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  #161  
Old 04-24-2019, 8:30 PM
CharlesV CharlesV is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.RoDiN View Post
Does anyone know how to find out who the CLEO is in your area? I don't know if the copy goes to LAPD or LASD...
If you are talking about the C&R, ATF says it goes to your Chief of Police. Include a nice note.
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  #162  
Old 04-24-2019, 8:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlesV View Post
If you are talking about the C&R, ATF says it goes to your Chief of Police. Include a nice note.
Not according to this:

Ref: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sher..._United_States

In California, a sheriff is an elected official and the chief law enforcement officer in any given county.

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  #163  
Old 04-24-2019, 8:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EM2 View Post
Doesn't really matter what they think.
Didn’t say it had anything to do about “thinking”. LAPD controls LE within city limits.

They dump arrests at the County jail.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EM2 View Post
Sheriff is elected by the people.
Chief of Police is appointed by cronies.
The civilian police commission sorted through 31 applicants and submitted 3 to the mayor. Hardly a process for “cronies”.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EM2 View Post
Hmm, looks like LASD is larger than LAPD, by quite a bit.
That’s because they provide consolidated administrative services for local, unincorporated communities. LA City is incorporated. From your Wiki link:
Quote:
The department's three main responsibilities entail providing patrol services for 153 unincorporated communities of Los Angeles County, California and 42 cities, providing courthouse security for the Superior Court of Los Angeles County, and the housing and transportation of inmates within the county jail system. In addition, the department contracts with the Los Angeles Metropolitan Transportation Authority and Metrolink, provides law enforcement services to ten community colleges, patrols over 177 county parks, golf courses, special event venues, two major lakes, 16 hospitals, and over 300 county facilities; and provides services, such as crime laboratories, homicide investigations, and academy training, to smaller law enforcement agencies within the county.
If the individual lives in LA. The CLEO is LAPD.

In the broader sense, no one cares.

Send it to either.
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  #164  
Old 04-24-2019, 9:02 PM
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I agree with DVRJON.

When ATF told me on the phone to send to the COP, they may not have been considering that some people live in rural juristictions only served by sheriffs. My city, Corona, is served by both and I have always sent to the COP. If I errored, they would likely pass it on but having sent it to him i seriously doubt anyone can say i didnt comply. If seriously in doubt and want to cover bases, send to both. Myself, i'll continue with the COP because I never met any LEO in 60 years in Corona that said the sheriff is higher, dont listen to that dumb chief. The COP is considered the CLEO in any city i've ever lived, whether they are technically or not.
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  #165  
Old 04-24-2019, 9:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlesV View Post
If you are talking about the C&R, ATF says it goes to your Chief of Police. Include a nice note.
Ummm, no.

ATF Form 7/7CR.
Page 2, item 18:
Quote:
18. Name of Chief Law Enforcement Officer (CLEO). Please print the name of the CLEO application to whom a copy of this application was provided. See instruction #4 and definition #1.
Instructions
Quote:
4. Chief Law Enforcement Officer (CLEO) - Applicants must submit a copy of the completed application to the Chief Law Enforcement Officer (CLEO) of the locality in which the premises sought to be licensed is located (see definition #1). Part A, item #20d requires certification that a completed copy of the application has been sent.
Definitions
Quote:
1. Chief Law Enforcement Officer - The Chief of Police, Sheriff, or an equivalent designee of such individual, of the locality in which the premises sought to be licensed, is located.
It’s a NATIONAL program. Of the 50 U.S. states, 48 have sheriffs. The two exceptions are Alaska, which does not have counties, and Connecticut, which has no county governments. The federal district and the 5 populated territories also do not have county governments. So, how does a hard and fast “county sheriff is the CLEO” view work NATIONALLY?
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Last edited by Dvrjon; 04-24-2019 at 9:14 PM..
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  #166  
Old 04-24-2019, 9:23 PM
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Soooo I’m back to square one... I’m in porter ranch / northridge if that helps?
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  #167  
Old 04-24-2019, 9:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Mr.RoDiN View Post
Soooo I’m back to square one... I’m in porter ranch / northridge if that helps?
You're in LA County. Send it to the sheriff.

https://www.calsheriffs.org/sheriffs-offices.html

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  #168  
Old 04-24-2019, 10:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Jeepix View Post
You're in LA County. Send it to the sheriff.

https://www.calsheriffs.org/sheriffs-offices.html

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He is in the City of Los Angeles, which would mean LAPD Chief.
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  #169  
Old 04-24-2019, 10:43 PM
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Why is this being argued? I said, if in doubt, send to both if you want.

