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Competition, Action Shooting And Training. Competition, Three gun, IPSC, IDPA , and Training discussion here.

View Poll Results: What are your feelings about Front Sight?
Great Training for Beginners Only. 74 8.05%
Great Training Beginner and Advanced. 620 67.46%
The Quality of Training is Going Down Hill. 20 2.18%
I paid too much for my Membership! 43 4.68%
They will go out of business this year! 22 2.39%
Don't want anything to do with them! 140 15.23%
Voters: 919. You may not vote on this poll

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  #10641  
Old 03-24-2019, 9:25 AM
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rodralig rodralig is offline
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Originally Posted by mej16489 View Post
I think most regular shooters of the test would agree that shooting a controlled pair at the 50 in 6 seconds starts getting into the lucky shot territory with a 4" barrel and its associated site radius. The 25 in 2.7 is also a bit more tough. For the rest of the test it doesn't matter too much.


I would guess that these are to the thoracic cavity? And from concealment?


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  #10642  
Old 03-24-2019, 9:53 AM
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There is zero concealment permitted for the Masters test.
And yes, thoracic cavity

I can post the test if you'd like
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  #10643  
Old 03-24-2019, 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by beanz2 View Post
I am still looking for a President membership if anyone is selling...
that's gonna be a hard one, when they started they were $795 each, I heard they are up near $2000?

I have 9, wife has 5, BUT, when we trade them in for timeshare payments (if/when they get built) we get 2 times what we paid: so they are worth $1590 each for us. My guess whoever has them are either saving them for time share final payments, or they were too expensive to sell and there are not many out there.

if you want them for unlimited private classes, then I guess its worth it to you, otherwise its not much different than other memberships?

if you need a private training CERTIFICATE (as all certificates) these are one time use, I think I have a 1+4 left, wife may have a 1+1 left. You can make an offer, but there not cheap either as there are a only a few out there?
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  #10644  
Old 03-24-2019, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Jedi54 View Post
There is zero concealment permitted for the Masters test.
And yes, thoracic cavity
Whoa!?! That makes for a SMALLER target...

I did a pair to 50-yards from draw once (more than a year back, if I would recall) - my split was about 2.5. But the target was the entire steel silhouette..!


Quote:
I can post the test if you'd like
Yes, please... Thanks!!!


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  #10645  
Old 03-24-2019, 2:02 PM
mej16489 mej16489 is offline
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Here's the test. Its important to keep in mind that the time you have to complete your shots is significantly less then it looks. The test is given on turning targets 99.999% of the time. The par-time is for when the targets are turned away from the shooter at 45 degrees.

For thoracic cavity shots, this isn't too bad because the 'hit box' is shrinking in the horizontal direction but remains the same vertically because the target rotates about the center. Don't get me wrong...its bad, just not as bad as hostage taker and odd-angles where you not shooting at the center. For those, pretty much as soon as the target begins turning you have lost your shot.

The target begins turning appx .3 to .5 seconds before the end of par-time.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf HCM.pdf (49.9 KB, 28 views)

Last edited by mej16489; 03-24-2019 at 2:05 PM..
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  #10646  
Old 03-24-2019, 7:30 PM
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Originally Posted by mej16489 View Post
Here's the test. Its important to keep in mind that the time you have to complete your shots is significantly less then it looks. The test is given on turning targets 99.999% of the time. The par-time is for when the targets are turned away from the shooter at 45 degrees.

For thoracic cavity shots, this isn't too bad because the 'hit box' is shrinking in the horizontal direction but remains the same vertically because the target rotates about the center. Don't get me wrong...its bad, just not as bad as hostage taker and odd-angles where you not shooting at the center. For those, pretty much as soon as the target begins turning you have lost your shot.

The target begins turning appx .3 to .5 seconds before the end of par-time.
Thanks!!!

Whoa!?! Those are hard-core times...

The next time I'm out at FS, need to get some targets for dry practice.


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  #10647  
Old 03-24-2019, 11:05 PM
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Originally Posted by mej16489 View Post
Here's the test. Its important to keep in mind that the time you have to complete your shots is significantly less then it looks. The test is given on turning targets 99.999% of the time. The par-time is for when the targets are turned away from the shooter at 45 degrees.

For thoracic cavity shots, this isn't too bad because the 'hit box' is shrinking in the horizontal direction but remains the same vertically because the target rotates about the center. Don't get me wrong...its bad, just not as bad as hostage taker and odd-angles where you not shooting at the center. For those, pretty much as soon as the target begins turning you have lost your shot.

