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  #161  
Old 12-14-2018, 7:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Mizouse View Post
I just got the incomplete emails today for the 2 completed 80% lowers i submitted for volreg on 6/29.



They are just bare lower receivers so I guess ill put put down "The firearm has NOT been fully assembled. It is just a bare receiver."

See my response to that message a couple posts up.
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  #162  
Old 12-14-2018, 11:38 AM
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See my response to that message a couple posts up.
I should’ve done that. LOL
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  #163  
Old 12-14-2018, 4:51 PM
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Default Application Kicked Back Again

I sent in my initial application for a 'receiver only' back on 6/28. Got the first incomplete email on 12/5 asking me to 'verify receiver only', no pictures were requested. I re-submitted the application as 'receiver only' on 12/5. Just received another incomplete email, this time they are asking for pictures of the complete rifle. It's a 'receiver only' application!! And, pictures are not required for self-built firearms if they already were engraved prior to 7/1/18! What gives? Do I just re-submit again and basically say "the firearm is a self-built receiver that is not assembled and current penal code does not require that pictures be submitted for this application". What happens if they deny it based on no pictures this time around? This is getting pretty ridiculous. Are there any flat out denials at this point? And/or lawsuits related to such?
Thanks boys,
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  #164  
Old 12-18-2018, 2:27 PM
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Submitted on 6/29 and still waiting for initial response. Anyone else?
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  #165  
Old 12-18-2018, 9:38 PM
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Originally Posted by numpty View Post
Submitted on 6/29 and still waiting for initial response. Anyone else?


Me too. I submitted an AR10 and an AR15 pistol. No news yet.
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  #166  
Old 12-19-2018, 8:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Mizouse View Post
I just got the incomplete emails today for the 2 completed 80% lowers i submitted for volreg on 6/29.



They are just bare lower receivers so I guess ill put put down "The firearm has NOT been fully assembled. It is just a bare receiver."

Just received this response

Quote:
The California Department of Justice has received your electronic application and will begin processing your submission. You will be notified of the results via U.S. Mail.
Should be getting my letter soon right?
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  #167  
Old 12-19-2018, 10:03 AM
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Got the dreaded "we need pictures" email for a couple of AR pistols. Can I simply update the form or email back with "volreg pistols don't need pictures" ? They are compliant, but I don't want to submit anything I don't need to.
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  #168  
Old 12-19-2018, 2:05 PM
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Originally Posted by numpty View Post
Submitted on 6/29 and still waiting for initial response. Anyone else?
Quote:
Originally Posted by phdo View Post
Me too. I submitted an AR10 and an AR15 pistol. No news yet.
Submitted mine on 6/29 and received incomplete notices on 12/13. So you guys should receive something soon
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  #169  
Old 12-19-2018, 2:15 PM
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Default Significance of "Receiver Only" registration?

Back before the deadline, I tried to register a self-built 80% AR receiver engraved with my own S/N. I received an email saying it:
Quote:
“…cannot be processed for the following reason(s):
Verify your answer to the question "receiver only?" If the firearm is fully assembled, please provide the caliber and barrel length of your firearm and clear full-length pictures of both sides of the firearm, one close up of the serial number, magazine release, make and model. Upload these pictures to this transaction and resubmit for processing.”
I registered as a receiver only (caliber= MULTI) because I had the completed receiver but but not a complete firearm, AND because I wanted to retain the flexibility to assemble it along with various uppers in various calibers in the future in featureless configurations. I have so many questions about how to proceed.

1. Am I correct in my interpretation that the pics are required only if I change my mind and register as a complete firearm, otherwise they are not requiring pics?

2. If I am verifying that I am registering the receiver only, how am supposed to verify that, by replying to the email from bofcris@doj.ca.gov and saying “yes it is receiver only” or do I need to open my registration transaction where the admin has added the message referenced above and write a comment in the comments section saying “yes it is receiver only”? Is there some other method?

