a pistol grip made the A2 OK, but I stand corrected. Obviously I put a brake on my SCR, so maybe I was aware of this at some point in the past. Yesterday keeps getting fuzzier.
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  #63  
Old 12-06-2018, 11:00 PM
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Originally Posted by DJD100 View Post
Thanks for this, so I was thinking of epoxying here...







...on either the upper or lower as I don't know who's causing the problem yet (will test with some additional uppers etc).



Good plan?



Thx...



Doug


Buy a #7 plumbing o-ring and put it around the front lug on the upper. When you compress the o-ring to seat the takedown pin all your wobble will be gone. No epoxy needed.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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  #64  
Old 12-07-2018, 4:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dfletcher View Post
For the ultra lazy folks, aluminum tape works very well also and is reversible. Lay a few strips down on each side of the rear curve of the upper and the gap is closed.
OK, dfletcher's lazy fix has been completed, and it works great, costs nothing, and is totally reversible, again, BRILLIANT! Thanks dfletcher!

NOTE: Added some doubled aluminum tape to the Upper's take-down attachment lug above the pin hole, tighter side to side now.

I tried the O-Ring up front but it just broke mostly due to my handguard cutting it, so that was a no go.

The ear plug fix doesn't work on SCR's as it rests on the trigger, so the aluminum tape fix is in LOL (I made doubled tape shims that are about .009" thick, and tested function with snap caps).


Last edited by DJD100; 12-08-2018 at 12:57 PM..
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  #65  
Old 12-07-2018, 4:41 PM
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More good news as 100 yd groups at Metcalf averaged 1 MOA or less (bench rest and rear bag), with a few bests at 5/8 MOA (when I did my part LOL!), so the AR Stoner 18" 1:8 SS barrel seems to be working fine with Fiocchi 69 gr HPBT and Hornady 75gr HPBT Match (along with a cheap Chinese scope no less LOL)!

Last edited by DJD100; 12-07-2018 at 11:44 PM..
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