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  #1  
Old 08-14-2018, 7:20 PM
PicantePeperoni PicantePeperoni is offline
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Default CFARS Self Built Firearm Applications Rejected

Hello Calguns,

I'm looking for some advice as I have recently received rejections from the Cal DOJ for my voluntary registration. Admins, please feel free to move this post if this is the wrong forum for this type of question.

Back Story
I attempted to voluntary register my self built firearms a month before the July 1, 2018 deadline and just received my rejections 2 days ago. My rejections included a message that states:

"Please provide clear full-length pictures of both sides of the firearm, one close up of the serial number, magazine release, make and model. Upload these pictures to this transaction and resubmit for processing." and

and

"Please identify which caliber you would like, recorded under your name. The Automated Firearms System is only able to capture one caliber."

Tonight, I was attempting to provide the additional information that was requested but I am prevented from doing so and the following messages are displayed:

"Self-built firearms can no longer be registered using this form. Please review the Statement to Applicant for more information."

and

"Effective July 1, 2018, pursuant to California Penal Code section 29180, the sale or transfer of ownership of a self-manufactured or self-assembled firearm is prohibited. Accordingly, commencing on July 1, 2018, the DOJ will not accept a Firearm Ownership Report for a self-manufactured or self-assembled firearm. The possessor of a self-manufactured or self-assembled firearm shall submit a Unique Serial Number Application (USNA) via CFARS to be issued a unique serial number by the DOJ. If the USNA process is completed successfully, the DOJ will record the firearm in the applicant's name."

Now that we are after the deadline, it appears that I am unable to perform a volreg and my only option is to go through the USNA process.

My questions are:
1. Has any one else run into this issue? How did you resolve it? Is it possible to resolve this? The rejection message specifically states that I can resubmit my application for processing but the system prevents me. Do I need to call the DOJ in order to receive a waiver after the deadline?
2. Do I have to complete the registration process? The "Statement to Applicant' seems to indicate that the registration process is only if I intend to sell or transfer the firearm. I fully intend to keep these firearms forever but the wording is confusing to me. What are your thoughts?
3. Is there any other advice that you have for me? Am I misunderstanding any of the information they are providing?

Thank you for your time.
Picante
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  #2  
Old 08-14-2018, 10:21 PM
timdps timdps is offline
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A number of other folks have had this problem and no one has said that they resolved the problem. The suggestion has been to use the "Report an Issue" link at the CFARS Assistance Center.

This goes way beyond the published vol reg requirements and seems likely to to generate a law suit.

T

PS. has anyone succeeded in vol regging 80% firearms recently?
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Old 08-14-2018, 10:45 PM
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Were these AR pistols?
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Old 08-15-2018, 6:04 AM
PicantePeperoni PicantePeperoni is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timdps View Post
A number of other folks have had this problem and no one has said that they resolved the problem. The suggestion has been to use the "Report an Issue" link at the CFARS Assistance Center.
Thanks for the tip! I'll try that out.
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Old 08-15-2018, 6:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyHawk View Post
Were these AR pistols?
Only 2 of the firearms are pistols.
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Old 08-15-2018, 9:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timdps View Post
A number of other folks have had this problem and no one has said that they resolved the problem. The suggestion has been to use the "Report an Issue" link at the CFARS Assistance Center.

This goes way beyond the published vol reg requirements and seems likely to to generate a law suit.

T

PS. has anyone succeeded in vol regging 80% firearms recently?
Same here, online registration on 5/30/18 for my 22LR with pics. It wouldn't submit that day with "self built "receiver only no" so I put yes. Pics were fully built. I got the same rejection notice on 8/9/18 to put in "no for receiver only" and state the "cal and barrel length". Now it won't submit because of the self built. I did the Report an Issue yesterday.
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Old 08-15-2018, 10:29 AM
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I VolReg two pistols. I'm planning to sell one of the uppers. What do you guys think I should do?
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Old 08-15-2018, 4:40 PM
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Received the same message on my application. I used the report an issue link and also emailed The DOJ about how to resolve this issue. Still waiting on a word.
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Old 08-15-2018, 5:20 PM
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Can someone clarify what exactly happened because I self registered a pistol (non AW) and no picture was required.
When I registered a AW a picture was required.
So what exactly was the OP trying to register with which application.
Saying only 2 were pistols is absolutely no help. Were they AW pistols? How many total did you attemp? How many were rejected? Which application?

Quoting OP
“Please provide clear full-length pictures of both sides of the firearm, one close up of the serial number, magazine release, make and model. Upload these pictures to this transaction and resubmit for processing."