3. Please help me understand the significance of registering as “receiver only”. Does this limit my future flexibility to assemble it into .556, .224 Valkyrie, 300 Blackout, .458 SOCOM, etc.? If I assemble into one or more of these, does that somehow invalidate my exiting registration? Do I need to inform them or update my registration if my assembled configuration changes as long as it stays featureless? I’m having a hard time understanding why so many people are receiving letters asking for confirmation of “receiver only”. If feels like they are trying to put me into some sort of legal box. The fact that many others seem to have responded that it is indeed receiver only and had never been assembled into a complete firearm also has me concerned. What if it had? Would that mean it could not be disassembled and reassembled as s different configuration? If you manufactured the receiver yourself, why would you NOT register as receiver only?
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  #170  
Old 12-19-2018, 2:38 PM
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I send initial request for VolReg two 80%s on 6/29/18 and yesterday got email “incomplete.....”. Will try to upload pics tonight.
My co-worker got the same two weeks ago, upload pics and less than a week got his approval letter.
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  #171  
Old 12-19-2018, 6:07 PM
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Originally Posted by MajorCaliber View Post
Please help me understand the significance of registering as “receiver only”. Does this limit my future flexibility to assemble it into .556, .224 Valkyrie, 300 Blackout, .458 SOCOM, etc.? If I assemble into one or more of these, does that somehow invalidate my exiting registration? Do I need to inform them or update my registration if my assembled configuration changes as long as it stays featureless? I’m having a hard time understanding why so many people are receiving letters asking for confirmation of “receiver only”. If feels like they are trying to put me into some sort of legal box. The fact that many others seem to have responded that it is indeed receiver only and had never been assembled into a complete firearm also has me concerned. What if it had? Would that mean it could not be disassembled and reassembled as s different configuration? If you manufactured the receiver yourself, why would you NOT register as receiver only?
Volreging as receiver only is the same as drosing as a receiver only. As long as you don’t build an assault weapon it doesn’t matter what it eventually becomes or ever was. It only matters what it is at the time you volreg/DROS it.

The rejection notices are trying to trap people into submitting evidence that they have an assault weapon, plain and simple. If you get a “confirm your answer” rejection then do just that. As I posted above I just wrote, “the form was correct as submitted” and they approved it.
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  #172  
Old 12-19-2018, 6:53 PM
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Resubmitted with new comment explaining that it is not an AW and should not require pictures.. Let's see what happens...
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  #173  
Old 12-19-2018, 8:39 PM
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Originally Posted by champu View Post
Volreging as receiver only is the same as drosing as a receiver only. As long as you don’t build an assault weapon it doesn’t matter what it eventually becomes or ever was. It only matters what it is at the time you volreg/DROS it.
That is useful information, Thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by champu View Post
The rejection notices are trying to trap people into submitting evidence that they have an assault weapon, plain and simple. If you get a “confirm your answer” rejection then do just that. As I posted above I just wrote, “the form was correct as submitted” and they approved it.
So that's why it feels like a trap. Admiral Akbar was right all along. You advice here seems like the sound path to travel.
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  #174  
Old 12-20-2018, 9:29 PM
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So what's everyone in "purgatory" going to do after 12/31?
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  #175  
Old 12-20-2018, 10:23 PM
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So what's everyone in "purgatory" going to do after 12/31?
maybe we should prepare for a big calguns boating trip...
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  #176  
Old 12-21-2018, 9:22 AM
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Let's be clear. DO NOT SEND PICTURES. PERIOD! They have zero legal justification for asking for pictures. If you did assembled a complete firearm then submit with the caliber and barrel length info ONLY. If you wish to retain the flexibility for multiple caliber, don't assemble your firearm and emphatically state that you have a bare receiver only. I had to resubmit my volreg form 3 times on my bare receivers before they finally gave me my approval. Not once did I send them any pictures. Even if it's a picture of a bare receiver, they have no grounds for that request.
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  #177  
Old 12-21-2018, 7:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Mute View Post
Let's be clear. DO NOT SEND PICTURES. PERIOD! They have zero legal justification for asking for pictures. If you did assembled a complete firearm then submit with the caliber and barrel length info ONLY. If you wish to retain the flexibility for multiple caliber, don't assemble your firearm and emphatically state that you have a bare receiver only. I had to resubmit my volreg form 3 times on my bare receivers before they finally gave me my approval. Not once did I send them any pictures. Even if it's a picture of a bare receiver, they have no grounds for that request.
Really? What about pistol?
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  #178  
Old 12-22-2018, 3:00 PM
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Really? What about pistol?
They have no legal standing to ask for photos even on the pistols. I got approval on an 80% Polymer80 Glock pistol that was submitted without photos. I filled in all the requested information, including caliber and barrel length since I had no intentions of swapping calibers.
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  #179  
Old 12-22-2018, 6:19 PM
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Really? What about pistol?
I agree with the posting you responded to. I volreg'd 3 bare receivers only and was profuse on the form to state in no less than three places that is was a "FRAME ONLY". I put "N/A" for caliber and barrel length. No pix necessary.

