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  #41  
Old 10-24-2016, 2:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Junkie View Post
You said "one was submitted as a complete rifle" in the first post sso I thought one was a rifle.


Totally understandable, my mistake. Corrected.


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  #42  
Old 10-24-2016, 2:50 PM
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Originally Posted by target_shot View Post
I used CRIS. The program allows the "User" and "Admin" to both add comments.

I received an email to reopen my application because it was labeled incomplete. Low and behold, "Admin" entered a comment telling me to submit photos as outlined above. It looks like the online submission has an "upload file" area, that I presume is for photos.

I'll take them when I get home tonight, and resubmit.
Are you submitting photos of your single shot setup? How did you do it? Replace the buffer with a plug And use a zero round msg?
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  #43  
Old 10-24-2016, 2:52 PM
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Originally Posted by ScottyXbones View Post
Are you submitting photos of your single shot setup? How did you do it? Replace the buffer with a plug And use a zero round msg?


I put a dowel behind the buffer. When I built it, I built with a sled, but subsequently sold the sled.

I left the magwell empty. Hope that works.
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  #44  
Old 10-25-2016, 7:42 AM
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Why did you sell the sled? You should keep all those single shot parts forever or at least have receipts for them.
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  #45  
Old 10-25-2016, 8:04 AM
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Originally Posted by GunnerMichael View Post
"I can purchase an 80% lower, mill it out, then build the AR Pistol as a single shot. At this point it would be a legal single shot AR Pistol. Am I correct?"

What about this part? This only pertains to current law.

Do I need to serialize it to be legal after 2018? I though there was already a law about home serializing 80% builds.
I don't know why you have to make it a Single Shot...your building it and keeping it, right? Gun stores and private sales convert it to single shot(SSE) to bypass the handgun roster for sale or transfer. Stores can NO longer do that anymore. SSE is ban. That's why you can't buy them in the store anymore. Single Shot Exemption is history. Before once u own the AR Pistol u can removed the SS and back to semi with bullet button and 10rd mag. Hope that help understanding all these process(hurdles).

Like many said, the new law will take effect, it will create more hurdles to go through.
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  #46  
Old 10-25-2016, 8:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bustacaps View Post
I don't know why you have to make it a Single Shot...your building it and keeping it, right? Gun stores and private sales convert it to single shot(SSE) to bypass the handgun roster for sale or transfer. Stores can NO longer do that anymore. SSE is ban. That's why you can't buy them in the store anymore. Single Shot Exemption is history. Before once u own the AR Pistol u can removed the SS and back to semi with bullet button and 10rd mag. Hope that help understanding all these process(hurdles).

Like many said, the new law will take effect, it will create more hurdles to go through.
Single shot also applies to manufacturing which is what this thread is about (80%). It doesn't come up often in discussion because its a very niche topic but you do have to pinky swear you built it first as single shot in your garage before converting to semi. Something about manufacturing(you are the manufacturer in this case) an 'unsafe' handgun if you build it as semi auto from the get go.

I would recommend keeping all of the parts used to make it single shot and dated receipts. At least until statute of limitations passes although by then you'd probably forgot you had those parts. It shouldn't be a huge burden.
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  #47  
Old 10-25-2016, 8:41 AM
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Calgunners also debate what makes a single shot a single shot. Some argue that an upper with a gas system is semi-auto period, even if the lower has zero capability of accepting more than one round. I don't think any of us really know the answer to that.

Flowcharts and PC aren't so helpful, since they don't really define semi auto. not really. If they did, there woul dbe no debate on whether gas system = semi auto.
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  #48  
Old 10-25-2016, 8:55 AM
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Why?
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  #49  
Old 10-25-2016, 10:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shaocaholica View Post
Why did you sell the sled? You should keep all those single shot parts forever or at least have receipts for them.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Spyder View Post
Why?


+1 on why?
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  #50  
Old 10-25-2016, 10:50 AM
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Thanks. They are really on it for the pictures. Maybe they are worried about people registering taco chips and the like...

Can you let us know how the reciever-only reg goes? Nothing saying you aren't going to have a RAW capable rifle built by December 26 (someone gifting you the upper for Christmas, etc), so I can't imagine having trouble registering as RAW next year, but still, reciever-only is reciever-only....
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  #51  
Old 10-25-2016, 8:02 PM
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Tagged for updates.
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  #52  
Old 10-26-2016, 7:54 AM
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Hey Target shot,

Did you submit 2x on one fee? or did you have to pay $19 each?
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  #53  
Old 10-26-2016, 8:11 AM
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I paid $19.00 for 2 VolRegs and 7 intrafamial transfers.

When done through CRIS, DOJ counts the $19 fee as 1 "session", just like a DROS. You can do as many forms as you want, I suspect....

The only caveat is that the LE Gun Release Form is $20, so I bet that this form has its own fee.


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  #54  
Old 10-26-2016, 8:13 AM
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Perfect.