As the ATF instructs above, it can be either COP or sheriff or even someone else so whats the problem?

Myself, i'll continue to send to COP and have no problem about it. They have never sent it back as wrongly addressed or something.
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  #170  
Old 04-25-2019, 4:17 AM
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Originally Posted by CharlesV View Post
Why is this being argued? I said, if in doubt, send to both if you want.

As the ATF instructs above, it can be either COP or sheriff or even someone else so whats the problem?

Myself, i'll continue to send to COP and have no problem about it. They have never sent it back as wrongly addressed or something.
Yep. Either is OK. I was just giving him a definite answer that was also correct so he can move on. When he mails a letter he writes Northridge, CA <zip code>, hence LA County, so the Sheriff would be fine.

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  #171  
Old 04-25-2019, 11:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeepix View Post
You're in LA County. Send it to the sheriff.

https://www.calsheriffs.org/sheriffs-offices.html

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Quote:
Originally Posted by kemasa View Post
He is in the City of Los Angeles, which would mean LAPD Chief.
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Originally Posted by EM2
Put you link where your opinion is.
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  #172  
Old 04-25-2019, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Mr.RoDiN View Post
Does anyone know how to find out who the CLEO is in your area? I don't know if the copy goes to LAPD or LASD...
It goes to the head of whatever agency would respond to calls at your residence.
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  #173  
Old 04-27-2019, 9:28 PM
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Thanks all for the input! I keep forgetting I don't get alerts to responses. I don't much like Tapatalk. I have to remember to check these.

Sent in everything. I guess now I wait.
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  #174  
Old 04-28-2019, 6:28 PM
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I read this thread so want confirmation on the below question. I did search and this was the only thread that search did not lead me to discussion about how C&R license can buy-not what citizen can sell)

QUESTION:
I as an individual can sell a C&R rifle and ammunition in a face to face transaction to a C&R license holder within the state of California without going through a regular FFL.

Scenario-I have a Mosin Rifle and tin of 440 rounds of ammo. Transaction is cash and carry for myself and the C&R license holder.

I have been told this by a C&R license holder who wished to make just such a purchase from me but only if it was direct without all the added fees, waiting,, computer and paper work. I do not wish to break a law. I am not worried about my C&R in CFARS or whatever it is called as they were purchased before DROS was required.
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  #175  
Old 04-28-2019, 6:44 PM
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Yes, if the C&R holder (buyer) also has a CoE.
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  #176  
Old 04-28-2019, 7:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xerxes View Post
I read this thread so want confirmation on the below question. I did search and this was the only thread that search did not lead me to discussion about how C&R license can buy-not what citizen can sell)

QUESTION:
I as an individual can sell a C&R rifle and ammunition in a face to face transaction to a C&R license holder within the state of California without going through a regular FFL.

Scenario-I have a Mosin Rifle and tin of 440 rounds of ammo. Transaction is cash and carry for myself and the C&R license holder.

I have been told this by a C&R license holder who wished to make just such a purchase from me but only if it was direct without all the added fees, waiting,, computer and paper work. I do not wish to break a law. I am not worried about my C&R in CFARS or whatever it is called as they were purchased before DROS was required.
If the BUYER has valid 03FFL+CoE, then regardless if the SELLER has same, transaction may be conducted cash and carry.
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  #177  
Old 05-17-2019, 5:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sfe187 View Post
Couple of minor questions. I have received my FFL03

1. Wether in-state or out of state (Store front), when conducting a transaction (C&R or 1 in 30 exemption multi modern handguns), do I need to provide the original 03 license so they can see and make copy (and I sign) or is a simple copy will do or is it depend on each store's policy? Does some require to see the original 03 license?
You just provide a copy, sign it and give it to them.

Quote:
2. The FFL Information Card - it has a "cut here" on dotted line, (a) what does that card do or good for?? (b) Can you laminate that card?
It is to impress people, nothing more, or perhaps it is just to make people wonder what it is good for.