A pistol is no different if you complete an 80% frame. IF you want the flexibility of calibers, this is the only way and that is EXACTLY why I did it that way with my AR receivers. Not to mention, I can build them any way that is legal at the time...I am not locked into a configuration because I registered it that way, sent pix, using a broken system, to people who want nothing more than to take my guns anyway.

There is no difference for pistol. Let's say you want to do a Glock or a Sig build but want the 9/40 conversion possibilities without the headaches of registering each calibre. The easiest way is to register the bare frame.

That said, to answer the question about pix for a pistol, you DO NOT need pix for a volreg'd bare receiver.

By the way...DO NOT USE THE CFARS ELECTRONIC SYSTEM. I used the old snail mail with the volreg form and the $19 check. I got my DOJ letters back in a few weeks with ZERO hiccups or difficulty.
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  #180  
Old 12-22-2018, 6:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MajorCaliber View Post
Back before the deadline, I tried to register a self-built 80% AR receiver engraved with my own S/N. I received an email saying it:


I registered as a receiver only (caliber= MULTI) because I had the completed receiver but but not a complete firearm, AND because I wanted to retain the flexibility to assemble it along with various uppers in various calibers in the future in featureless configurations. I have so many questions about how to proceed.

1. Am I correct in my interpretation that the pics are required only if I change my mind and register as a complete firearm, otherwise they are not requiring pics?

2. If I am verifying that I am registering the receiver only, how am supposed to verify that, by replying to the email from bofcris@doj.ca.gov and saying “yes it is receiver only” or do I need to open my registration transaction where the admin has added the message referenced above and write a comment in the comments section saying “yes it is receiver only”? Is there some other method?

3. Please help me understand the significance of registering as “receiver only”. Does this limit my future flexibility to assemble it into .556, .224 Valkyrie, 300 Blackout, .458 SOCOM, etc.? If I assemble into one or more of these, does that somehow invalidate my exiting registration? Do I need to inform them or update my registration if my assembled configuration changes as long as it stays featureless? I’m having a hard time understanding why so many people are receiving letters asking for confirmation of “receiver only”. If feels like they are trying to put me into some sort of legal box. The fact that many others seem to have responded that it is indeed receiver only and had never been assembled into a complete firearm also has me concerned. What if it had? Would that mean it could not be disassembled and reassembled as s different configuration? If you manufactured the receiver yourself, why would you NOT register as receiver only?
This is EXACTLY why I used the old snail mail system about 4 weeks before 01JUL2018, the form and a $19 check. I got NONE of what you got. To answer a question directly, you are NOT limited to what you want on the top. The fact that it is "multi" means you can have any caliber on it. Featureless does not require registration as an AW nor does it require pix; a bare frame is presumed to be featureless until you get stopped by the cops. If it is featureless, then you're in the clear, regardless of caliber. The ONLY exception, which I think is a muddy water problem, is the single shot .50 BMG upper you can put on it. There was some hubbub about it, but anything less (.223, 5.56, .458 SOCOM, 7.62 x XXX, etc) is fine. IF, however, at the time you're stopped by the cops, you have it in an AW configuration, you are hosed and hosed good.