The target begins turning appx .3 to .5 seconds before the end of par-time.
are those times from the holster?
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  #10648  
Old 03-24-2019, 11:14 PM
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Originally Posted by mej16489 View Post
Here's the test. Its important to keep in mind that the time you have to complete your shots is significantly less then it looks. The test is given on turning targets 99.999% of the time. The par-time is for when the targets are turned away from the shooter at 45 degrees.

For thoracic cavity shots, this isn't too bad because the 'hit box' is shrinking in the horizontal direction but remains the same vertically because the target rotates about the center. Don't get me wrong...its bad, just not as bad as hostage taker and odd-angles where you not shooting at the center. For those, pretty much as soon as the target begins turning you have lost your shot.

The target begins turning appx .3 to .5 seconds before the end of par-time.
The PDF shows the scores for DG and G. Does the HCMP class use the standard DG, G and CA?
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  #10649  
Old 03-24-2019, 11:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Mustard View Post
are those times from the holster?
They all are. What fun would it be if it wasn't?
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  #10650  
Old 03-25-2019, 6:33 AM
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Originally Posted by DRM6000 View Post
The PDF shows the scores for DG and G. Does the HCMP class use the standard DG, G and CA?
Nope Handgun Combat Master is pass or fail
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  #10651  
Old 03-25-2019, 6:42 AM
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Nope Handgun Combat Master is pass or fail
Mainly fail! Bwhahahaha
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  #10652  
Old 03-25-2019, 7:27 AM
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I know I've added my fair share of fail scores.
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  #10653  
Old 03-25-2019, 7:31 AM
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Originally Posted by LCU1670 View Post
that's gonna be a hard one, when they started they were $795 each, I heard they are up near $2000?

I have 9, wife has 5, BUT, when we trade them in for timeshare payments (if/when they get built) we get 2 times what we paid: so they are worth $1590 each for us. My guess whoever has them are either saving them for time share final payments, or they were too expensive to sell and there are not many out there.

if you want them for unlimited private classes, then I guess its worth it to you, otherwise its not much different than other memberships?

if you need a private training CERTIFICATE (as all certificates) these are one time use, I think I have a 1+4 left, wife may have a 1+1 left. You can make an offer, but there not cheap either as there are a only a few out there?
When I first bought my President, it was a $2,000.00 upgrade when it first came out. It allowed me to bring up to four (or maybe five) others with me. I recall later that they started to offer a President for a specific price and then you decided how many extra people you wanted to bring for additional costs per person. If I may ask, the $795.00 price that you quoted, was that solely for yourself or did that price include other participants joining with you? Just curious to know.
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  #10654  
Old 03-25-2019, 7:33 AM
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I know I've added my fair share of fail scores.
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  #10655  
Old 03-25-2019, 8:26 AM
mej16489 mej16489 is offline
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Originally Posted by DRM6000 View Post
The PDF shows the scores for DG and G. Does the HCMP class use the standard DG, G and CA?
That's mostly a remnant of the excel sheet I've compiled over time for the tests. Ultimately its all about getting under that -40

I'm not sure one way or the other if the certificates get stickers or not...in the dozen or so times I've taken the 'course' I've never stayed for the certificates. However, when I look in my course history online they nearly all have a G. I don't really know the rhyme or reason why when they do or don't. I keep a log of all my training shoots as well as my official tests, I've always shot -120 or better on multiple iterations of the test.
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  #10656  
Old 03-25-2019, 8:33 AM
mej16489 mej16489 is offline
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Originally Posted by Mustard View Post
are those times from the holster?
Yes, from the holster.

I suppose its also important to point out the scoring system for the 10 hostage-taker shots. If you hit the hostage in any fashion that's -10. If you hit the hostage and manage a peripheral hit on the hostage-taker its -8 or -9 depending on major/minor caliber. Hostage and in the head-box is -5

So, to put that in perspective a little bit, on just those 10 shots its possible to shoot -100. If you simply leave your gun in the holster its only -50.

Last edited by mej16489; 03-25-2019 at 8:40 AM..
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  #10657  
Old 03-25-2019, 9:03 AM
LV_G22 LV_G22 is offline
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Originally Posted by Jedi54 View Post
I know I've added my fair share of fail scores.
There is no such thing as "failing" the HCM test.

Those were just "training" tests for you
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