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  #121  
Old 11-17-2016, 10:25 AM
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27 CFR 478.92 (1) You, as a licensed manufacturer or licensed importer of firearms, must legibly identify each firearm manufactured or imported as follows:

U.S.C. 923(i) Licensed importers and licensed manufacturers shall identify by means of a serial number engraved or cast on the receiver or frame of the weapon, in such manner as the Attorney General shall by regulations prescribe, each firearm imported or manufactured by such importer or manufacturer.

Does an individual making lower automatically considered as "license" manufacturer? Or the act of selling make you a "license" manufacturer? Does giving it away to friend and family also be considered "license" manufacturer? Sorry, I am not familiar with how the law is interpret.

26 U.S.C. 5822 No person shall make ...
describe the requirement to be a license manufacturer itself if I read it correctly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Junkie View Post
My impression is that you can't manufacture for the purpose of sale, and if you later decide to sell it's legal (if properly marked).
So it is all about the intention at the time of making similar to how one sell pistol that isn't on the safety list? One may acquires it thru legal allowance to try but could sell it if one doesn't like it later on?
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Last edited by SweetPotato; 11-17-2016 at 10:29 AM..
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  #122  
Old 11-17-2016, 11:40 AM
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I'm not sure where exactly it says that an unlicensed personal manufacturer has to mark it if they decide to sell it, but that was my impression.

And yes, it has to do with intent at the time. Of course, if you start buying one every month and then deciding you don't like it, that'll start to be a problem.
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  #123  
Old 11-17-2016, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Junkie View Post
I'm not sure where exactly it says that an unlicensed personal manufacturer has to mark it if they decide to sell it, but that was my impression.

And yes, it has to do with intent at the time. Of course, if you start buying one every month and then deciding you don't like it, that'll start to be a problem.
LOL, I don't sell guns. As far as marking for transfer, no dealer will do it without any marking I think.
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  #124  
Old 11-17-2016, 12:35 PM
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I have also attempted to search for my exact question in other forums, so I'll throw it out here. If someone can re-direct me, I'd appreciate it.

I relocated out of Cali in 2015, leaving a couple of INCOMPLETE 80 percenters behind with family, and now want to get them out. As they are not technically firearms, can they legally be sent to me here in Idaho? Don't want to cause my family or myself any problems. Just unsure...

Anyone?
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  #125  
Old 11-17-2016, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Blackntan View Post
I have also attempted to search for my exact question in other forums, so I'll throw it out here. If someone can re-direct me, I'd appreciate it.

I relocated out of Cali in 2015, leaving a couple of INCOMPLETE 80 percenters behind with family, and now want to get them out. As they are not technically firearms, can they legally be sent to me here in Idaho? Don't want to cause my family or myself any problems. Just unsure...

Anyone?
If they are paperweights then they can be sent in the mail. If complete stripped lower then all normal rules apply.
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  #126  
Old 11-17-2016, 7:20 PM
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Quote:
If you intend to register them as assault weapons, then they need to be made before 01-01-2017
I did not know about that. So does the entire rifle have to be built and finished by that date or can you (if you wanted to register one) just register your stripped lower as AW and build it up later? Or does the registration require a full list of all the parts or something? I have some lowers and was thinking about "Maybe" registering only one of them (I know do not comply and all that), but register one of them so I can have all the bells and whistles and standard mag release just for a Home Defense rifle. But had planned on building it later, not before Jan first.
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  #127  
Old 11-18-2016, 8:29 AM
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Question Registering an AR Pistol built from 80% as an AW?

Hello Calguns legal experts. I have a situation and have been looking for information but I get confusing often contradictory advice from people I ask. I have an AR pistol built from an 80% lower. What is the process for registering it as an AW? All input is highly appreciated.
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  #128  
Old 11-18-2016, 10:02 AM
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The DOJ hasn't put that info out yet. We'll have to wait and see.
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  #129  
Old 11-18-2016, 11:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RuggedJay View Post
Hello Calguns legal experts.
First mistake...

Quote:
I have a situation and have been looking for information but I get confusing often contradictory advice from people I ask. I have an AR pistol built from an 80% lower. What is the process for registering it as an AW? All input is highly appreciated.


No, seriously, I have two myself. I have not decided whether to register or fix the magazines.
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  #130  
Old 11-19-2016, 1:44 AM
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Is the date 1.1.17 deadline for our BB rifles to be converted to featureless or maglock to be compliant as NON-AW status?


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  #131  
Old 11-19-2016, 2:01 AM
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Default Registering an AR Pistol built from 80% as an AW?

Do you know what constitutes an AR pistol to be an AW?

Never mind found answer to my ?

Having to do with magazine detached from the grip of the pistol

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  #132  
Old 11-19-2016, 2:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tokyodrftr View Post
Is the date 1.1.17 deadline for our BB rifles to be converted to featureless or maglock to be compliant as NON-AW status?


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01/01/2017 is the purchase ban on any centerfire rifle capable of accepting a detachable magazine with any "evil" features.