Others here are correct...as long as your eventual build is LEGAL for the existing law at the time, you are good with a receiver only. If today, bullet buttons are good and tomorrow they are not, then my "receiver only" just needs me to change out the bullet button to whatever is good and it's still legal.

For realism, right now, if I built the receiver into a rifle, it MUST be featureless. However, let's say the unicorns come home and the featureless thing is changed again. A rifle registered as featureless can NOT be changed, but a bare receiver needs only be changed to meet the new legal definition.
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  #181  
Old 12-22-2018, 7:19 PM
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I just got my approval letters for my 4 P80 pistols today. Odd thing here is that I got all the kick backs on Nov 29. I updated my AR pistol submission a couple days later and got a notification that the submissions were accepted on Dec 7. I submitted the P80 updates on Dec 14 and got the email that they were all accepted that same day.

I'm still waiting for my AR pistol approvals which have been accepted. Anybody in the same boat getting AR pistol approvals taking longer than P80?
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  #182  
Old 12-22-2018, 10:00 PM
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What were the exact words of the notice?

Did it say "submissions accepted" or "submissions confirmed, will begin processing"?


Quote:
Originally Posted by GunnEnvy View Post
I just got my approval letters for my 4 P80 pistols today. Odd thing here is that I got all the kick backs on Nov 29. I updated my AR pistol submission a couple days later and got a notification that the submissions were accepted on Dec 7. I submitted the P80 updates on Dec 14 and got the email that they were all accepted that same day.

I'm still waiting for my AR pistol approvals which have been accepted. Anybody in the same boat getting AR pistol approvals taking longer than P80?
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  #183  
Old 12-22-2018, 10:06 PM
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Originally Posted by GunnEnvy View Post
I just got my approval letters for my 4 P80 pistols today. Odd thing here is that I got all the kick backs on Nov 29. I updated my AR pistol submission a couple days later and got a notification that the submissions were accepted on Dec 7. I submitted the P80 updates on Dec 14 and got the email that they were all accepted that same day.

I'm still waiting for my AR pistol approvals which have been accepted. Anybody in the same boat getting AR pistol approvals taking longer than P80?
Yes, exact same thing happened to me. P80 approved quickly and also bare AR receivers, but not AR pattern pistols. I submitted photos showing Hogue Freedom Fighter mag locks in place.

W...T....F

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Originally Posted by 3rd_gear View Post
What were the exact words of the notice?

Did it say "submissions accepted" or "submissions confirmed, will begin processing"?
The emails I received after submitting corrections and/or photos said "The California Department of Justice has received your electronic application and will begin processing your submission. You will be notified of the results via U.S. Mail. "

The letters I received in the mail said "Report of Firearm Ownership Approval". I am now only waiting on two more of these for two AR pistols.
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  #184  
Old 12-22-2018, 10:10 PM
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Originally Posted by SkyHawk View Post
Yes, exact same thing happened to me. P80 approved quickly and also bare AR receivers, but not AR pattern pistols. I submitted photos showing Hogue Freedom Fighter mag locks in place.

W...T....F
Ok I guess we're in the same boat. Good news is at least people are getting their AR pistols approved, so hopefully those are next soon.
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  #185  
Old 12-22-2018, 10:16 PM
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  #186  
Old 12-24-2018, 7:43 PM
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So are you saying that my Kimber 1911 .45ACP needs to be registered as a .22LR before I can put on my .22LR slide because it was DROS'd as a .45ACP?



Quote:
Originally Posted by Supersapper View Post

There is no difference for pistol. Let's say you want to do a Glock or a Sig build but want the 9/40 conversion possibilities without the headaches of registering each calibre. The easiest way is to register the bare frame.
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  #187  
Old 12-24-2018, 8:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Mizouse View Post
Just received this response