Let me know if you need to pay another $19 when you upload those pics
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  #55  
Old 10-26-2016, 8:27 AM
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You don't

They do not "reject", they just say "incomplete". Just click the "resubmit" button, and it becomes active again


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  #56  
Old 10-26-2016, 9:00 PM
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Following for info.
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  #57  
Old 10-28-2016, 10:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by target_shot View Post
You don't

They do not "reject", they just say "incomplete". Just click the "resubmit" button, and it becomes active again


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I've seen claims that they'll reject if you try to register a semiauto handgun
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  #58  
Old 10-28-2016, 1:58 PM
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I've seen claims that they'll reject if you try to register a semiauto handgun


I agree. I was speaking about their procedure if the user fails to submit pictures.
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  #59  
Old 10-29-2016, 12:16 PM
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  #60  
Old 10-29-2016, 1:15 PM
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How long after you submitted it did the doj request pics
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  #61  
Old 10-30-2016, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by ifilef View Post

As to the former, it would be, in my opinion, manifestly unfair to builders not to permit them to register their builds as AW. One might also think it's in the interest of the State to maximize registrations to eventually reduce their numbers through attrition.

If I were to build, I'd have everything purchased and built by the end of this year, or, at least, have lowers purchased by end of the year for sure, and for obvious reasons. Any lower purchased in 2017 for a build that you wish to register as an AW will likely result in a rejection of the registration and potential criminal charges for the felony of manufacturing an AW.
Right, so you're getting to the heart of my initial concern. I totally doubt they would try to block ALL ar builds ever started from a stripped lower from registering, but there still could be some weird legal gray area to these firearms.

As you suggested, my plan is to have my build done by December 23. From there, I will take pictures and include the receipts for all parts in a letter that I will Fedex to myself (therefor proving that it had all the features of an AW before the EOY). Maybe a little excessive, but if I ever need it, I'll have a notarized, un-opened document proving that I owned the AW before 2017.

Call me paranoid, but you never know. That language of the law is, in fact, pretty vague for builds.
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  #62  
Old 10-30-2016, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Redwoodm4 View Post
How long after you submitted it did the doj request pics
Based on post timing it sounds like a few hours after
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  #63  
Old 10-30-2016, 12:22 PM
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I don't even keep track of the names of people I buy guns from, let alone their addresses. I don't imagine most people do. Or do I just give the FFL info?
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I will never buy another Spikes Tactical item, as I have a 5.45 marked barrel from them with a 5.56 bore that keyholed at 25 yards, and they wouldn't replace it.

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  #64  
Old 10-30-2016, 1:20 PM
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As far as we can tell next year a bullet button means nothing.

In California if you have ANY evil features and a detachable mag (this year) / non-fixed mag (next year) it's an AW so yes, if you have a pistol grip and a BB it needs to be registered. The feds allowed one evil feature (with a slightly different list of features), which might be what you're thinking of.
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  #65  
Old 10-30-2016, 1:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Line View Post
If someone had an AR with a fixed stock, no flash hider, but a pistol grip, if I install a bullet button do I have to register as an RAW?
The pistol grip defines it as an AW in 2016 if it also has a detachable magazine.
That configuration must have a BB to be legal in 2016.
Effective 2017, with or without the BB, it will be defined as an AW and will be subject to registration.

Important: To be eligible for registration, the gun must have been LAWFULLY POSSESSED in 2016... without the BB, it is not currently in a legal configuration and thus will not be eligible for registration next year.
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  #66  
Old 10-30-2016, 3:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Blue Line View Post
Cokebottle you said without a BB it isnt eligible for AW status, even if featureless. I know the wording for the law is vauge and undefined at this point, but are we assuming bullet buttons will be irrelevant and not used next year? I think Im going to start sending you PMs instead of posting on the forum
An AW (rifle) is defined as:

Quote:
30515(a) Notwithstanding PC section 30510, assault weapon shall also mean the following: Rifles
1. A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine CCR 11 § 5469 (a) and any one of the following:
A pistol grip CCR 11 § 5469 (d)
A thumbhole stock. CCR 11 § 5469 (e)
A folding or telescoping stock.
A grenade launcher or flare launcher.
A flash suppressor. CCR 11 § 5469 (b)
A forward pistol grip. CCR 11 § 5469 (c)

2. A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has a fixed magazine with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.

3. A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has an overall length of less than 30 inches
The BB itself is not an evil feature, so it has no bearing on the above.
Note that for #2 and #3, the BB does not protect against AW status... in fact, quite the opposite, if you have a BB and insert an 11rd magazine, even if the rifle is completely featureless, it creates an AW.


The new law states that IF you legally possessed the rifle in 2001-2016, it must be registered (if it is an AW under 2017 law).
IF you currently have a basic M16-A1 and have removed the flash hider, just having the pistol grip would be enough to fall under class-1 UNLESS you have a bullet button.

Effective Jan 1, the bullet button no longer satisfies as an exemption to the above "the capacity to accept a detachable magazine"
So as of Jan 1, ANY features build that does not have the magazine fixed in some other manner (that requires disassembly of the action to remove) will be considered an AW whether it has a BB or not.