You have until 01/01/2018 to register already-possessed BB rifles as "Assault Weapons" or convert to featureless or convert the rifle using a device that fits the new definition of a non-detachable magazine.
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  #133  
Old 11-19-2016, 2:09 AM
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Thankyou


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  #134  
Old 11-19-2016, 5:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RuggedJay View Post
Hello Calguns legal experts. I have a situation and have been looking for information but I get confusing often contradictory advice from people I ask. I have an AR pistol built from an 80% lower. What is the process for registering it as an AW? All input is highly appreciated.
First issue...

In order to register it or transfer it, it must be properly engraved/marked.

Markings must be to a minimum depth of .003 inch and in a print size no smaller than 1/16 inch.
Markings must use Roman letters (A, B, C, etc.) and Arabic numerals (1, 2, 3, etc).

Markings must include:
1) Serial Numbers (can not be just a name, must contain numerals)
2) Model
3) Caliber
4) Manufacturer's name
5) City & State where the Manufacturer is located

Since you made the receiver, you are the manufacturer.
So, your name (first & last) and city/state needs to be engraved on it.

If you do not properly mark/engrave the firearm before 07-01-2018, then you must apply to CA DOJ BOF for the required markings for home built firearms. [PC 29180(b)]

Starting 01-01-2019, possession of a home built firearm without identifying information will be illegal. [PC 29180(f)]
In addition, it will also be illegal to transfer home built firearms, unless it is to surrender them to law enforcement. [PC 29180(d)]


Second issue...

Wait until 2017, when CA DOJ BOF activates the 2017 assault weapons registration website.
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  #135  
Old 11-22-2016, 8:56 PM
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Default Non-AW 80%

Just to clarify....

An 80% NOT going to be registered as an aw (a 1911 pattern) needs only to be engraved to ATF specs, correct? No volreg, paperwork, etc.?
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  #136  
Old 11-22-2016, 9:08 PM
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It will need to be entered in the registry(volreg) before the new law goes into effect OR you will need to apply to DOJ for a serial number...
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  #137  
Old 11-22-2016, 9:09 PM
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Quote:
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It will need to be entered in the registry(volreg) before the new law goes into effect OR you will need to apply to DOJ for a serial number...


PC section?
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  #138  
Old 11-22-2016, 9:11 PM
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I submitted this morning. With 3x pictures as described. I'll let you guys know if anything goes weird.
well, still "in-progress", so they haven't rejected me outright, but sure is taking a long time.
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  #139  
Old 11-22-2016, 9:18 PM
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well, still "in-progress", so they haven't rejected me outright, but sure is taking a long time.


Same for me....just waiting for DOJ letter...
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  #140  
Old 11-22-2016, 9:38 PM
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How do you submit photos again? Does the online form allow you to upload photos? I take it there are no official guidelines on what needs to be shown in the photos? As in, if I wanted to build a single shot 80 pistol, I guess I should show all the single shot components?
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  #141  
Old 11-22-2016, 9:41 PM
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Originally Posted by shaocaholica View Post
How do you submit photos again? Does the online form allow you to upload photos? I take it there are no official guidelines on what needs to be shown in the photos? As in, if I wanted to build a single shot 80 pistol, I guess I should show all the single shot components?


If you read my above post, it outlines how the DOJ asked photos to be formatted.

Yes, the online form will accept file uploads (.mpeg, .gif, .jpeg, etc)

You should. I submitted my photo with an intact gas system and no single shot sled (even though I built it that way - I was in the process of converting). I did have a dowel in the buffer to render it single shot.
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  #142  
Old 11-22-2016, 9:46 PM
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I take it if I need to meet the 12/31/2016 deadline for 2017 AW reg, I need to submit by 12/31/2016? Even if the approval comes after 1/1/2017, I should still be good right so long as its approved since I would have technically owned the gun on 12/31/2016 as proofed by my submission and photos.
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  #143  
Old 11-22-2016, 9:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shaocaholica View Post
I take it if I need to meet the 12/31/2016 deadline for 2017 AW reg, I need to submit by 12/31/2016? Even if the approval comes after 1/1/2017, I should still be good right so long as its approved since I would have technically owned the gun on 12/31/2016 as proofed by my submission and photos.


I am assuming that what you said in this quote is true, but that is all I have - an assumption. I am sure you know how stupid the DOJ is, so we'll see.

But, like I said, I am following that plan, yes.
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  #144  
Old 11-22-2016, 9:53 PM
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Well, good luck to us all.

BTW, does anyone know how it worked during SSE days with glock mags? I need to make a 1 shot glock 17 sled for 9mm AR lower. I assume I could use whatever they used for off roster glocks back in 2014. Maybe just stuff some crap into a 10rd glock mag?
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  #145  
Old 11-22-2016, 10:25 PM
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Just watch. The photo requirement in OP's edit is going to turn in to not being allowed to perform maintenance or repairs, as that would constitute altering the "registered configuration."