Above highlighed request would only come up in the AW process not the Vol reg.
Sounds like to me OP used the AW registration thinking it was Vol Reg.
OR:
Was this a requirement for a Vol-reg long gun? I certainly was not asked for a picture of a magazine release on my handgun vol reg or any picture for that matter.

Last edited by 21guns; 08-15-2018 at 5:42 PM..
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Old 08-15-2018, 6:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 21guns View Post
Can someone clarify what exactly happened because I self registered a pistol (non AW) and no picture was required.
When I registered a AW a picture was required.
So what exactly was the OP trying to register with which application.
Saying only 2 were pistols is absolutely no help. Were they AW pistols? How many total did you attemp? How many were rejected? Which application?

Quoting OP
“Please provide clear full-length pictures of both sides of the firearm, one close up of the serial number, magazine release, make and model. Upload these pictures to this transaction and resubmit for processing."

Above highlighed request would only come up in the AW process not the Vol reg.
Sounds like to me OP used the AW registration thinking it was Vol Reg.
OR:
Was this a requirement for a Vol-reg long gun? I certainly was not asked for a picture of a magazine release on my handgun vol reg or any picture for that matter.
I'm just as confused as you are. None of the rejection reasons that I received from the Cal DOJ are appropriate since I used the "Firearm Ownership report" and definitely did not use the "Assault Weapon Registration Form". \

From everything that I have read and heard, pictures are not required for Vol Reg and my lowers are marked as MULTI. Is it possible that I happened to get an agent that was confused as to which form he was looking at?

Nothing that I am trying to register are AW. Everything is featureless. I attempted to register 3 pistol ARs, 2 AKs, 2 308 ARs, a 22LR AR, and 3 standard ARs. I received rejections for all of them. All of the AR's were marked MULTI and those were all rejected. The AKs already had the caliber selected and those were rejected because there were no pictures.

I hope that I was able to answer your questions. Let me know if anything else is unclear.
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Old 08-16-2018, 9:31 AM
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[QUOTE=PicantePeperoni;22002202]
From everything that I have read and heard, pictures are not required for Vol Reg and my lowers are marked as MULTI. Is it possible that I happened to get an agent that was confused as to which form he was looking at?


I used the "Firearm Ownership report" form last year for my 308 and didn't send pictures. They kicked it back and said to send pics of both sides of the receiver with clear stamping and a shot of the full rifle. I did this and it went through. I do the same for my 22 and it gets kicked back and now i'm in limbo because the form no longer takes the self build
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Old 08-16-2018, 7:40 PM
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[QUOTE=bnrbnr;22004015]
Quote:
Originally Posted by PicantePeperoni View Post
I do the same for my 22 and it gets kicked back and now i'm in limbo because the form no longer takes the self build
I find it odd and concerning that the process is changing. I sure hope there is a way to resolve this quickly.
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Old 08-17-2018, 7:02 AM
walmart_ar15 walmart_ar15 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PicantePeperoni View Post

Nothing that I am trying to register are AW. Everything is featureless. I attempted to register 3 pistol ARs, 2 AKs, 2 308 ARs, a 22LR AR, and 3 standard ARs. I received rejections for all of them. All of the AR's were marked MULTI and those were all rejected. The AKs already had the caliber selected and those were rejected because there were no pictures.
Maybe an over zealous agent trying to prevent volreg of potentially "AW".

I had volreg 80% pistols, but none are AR based, and none got kicked back. All my AR based 80% were registered as BBAW. BTW how do you configure a featureless AR pistol? Probably why a picture is needed.

Since the list you presented can all be potentially "AW", the agent most likely wanted proof that they are NOT, hence the picture request. Unfortunately, pass July 1, the system changed that will no longer accept self-built volreg.

Hopefully, you have evidence that all your submission is done prior to July 1, so once DOJ catches up with all other delays, they can resolve this for you. Bet they are focusing on getting all the submission of BBAW recorded.
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Old 08-17-2018, 7:34 AM
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I'm still waiting for any response at all on two volregs. I did add in the comments that one was featureless, and the other has a fixed mag, so maybe they'll accept it like that.
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Old 08-17-2018, 7:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walmart_ar15 View Post
Maybe an over zealous agent trying to prevent volreg of potentially "AW".

I had volreg 80% pistols, but none are AR based, and none got kicked back. All my AR based 80% were registered as BBAW. BTW how do you configure a featureless AR pistol? Probably why a picture is needed.