Quote:
3. When making copies of the original 03 i.e for question #1, do you have to make copies of the entire sheet (including Info Card) or just the top License portion is fine.
Just the top portion.
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  #178  
Old 05-17-2019, 6:02 PM
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Great thanks boss^^
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  #179  
Old 06-09-2019, 3:55 PM
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so lets say i want to buy an sks online from out of state do i need to ship it to an 01ffl and dros etc or can i just have the rifle shipped to my door? i currently have an 03ffl and am waiting from my coe to be renewed.
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  #180  
Old 06-09-2019, 3:59 PM
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Originally Posted by generalpetres View Post
so lets say i want to buy an sks online from out of state do i need to ship it to an 01ffl and dros etc or can i just have the rifle shipped to my door? i currently have an 03ffl and am waiting from my coe to be renewed.
Must go to FFL01.

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  #181  
Old 06-09-2019, 4:37 PM
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Originally Posted by generalpetres View Post
so lets say i want to buy an sks online from out of state do i need to ship it to an 01ffl and dros etc or can i just have the rifle shipped to my door? i currently have an 03ffl and am waiting from my coe to be renewed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hinnerk View Post
Must go to FFL01.

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But no 10 wait.

Quote:
Originally Posted by semilin View Post

4. Purchase C&R long gun or C&R handgun from in-state 01-FFL
* DROS, with no 10 days waiting period
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Originally Posted by EM2
Put you link where your opinion is.
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  #182  
Old 06-09-2019, 5:32 PM
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so basically its California just trying to get more money from us.
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  #183  
Old 06-09-2019, 5:33 PM
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Some liberals are evil people out to control others. (Hillary, Pelosi, et.al.)
Many liberals are lemmings and will follow whomever espouses what they 'feel'.
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  #184  
Old 06-09-2019, 5:39 PM
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Originally Posted by generalpetres View Post
so basically its California just trying to get more money from us.
Yes, and to the extent that the law was written with FFL01 input, for them to get more of your money, as well. The bill was originally written to allow direct shipment to your door. It makes no sense for a third party to get involved but their lobby has more clout, apparently.

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  #185  
Old 06-09-2019, 6:04 PM
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First off, it has to go through a dealer, not a 01FFL. A dealer can have one of several license types, such as 01, 02, 07 or perhaps a less common type.

The dealers didn't push to force such transfers to go through them. The state wants to make it as difficult as possible, as well as ensuring that they get the firearm information. Basically registration, although registration is not legal.
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  #186  
Old 06-09-2019, 6:29 PM
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And the tax.
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  #187  
Old 06-09-2019, 9:30 PM
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Originally Posted by vino68 View Post
And the tax.
There is no change with regards to sales tax. If it is documented that it is an occasional sale, from a private party and not from a business, it isn't subject to sales tax.
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  #188  
Old 06-13-2019, 7:57 AM
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Anyone know why Classic Firearms won't ship Handgun on FFL03?
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  #189  
Old 06-13-2019, 9:04 AM
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Anyone know why Classic Firearms won't ship Handgun on FFL03?
All C&R firearms shipped to CA has to go to a dealer. If they don't ship handguns to other states, only they could say.
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  #190  
Old 06-13-2019, 9:15 AM
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Got it - thanks.

Looks like relevant sections ::

27585.

(a) Commencing January 1, 2015, a resident of this state shall not import into
this state, bring into this state, or transport into this state, any firearm
that he or she purchased or otherwise obtained on or after January 1, 2015,
from outside of this state unless he or she first has that firearm delivered to
a dealer in this state for delivery to that resident pursuant to the procedures
set forth in Section 27540 and Article 1 (commencing with Section 26700) and
Article 2 (commencing with Section 26800) of Chapter 2.

(b) Subdivision (a) does not apply to or affect any of the following:

(1) A licensed collector who is subject to and complies with Section 27565.

and

27565.

(a) This section applies in the following circumstances:

(1) A person is licensed as a collector pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with
Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued
pursuant thereto.

(2) The licensed premises of that person are within this state.

(3) The licensed collector acquires, outside of this state, a handgun, and
commencing January 1, 2014, any firearm.

(4) The licensed collector takes actual possession of that firearm outside of
this state pursuant to the provisions of subsection (j) of Section 923 of Title
18 of the United States Code, as amended by Public Law 104-208, and transports
the firearm into this state.
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  #191  
Old 06-20-2019, 10:07 AM
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This is an email I just got from target sports.