You can forget something as crazy as adding an accessory, and Lord have mercy should you cerakote it.

My own edit: by de facto disallowing repairs, the logic would be that the evil AWs rot away and disappear in time, all under the veneer of a generous registration program that allows us to keep our property.

Last edited by 2Aallday; 11-22-2016 at 10:31 PM..
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  #146  
Old 11-22-2016, 10:27 PM
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Isn't Volreg the same as DROS? You're allowed to alter a DROSd gun.

Anyway who's going to check?
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  #147  
Old 11-22-2016, 10:28 PM
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Quote:
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Isn't Volreg the same as DROS? You're allowed to alter a DROSd gun.


Basically, yes.

I don't buy into the idea of not being able to alter the gun.
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  #148  
Old 11-23-2016, 7:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Aallday View Post
Just watch. The photo requirement in OP's edit is going to turn in to not being allowed to perform maintenance or repairs, as that would constitute altering the "registered configuration."

You can forget something as crazy as adding an accessory, and Lord have mercy should you cerakote it.

My own edit: by de facto disallowing repairs, the logic would be that the evil AWs rot away and disappear in time, all under the veneer of a generous registration program that allows us to keep our property.
Let's not go crazy now. What we are trying to accomplish here is simple and straightforward.
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  #149  
Old 11-23-2016, 8:18 AM
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Seriously. Gun community fear mongering is the worst. I'm not going into 2017 making decisions based on unrealistic worst case hypothetical scenarios.
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  #150  
Old 11-23-2016, 9:16 AM
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no, democrat fearmongering is the worst. We fear monger, and a few people buy too many guns and some laws are passed we have to fight in courts.

Democrats fear monger, and 4 police get shot to death in Texas and Louisiana, businesses in poor communities are burned to the ground, and traffic is disrupted in major population centers for weeks on end.
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  #151  
Old 11-23-2016, 1:32 PM
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Honestly I think its repulsive on both sides -and- the gun community.
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  #152  
Old 11-24-2016, 8:10 AM
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I'm still curious as to whether I need to VolReg before RAWing. I'd rather not...
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  #153  
Old 11-24-2016, 8:23 AM
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I want to say you don't need to. It's not like RAWing is a privilege. I'm assuming the state wants you to register as opposed to having a potential unregged illegal AW out there.
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  #154  
Old 11-24-2016, 8:40 AM
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If i was planning on rawing an 80er in 2017 (which im not)id absolutley volreg before the end of this year.
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  #155  
Old 11-24-2016, 1:28 PM
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Originally Posted by tokyodrftr View Post
I found an engraving shop that will mark all my 80% lowers.


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Hey Tokyodrftr, what shop you using for engraving your 80%s? I'm looking for a place in SoCal. Thanks
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  #156  
Old 11-24-2016, 1:38 PM
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Hey Tokyodrftr, what shop you using for engraving your 80%s? I'm looking for a place in SoCal. Thanks


I don't know where you are. But I am up the coast now. Place in Pismo beach. Does a lot of gun engraving. So very gun friendly. $15 a lower. Going to do a run of six
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  #157  
Old 11-24-2016, 6:08 PM
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Hey Tokyodrftr, what shop you using for engraving your 80%s? I'm looking for a place in SoCal. Thanks
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s....php?t=1134661

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Old 11-24-2016, 6:18 PM
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Originally Posted by target_shot View Post
Just to clarify....

An 80% NOT going to be registered as an aw (a 1911 pattern) needs only to be engraved to ATF specs, correct? No volreg, paperwork, etc.?
Any home built firearms that are engraved with the manufacturer, model and serial number by 6/30/2018 that meet BATF's requirements do not need to be registered if not considered an AW.

Any home built firearms made or engraved on or after 7/1/2018 will need to be engraved with the information obtained from the CA DOJ. When you apply for this information it will be registered as a non AW.

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Old 11-24-2016, 7:00 PM
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You're getting cut and dry answers and honestly, it's not really cut and dry. I see it both ways.

Read this last page, in particular:
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...194330&page=16

I tend to agree with the notion that if you serialize it yourself, you don't need to get a DOJ number or register it in non-AW design.

Lots of others disagree and say you need a DOJ number or to have the firearm added to the "centralized list" (I.E., voluntary registration) to avoid needing a DOJ issued number.

Read the thread, or at least that last page, in detail and then make your decision as to the level of risk you're willing to accept.
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Old 11-25-2016, 11:09 AM
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I take it if I need to meet the 12/31/2016 deadline for 2017 AW reg, I need to submit by 12/31/2016? Even if the approval comes after 1/1/2017, I should still be good right so long as its approved since I would have technically owned the gun on 12/31/2016 as proofed by my submission and photos.
Do they actually issue a DROS? I would think the clock would start the day they create that, rather than the day you submitted. Though for the purpose of providing proof you had the firearm built prior to 2017, I would imagine the simple proof of submitting photos and paperwork prior to that date would suffice...?
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