Since the list you presented can all be potentially "AW", the agent most likely wanted proof that they are NOT, hence the picture request. Unfortunately, pass July 1, the system changed that will no longer accept self-built volreg.

Hopefully, you have evidence that all your submission is done prior to July 1, so once DOJ catches up with all other delays, they can resolve this for you. Bet they are focusing on getting all the submission of BBAW recorded.
Ah, I misspoke, the pistols are fixedmag with the MagLock.

I understand that they want to make sure it's not a BBAW but I didn't think that was a requirement of the law that I am trying to abide by. It seems like unnecessary steps to hinder the process.

I have some proof but I can only hope that I won't need it.
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Old 08-17-2018, 8:09 AM
walmart_ar15 walmart_ar15 is offline
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Not trying to defend DOJ here.... But here is situation the agent is facing.

There is no evidence showing the registration request is for legal weapon. If he/she were to accept and register it, and later the owner is caught with possession of illegal AW, defense lawyer can argue that DOJ had allow the weapon to be registered, thus, endorse the possession. That would end badly for the agent.

Now if you had commented that the weapon's status, featureless, fixed, blah, blah, then at least the agent can claim you perjured yourself on the form and DA can now slap you with perjury and illegal possession. Think of it as CYA from DOJ
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Old 08-17-2018, 8:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walmart_ar15 View Post
Not trying to defend DOJ here.... But here is situation the agent is facing.

There is no evidence showing the registration request is for legal weapon. If he/she were to accept and register it, and later the owner is caught with possession of illegal AW, defense lawyer can argue that DOJ had allow the weapon to be registered, thus, endorse the possession. That would end badly for the agent.

Now if you had commented that the weapon's status, featureless, fixed, blah, blah, then at least the agent can claim you perjured yourself on the form and DA can now slap you with perjury and illegal possession. Think of it as CYA from DOJ
Totally understand their position and your thoughts however, at the time of registration one month prior to the BBAW deadline, the rifles would be lawful regardless if they were BB or featureless. Why should I need to abide by future laws at the time of registration? Furthermore, I didn't think the "ghost gun" bill required that the firearms be lawful but that they be registered and entered into the system for tracking. It seems to me that the requirements that are being imposed upon us do not fit the law.
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Old 08-17-2018, 8:53 AM
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Does anyone have a phone number for the DOJ where I can talk to a person? I tried the (916) 227-7527 number on the CFARS website and I couldn't find a menu option to speak with a person.
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Old 08-19-2018, 6:52 PM
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I've run into the same issue, except my rejection message in CFARS was:

"Please identify which caliber you would like, recorded under your name. The Automated Firearms System is only able to capture one caliber."
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Old 08-20-2018, 9:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by byronwrites View Post
I've run into the same issue, except my rejection message in CFARS was:

"Please identify which caliber you would like, recorded under your name. The Automated Firearms System is only able to capture one caliber."
Have you been able to update the caliber in your registration?

What's odd is that I know someone who volgreg'd their p80 as multicaliber, but they did provide pictures even though it wasn't required and the got approved.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
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Old 08-20-2018, 9:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GunnEnvy View Post
Have you been able to update the caliber in your registration?

What's odd is that I know someone who volgreg'd their p80 as multicaliber, but they did provide pictures even though it wasn't required and the got approved.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
I got the same “please identify your caliber” message because I chose interchangeable barrels for my P80 builds. Same as the OP, when trying to make changes I get a “form no longer valid” message.

Has anybody received a response after reporting an issue?
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Old 08-20-2018, 9:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GunnEnvy View Post
Have you been able to update the caliber in your registration?

What's odd is that I know someone who volgreg'd their p80 as multicaliber, but they did provide pictures even though it wasn't required and the got approved.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
I have not been able to update the forums due to the date lock on self manufacturing. I have submitted a request for support stating that I would like to provide the required information per the request. I guess we will see what happens

Do you know if that user was approved recently or months ago?
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Old 08-20-2018, 9:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 69ELKY View Post
I got the same “please identify your caliber” message because I chose interchangeable barrels for my P80 builds. Same as the OP, when trying to make changes I get a “form no longer valid” message.