Should be getting my letter soon right?
I got letters today. 6 days after the "processing" email. Two separate envelopes. One letter in one envelope, 3 letters in the other. I had no kickbacks or picture requests, but I submitted the volregs back in March! Interestingly the letters were from a mix of 2 volregs from March, a C&R submittal from June, and another C&R from October. All "processed" finally, at the last minute.
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  #188  
Old 12-24-2018, 8:24 PM
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I have a similar update. I received my letter notices on November 21 with 3-4 per envelope. This was 10-12 days after the DOJ called me from a private number and asked a few clarification questions.
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  #189  
Old 12-27-2018, 3:14 PM
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Originally Posted by reznunt View Post
So what's everyone in "purgatory" going to do after 12/31?
This is my question too since it appears likely that I'm going to have to "do" something.
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  #190  
Old 12-27-2018, 3:27 PM
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This is my question too since it appears likely that I'm going to have to "do" something.
When I talked to the DOJ in the end of November, they reiterated a few times how swamped they are and how they are trying g to do their best but it is taking time to get through the applications. If you have submitted everything and they have just been taking a while to confirm then they may approve after 12/31. However, some people have mentioned that the safest thing to do is hold the guns out of state for the time being.

Personally, if I were you, keep track and records of your submissions. You are not going to be raided for being a law abiding citizen. If you get served then you can tell the judge you did your best and the DOJ screwed up.
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  #191  
Old 12-27-2018, 4:31 PM
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When I talked to the DOJ in the end of November, they reiterated a few times how swamped they are and how they are trying g to do their best but it is taking time to get through the applications.
Makes you wonder what would have happened if they had gotten the 1.5 million AW applications they were expecting instead of the 60+ thousand that they did get. Also looks like they were not expecting anywhere near the the actual number of volregs they got.

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Old 12-28-2018, 10:54 AM
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So are you saying that my Kimber 1911 .45ACP needs to be registered as a .22LR before I can put on my .22LR slide because it was DROS'd as a .45ACP?
That's a question for the legal beagles, but I don't think so. First, you can't register two separate pistols under the same serial number.

Second, Sig, Glock and a host of others do caliber conversion kits for their pistols and they are advertised as such with Sig; not as "repair kits", but as "caliber conversion kits". Since it is only the frame/receiver that is the "firearm", then it does not matter what's on it. I don't think they'd be allowed to sell them if there were something illegal about them.

When I made the comment you quoted, I was referring to an 80% build that wasn't complete and if you wanted the exchange possibilities, the easiest way to avoid all of the conversion issues was to register it as a "multi" or "frame only" in order to build it as a multi caliber firearm. For example, if I were to register an 80% Glock or Sig frame as a frame only and did exactly what people did with the 80% AR lowers as "multis" or "frame only", then I'd have a multi caliber pistol, ie .22, 9mm, .40, .357 Sig, .45. You would still have to build the pistol IAW legal requirements, but I can't see why you couldn't.
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Old 12-28-2018, 11:45 AM
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When I made the comment you quoted, I was referring to an 80% build that wasn't complete and if you wanted the exchange possibilities, the easiest way to avoid all of the conversion issues was to register it as a "multi" or "frame only" in order to build it as a multi caliber firearm. For example, if I were to register an 80% Glock or Sig frame as a frame only and did exactly what people did with the 80% AR lowers as "multis" or "frame only", then I'd have a multi caliber pistol, ie .22, 9mm, .40, .357 Sig, .45. You would still have to build the pistol IAW legal requirements, but I can't see why you couldn't.
You say, “avoid all of the conversion issues” but it’s unclear what you’re talking about. What “issues” (i.e. penal code or regulation violations) are you avoiding?

As far as I have read, whether you DROS or vol-reg (or RAW, frankly) a firearm as multi-caliber (8888) or frame only (0000) or as a specific caliber doesn’t matter for the purposes of changing barrels/uppers/magazines at a later time so that it can use a different caliber.
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Old 12-28-2018, 12:01 PM
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You say, “avoid all of the conversion issues” but it’s unclear what you’re talking about. What “issues” (i.e. penal code or regulation violations) are you avoiding?

As far as I have read, whether you DROS or vol-reg (or RAW, frankly) a firearm as multi-caliber (8888) or frame only (0000) or as a specific caliber doesn’t matter for the purposes of changing barrels/uppers/magazines at a later time so that it can use a different caliber.
That's right, there is no law or regulation that says you can't change a caliber that I am aware of. Whatever their logic is as to multi and whatever it was marked is mostly a mystery, but they have to log the DROS as something.