The issue it seems that you are describing is that you PRESENTLY are in possession of a basic A1/A2 form rifle with a pistol grip, and without a bullet button.
If so, that is an illegal AW today, unless, judging by your username, you are a cop AND you have already registered it as an AW via a letter from your department using department letterhead.
If it is not presently RAW, even if you are a cop, it is currently illegal and legally not qualified for registration next year.



For 2017, the definition of AW is not changing. It remains as it was in the quoted section of the law.
If a rifle is featureless today, it is not required to be registered next year (and it can never be converted to a featured form).
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A just government will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just government. If a small minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people, the RKBA of the whole is our insurance against their success.

Last edited by Cokebottle; 10-30-2016 at 3:48 PM..
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  #67  
Old 10-30-2016, 6:48 PM
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Default Submitted a VolReg....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Redwoodm4 View Post
How long after you submitted it did the doj request pics


About 12hrs. I meant to post this thread the night before I actually did, but forgot.

Still waiting for word....anxiously.....
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  #68  
Old 10-30-2016, 7:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by target_shot View Post
About 12hrs. I meant to post this thread the night before I actually did, but forgot.

Still waiting for word....anxiously.....
Looks like the DROS system flags anything listed as a single shot.
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Old 11-01-2016, 2:28 PM
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Update: Recived an email that said they were reviewing my application. Looks like they have made some edits to the form.

I was told that I would be notified of the results via US Mail. Weird, considering that they have my email, and all prior communication has been done over email. I guess we'll see....

EDIT: Also told that volregs should be completed within a total of 30 days, unless a background denial/delay happens.
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  #70  
Old 11-01-2016, 2:34 PM
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Let us know the outcome.
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Old 11-01-2016, 2:35 PM
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Old 11-01-2016, 2:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Junkie View Post
Why did you submit the rifle as single shot?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninety View Post
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  #73  
Old 11-01-2016, 3:07 PM
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Did they cite you PC where "pictures" we're required? AFIAK there is no PC requiring you to do so.
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Old 11-01-2016, 3:08 PM
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Quote:
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Did they cite you PC where "pictures" we're required? AFIAK there is no PC requiring you to do so.
Nope. I am not aware of any PC requiring pictures either.....

They are the DOJ. They can do whatever they want because they have total control on firearms in CA, regardless of law
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Old 11-01-2016, 3:14 PM
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I would tell them to pound sand personally. You didn't put up an argument on why pics are needed? I would have asked for a supervisor to call me and cite PC as to where I needed to supply pictures. Don't make it easy for them. I'm sure they can look up your background very easily.

Just my opinion.
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Old 11-01-2016, 3:16 PM
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Quote:
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I would tell them to pound sand personally. You didn't put up an argument on why pics are needed? I would have asked for a supervisor to call me and cite PC as to where I needed to supply pictures. Don't make it easy for them. I'm sure they can look up your background very easily.

Just my opinion.
I can understand why. No, I did not argue with them.

They want pictures? Fine by me. I'm changing the hardware around anyways
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Old 11-01-2016, 3:25 PM
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Supplying info without required PC is just helping DOJ with "underground" regulation. Too bad CGN lawyers won't do pro bono for stuff like this. At least then if asked for pictures one could forward DOJ to contact them and hopefully stop the "provide pics" or else threat...
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Old 11-02-2016, 10:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cokebottle View Post
For 2017, the definition of AW is not changing. It remains as it was in the quoted section of the law.
If a rifle is featureless today, it is not required to be registered next year (and it can never be converted to a featured form).
How would the govt know if it's featureless today vs making it featureless next year prior to the end of the RAW deadline?

What I'm getting at is...if someone currently owns an AR with features AND a BB....by end of 2017 you'll either have to make it a RAW or convert it to a featureless rifle by the end of 2017. Correct?
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Old 11-02-2016, 10:41 AM
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The law states that if you possessed it as an AW (presumably future AW) you must register it. ifilef interprets that to mean even if it's now featureless/fixed mag/etc, but for some reason claims that selling it means you don't have to register it (even though there's no exemption for that).

AFAIK they have no way of knowing when you made it an AW. Getting caught manufacturing an AW is very bad though.
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Old 11-02-2016, 11:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Junkie View Post
The law states that if you possessed it as an AW (presumably future AW) you must register it. ifilef interprets that to mean even if it's now featureless/fixed mag/etc, but for some reason claims that selling it means you don't have to register it (even though there's no exemption for that).

AFAIK they have no way of knowing when you made it an AW. Getting caught manufacturing an AW is very bad though.
My point is that, AFAIK, by end of next year (2017) you either have to:

1. Register your "featured" semi automatic rifle as RAW
2. Convert your CURRENTLY (as in from now till 12/31/16) owned "featured" semi automatic rifle with BB to a featureless semi automatic weapon (and can then lose the BB)
3. Transfer or sell your CURRENTLY (as in from now till 12/31/16) owned "featured" semi automatic rifle with BB to someone out of state.
4. Do nothing....and see what happens.

Sound about right?
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