Has anybody received a response after reporting an issue?
Submitted mine tonight and I'll keep you posted.
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Old 08-20-2018, 9:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PicantePeperoni View Post
I have not been able to update the forums due to the date lock on self manufacturing. I have submitted a request for support stating that I would like to provide the required information per the request. I guess we will see what happens

Do you know if that user was approved recently or months ago?
I believe he got approval in late May

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
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Old 08-21-2018, 7:59 PM
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how stupid is it that "AFS is only able to accept one caliber", yet the very form they provide lumps calibers together and has 'interchangeable barrels' as an option. It's maddening.
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Old 08-21-2018, 8:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sbo80 View Post
how stupid is it that "AFS is only able to accept one caliber", yet the very form they provide lumps calibers together and has 'interchangeable barrels' as an option. It's maddening.
I find it more infuriating that I have a friend with a "multi" marked receiver and he was required to change to "interchangeable barrels"
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Old 08-21-2018, 9:13 PM
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I reported the issue online August 13th with no response. Yesterday I responded to all of the incomplete emails to firearms.bureau@doj.ca.gov stating my "Form Invalid" error message when making the requested changes.

Today I received a phone call from CA DOJ. She basically said that the deadline was 7/1 and that I would need to submit a request for a unique S/N. I told her that my initial application submission date was 6/2 and that I was well within the timeframe. There was a long pause as if she didn't know how to respond. She said she would have to send to her manager for review. My boss then came up behind me so I had to end the call.

My applications probably got moved to the slow pile. I submitted my BBAW apps on 6/2 as well and haven't heard anything. I wonder if the Volreg's are holding it up for review.
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Old 08-23-2018, 9:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GunnEnvy View Post
I believe he got approval in late May

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
Too be clear he submitted the application online and choose interchangeable barrels.

Are the folks getting punt backs registration through snail mail or through online and choose "interchangeable barrel"?

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
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Old 08-23-2018, 5:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GunnEnvy View Post
Too be clear he submitted the application online and choose interchangeable barrels.

Are the folks getting punt backs registration through snail mail or through online and choose "interchangeable barrel"?

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
I received a punt back via email because I chose "interchangeable barrel" for my "multi" caliber marked lowers.
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Old 08-23-2018, 6:45 PM
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Did you get a email saying it was kicked back? Or did you get a message on the cfars site itself? I submitted my form months ago to volreg and haven’t heard anything?!
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Old 08-23-2018, 6:58 PM
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Quote:
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Did you get a email saying it was kicked back? Or did you get a message on the cfars site itself? I submitted my form months ago to volreg and haven’t heard anything?!
It was an email to the email address I provided at the time that I registered my cfars account. The CFARS account did not show anything g besides "in processing" on my transaction history until I received my rejection notices.
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Old 08-23-2018, 9:21 PM
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any of you wondering yet why you even participated in the registration process???
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Old 08-24-2018, 8:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PicantePeperoni View Post
I received a punt back via email because I chose "interchangeable barrel" for my "multi" caliber marked lowers.
I’m in the same boat as you. Received an incomplete application because I selected interchangeable barrel( lower is engraved multi). Reported an issue same day. Still no response.
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Old 08-25-2018, 6:15 AM
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I don't understand why they are kicking yours back. Plenty of us put interchangeable barrels and got registration letters just fine.

This whole thing is flawed. Should be grounds for a good lawsuit.
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Old 08-25-2018, 6:26 AM
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I've read and reread the Chapter 41 DOJ code regarding self assembled firearms and the relevant sections do not state that we need to provide photographic proof of the serilization. 5508 subdevision (c) is very clear that a firearm that is entered into the system is exempt from unique serial number requirements set forth by the regulations.

They should have accepted my applications because the reasons they gave are related to the new USNA process post July 1, 2018.
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Old 08-25-2018, 7:14 AM
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In case anyone is wondering.. here is a vol reg letter I received a few years back with multi selected for the caliber.. I have since had to put a new serial number so this info is worthless

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Old 08-25-2018, 7:15 AM
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Got an email yesterday. They want pictures
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Old 08-25-2018, 8:00 AM
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Caliguy, the letter I got a couple of weeks ago for 2 rifles marked multi looks identical.
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Old 08-25-2018, 8:56 AM
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I submitted a volreg in February for an 80%. I’ve sent 4 emails asking about the status. No response.

No issues in my log. No emails, no letters.
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Old 08-26-2018, 6:31 PM
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Same boat... Vol reg, featureless, lower marked "multi", selected interchangable barrels and DOJ sent an email asking for a specific caliber and requested the same photos as their AW registering regs. Submitted "issue" using their website noting the specific verbiage for the rejection issue today. I Also noted in their response box that photos were requested by DOJ; however, these builds were featureless and were not required by Penal Code or CCR... We'll see if I get booted to the end of the line or completely rejected for submitting facts...
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