If you registered as a .223 and then changed it to 300 blackout or 5.75mm Velo-dog it's pretty moot.

I think from a manufacturers standpoint they want and need to mark to remove some level of liability of conversion to a caliber it's not designed for, but that is dependent on the design and is the only practical reason for marking a firearm I can see. Maybe some safety issues when Bubba loads Velo-Dog into a 5.56 because he can't see it marked?
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Old 12-28-2018, 2:59 PM
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You say, “avoid all of the conversion issues” but it’s unclear what you’re talking about. What “issues” (i.e. penal code or regulation violations) are you avoiding?

As far as I have read, whether you DROS or vol-reg (or RAW, frankly) a firearm as multi-caliber (8888) or frame only (0000) or as a specific caliber doesn’t matter for the purposes of changing barrels/uppers/magazines at a later time so that it can use a different caliber.
Sorry for the confusion. I was referencing the question he had about the Kimber, but generally. I agree with you completely, it's just he asked an unusual question, because you don't generally see a handgun registered as "multi".

That was why I referenced the legal experts. I was envisioning some clown stopping a citizen, running the number on the firearm and seeing that it was DROS'd as a .40, but now has a 9mm barrel. Then they are arrested for an illegal gun, charged with illegally manufacturing or modifying a firearm, then the poor person having to expend a huge amount of resources and money proving that he didn't do anything wrong.

In 45+ other states, no one would ever have this issue because it's absurd. But we live in the Communist State of California, so any way to shaft the citizenry is on the table.

THAT was the specific conversion issue I was alluding to.
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Old 12-28-2018, 4:15 PM
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I've mentioned in other threads, but IMO the caliber cannot be relevant to the legality of a firearm (.50BMG excepted). In many cases the DOJ does not even allow you to set a single caliber in the registration; several calibers are lumped together in a single selection. If you buy a bolt gun, ".300 BLK" is lumped together with ".300 win mag" and 3 other .300 varieties, so which is it? What would it come up as if run in AFS? I have a .300BLK AR, and my volreg receipt paper just says "300". If you sent in an AKM registration you would have chosen "7.62x54R, 7.62x39, 7.62x51, 7.62x35". So which is it? The paper would just say "762". If DOJ wanted to legally say caliber matters, they would make you be explicit, but they don't. From a certain point of view, all firearms have interchangeable barrels, it's just a matter of how easy it is.
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Old 12-28-2018, 4:36 PM
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Got my reg letters today.
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Old 01-05-2019, 8:45 PM
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Just updating for every one. FINALLY got my letter today. 10 months later. wow... lol. after the kick back for "Receiver only" and I re submitted. about 10 days.
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Old 01-06-2019, 8:41 AM
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Congrats. What were the letters for? Lower receiver? P80? AR pistol? Etc? Thanks
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Got my reg letters today.
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Old 01-06-2019, 10:30 AM
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I vol-reg'd a few 80%s in late June 2018 following what others on calguns did. Submitted the applications as receiver only, rifle, semi-automatic, US as the make, (comment - self built), multi-caliber, with my own model & serial# engraved.

Mid-December I received emails from CFARS that went to my Spam folder. After reading some posts on here saying the same thing, I looked in my spam folder & found these emails about 10 days after they were sent. I logged into my CFARS account to find the status of my vol-reg forms changed from in progress to incomplete, along with the standard comment everyone is getting:
"Verify your answer to the question "receiver only?". If the firearm is fully assembled, it is not receiver only. Please provide the caliber and barrel length of your firearm."

I simply responded with a comment "Application was correct as submitted, RECEIVER ONLY."
Within a few hours I received emails back that stated:
"The California Department of Justice has received your electronic application and will begin processing your submission. You will be notified of the results via U.S. Mail."
Status in my account changed back to in progress.
Kind of a relief for me that this went through before the end of the year.

9 days later (yesterday) I received my letters in the mail, the date at the top of the letter dated as Jan. 3 2019.
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