Target Sports USA is making every effort to support our loyal customers in CA and their purchases of ammunition.
Based on the current CA DOJ proposed regulations in Prop 63, we have decided to do the following:
IF YOU ARE A CURRENT CUSTOMER WHO IS:
LAW ENFORCEMENT / PEACE OFFICER
A TYPE 03 (CURIOS & RELICS) FFL HOLDER
BUY NOW! We will be shipping orders to CA until 4:00pm EST this Friday, June 21st. www.TargetSportsUSA.com
As of 4:00pm EST this Friday, June 21st, we will be forced to remove the exempt status on your account. Unfortunately, Prop 63 states you will no longer be eligible for online purchases of ammo delivered directly to you, solely face-to-face transfers will be allowed.
The next time you log in, please select an FFL Dealer from our available list, or add your own to continue purchasing ammo from Target Sports USA!
**Please work with your local dealer to confirm they will still be accepting ammunition orders for face-to-face transfers after July 1st as well as the transfer fee. We will do our best to keep our FFL list as up to date as possible**
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  #192  
Old 06-20-2019, 10:16 AM
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TargetsportsUSA is out. Say it ain’t so !!!!
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  #193  
Old 06-20-2019, 10:28 AM
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I just saw my email too. So am I missing something in that the 03/coe is no longer exempt for ammo?

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  #194  
Old 06-20-2019, 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Dooder View Post
I just saw my email too. So am I missing something in that the 03/coe is no longer exempt for ammo?

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As far as Targetsportsusa feels FFL03/COE will no longer be exempt.

https://mailchi.mp/targetsportsusa/w...ports-usa-3805
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  #195  
Old 06-20-2019, 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Dooder View Post
I just saw my email too. So am I missing something in that the 03/coe is no longer exempt for ammo?

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03FFL + CoE is exempt. Either TargetSportsUSA is just mistaken, don't want to hassle with 03FFLs anymore, or riding the FUD train to boost short-term sales.
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  #196  
Old 06-20-2019, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sgsmam View Post
03FFL + CoE is exempt. Either TargetSportsUSA is just mistaken, don't want to hassle with 03FFLs anymore, or riding the FUD train to boost short-term sales.


I sent a email to TargetsportsUSA advising them of their mistake.

If anyone wishes to do the same their email is — ffl@targetsportsusa.com
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  #197  
Old 06-20-2019, 11:24 AM
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Be sure to point them to the relevant PC Section:.

30312 (a) (1) Commencing January 1, 2018, the sale of ammunition by any party shall be conducted by or processed through a licensed ammunition vendor.

(2) When neither party to an ammunition sale is a licensed ammunition vendor, the seller shall deliver the ammunition to a vendor to process the transaction. The ammunition vendor shall promptly and properly deliver the ammunition to the purchaser, if the sale is not prohibited, as if the ammunition were the vendor’s own merchandise. If the ammunition vendor cannot legally deliver the ammunition to the purchaser, the vendor shall forthwith return the ammunition to the seller. The ammunition vendor may charge the purchaser an administrative fee to process the transaction, in an amount to be set by the Department of Justice, in addition to any applicable fees that may be charged pursuant to the provisions of this title.

(b) Commencing January 1, 2018, the sale, delivery, or transfer of ownership of ammunition by any party may only occur in a face-to-face transaction with the seller, deliverer, or transferor, provided, however, that ammunition may be purchased or acquired over the Internet or through other means of remote ordering if a licensed ammunition vendor initially receives the ammunition and processes the transaction in compliance with this section and Article 3 (commencing with Section 30342) of Chapter 1 of Division 10 of Title 4 of this part.

(c) Subdivisions (a) and (b) shall not apply to the sale, delivery, or transfer of ammunition to any of the following:

[...]

(6) A person who is licensed as a collector of firearms pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto, whose licensed premises are within this state, and who has a current certificate of eligibility issued by the Department of Justice pursuant to Section 26710.

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  #198  
Old 06-20-2019, 11:49 AM
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Gavelek Gavelek is offline
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Must go to FFL01.

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  #199  
Old 06-20-2019, 11:55 AM
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awiner awiner is offline
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Posted on their Facebook page.

Let’s hope they can make sense of California’s ridiculously confusing laws.

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  #200  
Old 06-20-2019, 12:02 PM
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When you receive your COE you are good to go
If you are referring to having a C&R long gun shipped directly to you from out of state, no, that is not the way the law is currently written.

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